[QUOTE=Sweat-n-Grease;90471]I was in the reserves and got activated after the infamous Gulf of Tonkin "incident’ (remember the flawed intelligence or was it an outright lie?), requested orders to Flight Training and was accepted. After receiving your Wings of Gold you have an obligation, an obligation I never even thought of not making, in fact none of us back then did. I sincerely enjoyed Squadron life, shoot we all did, but I knew I could never make the Navy a career, a Reserve Officer, plus a non Naval Academy graduate didn’t stand a ghost of a chance to advance beyond O4, a few made O5, very few, (augmentation into Regular was an option, an option I didn’t take). BTW, most of us reserves types got along just fine. For me, taking my Honorable after I completed my required service was the right decision but I’m the type who never had a problem knowing who I was/am. Returning back to the US Merchant Marine proved exactly the right choice. Now all this was a long time ago, I feel the times have changed so much I would absolutely hate my life in the Navy today.[/QUOTE]
What has the USA come to? Hell, during Tet we had beer delivered with the rest of necessities. It was part of life but you knew when to and when not to, usually. When you got a little down time they were pleased as punch that you only drank alcohol, no matter the quantity.
You can’t regulate off duty behavior to the point of imposing some kinda of religious standards on folks that volunteered to join the military. These ain’t conscripts or draftees, keep this up and no one will fight your wars for you. Many of them left home to get away from this kinda crap. They didn’t think they were signing up for the Salvation Army or the Muslim Brotherhood or some other bunch of fundamentalist wackos.
I couldn’t agree more. Today’s USN is full of people that could not get a job elsewhere who maintain an overinflated opinion of themselves. I once sat with a COMSC during an event, During small talk I asked him " what was next in his life, post COMSC". He the proceeds to tell me he was thinking about getting a harbor pilot job somewhere. Yea right, all pilot organizations I know of are just chomping at the bit to employ a retired admiral with perhaps 2-3 years actual seatime under his belt. I knew them he was like the other COMSC’s and in general naval personnel I had met during my time with Msc. That is; completely disconnected, overinflated view of their importance in the world and what they do in general.
This new demand from seventh fleet is set up for total failure simply because it’s not enforceable. Treat people like kids and they will act like kids. The USN never learned this simply fact.
[QUOTE=tengineer;90480]What has the USA come to? Hell, during Tet we had beer delivered with the rest of necessities. It was part of life but you knew when to and when not to, usually. When you got a little down time they were pleased as punch that you only drank alcohol, no matter the quantity.
You can’t regulate off duty behavior to the point of imposing some kinda of religious standards on folks that volunteered to join the military. These ain’t conscripts or draftees, keep this up and no one will fight your wars for you. Many of them left home to get away from this kinda crap. They didn’t think they were signing up for the Salvation Army or the Muslim Brotherhood or some other bunch of fundamentalist wackos.[/QUOTE]
Well posted, tengineer, well posted INDEED !!!
Shoot, some of us use to carry beer in our wing tanks to supply the FIGHTING MEN.
I just got email from three former squadron mates, they remarked about the New Navy I sent them a few days ago. Basically they told me “Thanks for spoiling my day, ass hole.”
Unfortunately i have read some bad incidents involving USN schmucks and local population. Our overseas bases are probably on notice to get our people under control or pack up.
[QUOTE=salt’n steel;90512]Unfortunately i have read some bad incidents involving USN schmucks and local population. Our overseas bases are probably on notice to get our people under control or pack up.[/QUOTE]
Some USMC schmucks involved as well… The Admiral comes on Armed Forces TV and explains to the effect that they have found that in each recent alcohol related incident (ARI) the individual involved is a repeat offender. So the present restrictions are temporary while the hunt for anyone stationed in Japan with a past ARI within the last 3 years is ID, (or worse!)
[QUOTE=Jeffrox;90551]Some USMC schmucks involved as well… The Admiral comes on Armed Forces TV and explains to the effect that they have found that in each recent alcohol related incident (ARI) the individual involved is a repeat offender. So the present restrictions are temporary while the hunt for anyone stationed in Japan with a past AR within the last 3 years ID, (or worse!)[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=tengineer;90480]What has the USA come to? Hell, during Tet we had beer delivered with the rest of necessities. It was part of life but you knew when to and when not to, usually. When you got a little down time they were pleased as punch that you only drank alcohol, no matter the quantity.
You can’t regulate off duty behavior to the point of imposing some kinda of religious standards on folks that volunteered to join the military. These ain’t conscripts or draftees, keep this up and no one will fight your wars for you. Many of them left home to get away from this kinda crap. They didn’t think they were signing up for the Salvation Army or the Muslim Brotherhood or some other bunch of fundamentalist wackos.[/QUOTE]
When I was in the Army, Infantry, in Iraq, some of the guys got their hands on some whiskey after one of guys was killed. They got drunk in their rooms, in the barracks, off duty. Word got out, lots of rank was lost and 8 months later, sitting at home I heard that the squad leader was still sitting in a military prison in Kuwait for trying to cover up for his guys. I don’t even think he drank any of it.
THANK-YOU Salt n Steel AND Jeffrox for lending some REASON to this post. The rest of you make me chuckle. At EVERY opportunity to piss on the NAVY you fight each other to get yer zippers down and let go. In this case some significantly BAD behavior occurs and yer all right their to piss on how the leadership deals with it. You guys must be fun to stand watch with. NAVY and the Military in general doesn’t make shit up for the hell of it, they are REACTIVE. Especially with Security and Discipline. Raping the population of the local host country though is generally frowned upon and Big Navy had to do something, don’t you think? Oh wait, this ISN’T the first time? Treat them like children you say and they’ll ACT like children? How about the reasonable expectation that they ACT like HUMAN BEINGS and treat others like HUMAN BEINGS
[B]2 U.S. sailors indicted on charges of raping Japanese woman on Okinawa
[/B]By [B]Junko Ogura[/B], CNN
updated 6:39 PM EST, Tue November 6, 2012
Civic groups in Tokyo protest the alleged rape of a Japanese woman by two U.S. servicemen on October 20.
[B]STORY HIGHLIGHTS[/B]
[ul]
[li]Two suspects are accused of raping a Japanese woman and injuring her neck[/li][li]The case has drawn outrage from Japanese officials and Okinawa residents[/li][li]The issue of violent crimes, especially rapes, by U.S. troops in Japan has divided the nations[/li][/ul]
[B]Tokyo (CNN)[/B] – Japanese prosecutors have indicted two American sailors on charges that they raped a Japanese woman on the island of Okinawa last month, a case that has deepened tensions between local residents and the U.S. military.
The arrest of the two suspects prompted outraged reactions from Japanese officials and resulted in the imposition of a curfew by the U.S. military on its troops in Japan.
The two suspects, both from a base in Fort Worth, Texas, were indicted by Naha District Court on Tuesday afternoon, according to a statement from the public affairs office of the U.S. Commander, Naval Forces Japan.
[B]2008: Japanese to U.S.: Get out[/B]
They were arrested last month on Okinawa, which lies south of the main Japanese islands, on allegations that they raped a woman in the early hours of October 16, leaving her with an injury to her neck. They were staying at a U.S. Air Force base on Okinawa while in transit.
According to the Navy statement, Aviation Electrician’s Mate Skyler Dozierwalker faces a charge of rape by group resulting in injury, and Aviation Machinist’s Mate Airman Christopher Browning faces a charge of rape by group resulting in injury, as well as a charge of robbery. Both men are 23 years old.
The Okinawa prosecutors’ office declined to disclose information about the indictment by telephone and didn’t provide a statement.
The issue of violent crimes by U.S. troops in Japan has divided the two countries for decades. It came to a peak in 1995 when a U.S. sailor and two U.S. Marines were convicted of raping a 12-year-old girl. Tens of thousands of Okinawans took to the streets at the time demanding that the United States leave the island.
Relations between the U.S. military and the people of Okinawa have also been strained in recent months over the U.S. Marine Corps’ deployment of MV-22 Osprey tilt-rotor aircraft to a base on the island. Some Okinawa residents are concerned because the Osprey has had a reputation for crashing.
The Okinawan community has long been against the presence of the U.S. military, which recently announced that thousands of Marines will be moved to a base in Guam.
The rape charges against the two U.S. sailors come just months after a U.S. Marine was arrested over accusations he assaulted and molested a woman in Naha, the capital of Okinawa.
And the situation was compounded last week by allegations that a U.S. airman broke into a family’s home on the island and assaulted a teenage boy before jumping off a third-floor balcony.
Okinawa police are investigating the incident, which appears to have taken place during the hours when the U.S. military curfew is supposed to be in effect.
[QUOTE=Sweat-n-Grease;90582]I like your post Jolly Tar, just a reminder, there are more than a few combat vets on this forum, I’m one. I hardly see me unzipping my pants, do you?[/QUOTE]
Shipmate, that’s well travelled ground for you and I. I simply offer this: if the shoe fits. Nothing more.
I could wax poetic on the mind-blowing, knee-jerk overreactions like the curfew in Bahrain, but then when I read the narratives on what triggered these things, I just shake my head in wonder. In that instance in Bahrain, the partygoers messed with other residents of the expat residential area, vandalized property, trespassed on a private boat, etc and at that point if a freaking Admiral can’t set an example of reasonable civility in a public place than I say to hell with him and the whole lot. I am no angel. I was a chick when being a chick on a ship was a new thing, and I partied like a guy. But when you get to the point where otherwise uninvolved bystanders are beyond offended, they are hurt, raped, killed, property damaged then enough is enough.
And in Okinawa? The rapes in Okinawa and Japan have been going on and on and on for a long time. I don’t get it, I don’t know what the mindset is, or why it occurs to these animals that raping a Japanese girl might be a great idea, but my opinion is either let’s withdraw from there (as they want anyway) or perform a frigging public castration on the next dopey sap who decides that rape might be a great way to while away a drunken Saturday night so that the next genius who considers it, may take the aforementioned punishment under advisement. Or not. Sorry about the run-on sentences. I am sick of the morons who dishonor the uniform and generally make life hell for those who simply want to enjoy an uncomplicated weekend of drunken debauchery, while harming no innocent bystanders.
This whole thead is about context. There was no mention that the Navy temporance policy was in response to alcohol related crimes being committed against locals in the original post.
These assaults (against children no less) are unforgivable. The offenders should be severely punished.
The political implications demanded visible action by Navy brass.
Very true. The USN in typical knee jerk reaction makes such judgement calls, often to the dismay to those that understand true leadership skills. Sure, punish the guilty, but don’t use blanket punishment of the type that cannot be enforced anyway. Doing so is a certain set up for failure and breaks down trust between management and workers, in this case navy brass / officers and enlisted.
