To pump or not to pump

Professional Mariner Forum
21

[QUOTE=+A465B;119973]Yes of course we have the usual sludge, waste oil and oily bilge tanks and can decant bilge water before the using the ows, or just use the shore discharge connexions, should circumstances make it possible.

Anyway, it is nice to have the flexibility.

Now about that fancy new ballast water treatment plant they fitted… argggh. I love the deliberately complexicated setup for the jellyfish pre-filter back flush and the banks of UV lights. We gonna have some controlipleximation fun.[/QUOTE]

That was one of my several nightmares before I retired. Ballast water exchanges weren’t bad but every trip there were talks about many different treatment systems. I often wondered how the UV systems would work with the high turbidity of some of the ballast we took on. But jellyfish pre-filtration…I’ll have to throw in an arrrrgh.

22

[QUOTE=injunear;119974]That was one of my several nightmares before I retired. Ballast water exchanges weren’t bad but every trip there were talks about many different treatment systems. I often wondered how the UV systems would work with the high turbidity of some of the ballast we took on. But jellyfish pre-filtration…I’ll have to throw in an arrrrgh.[/QUOTE]

There are days that I really miss sailing but the more I hear about all of the new regulations a part of me is glad that I no longer need to deal with it.

Now as for whether to pump or not. I remember working in NY and being told to Just Pump the Bilges at night. I am sure that most if not all of us that have sailed in the past twenty years have been guilty of doing this a time or two. Anyone that does it Now a days deserves to get to book thrown at him. I am sure that there are still companies that put the pressure on their Chief’s to do this but at the end of the day it is your license that is hanging there and while the company will take a hit your license will be gone and with it your way to make a living.

23

The last runs I was on, many of the oil terminals could take our slops. It was company policy to use the OWS only if necessary with the little Bilge Boy units we had. Toward the end of one hitch, we were anchored offshore. My oily bilge tank was getting full so I started the OWS. After about 5 minutes the OCM shit the rack. I notified the port engineer that I needed a new OCM and that it was not a problem for me to install. The next evening we shifted to the terminal. I called the port engineer and he said that the OCM was not in the budget. I said the equipment failure is logged and as far as I’m concerned, it’s a no-sail item. “Really”, he says. Early the next morning he walks into the galley as I’m drinking my coffee, throws his satchel in front of me and says “My license is in there and I can sail this thing if need be”. I said “that’s fine. The log and board is up to date. I turned 55 a few months ago and have more than my 7300 days to retire. As there’s nothing in my stateroom I can’t walk off and leave, I’ll grab my satchel and you can have it”. He says, “Let’s start this conversation over again”. Like an idiot, I worked another year.

24

[QUOTE=injunear;120005]The last runs I was on, many of the oil terminals could take our slops. It was company policy to use the OWS only if necessary with the little Bilge Boy units we had. Toward the end of one hitch, we were anchored offshore. My oily bilge tank was getting full so I started the OWS. After about 5 minutes the OCM shit the rack. I notified the port engineer that I needed a new OCM and that it was not a problem for me to install. The next evening we shifted to the terminal. I called the port engineer and he said that the OCM was not in the budget. I said the equipment failure is logged and as far as I’m concerned, it’s a no-sail item. “Really”, he says. Early the next morning he walks into the galley as I’m drinking my coffee, throws his satchel in front of me and says “My license is in there and I can sail this thing if need be”. I said “that’s fine. The log and board is up to date. I turned 55 a few months ago and have more than my 7300 days to retire. As there’s nothing in my stateroom I can’t walk off and leave, I’ll grab my satchel and you can have it”. He says, “Let’s start this conversation over again”. Like an idiot, I worked another year.[/QUOTE]

I pissed off the port engineer for the tug when “corporate” could not believe the rudder post packing gland was rusted down to nothing ( email I sent to higher-ups). Numbnuts flew up to “see for himself”. It had been written up for 2 years previously. He had been a hydraulic parts salesman before he put on his port engineers cap. I discovered when you kick the the wolf pack the whole nest of useless bums in the office wake up. The port engineer ordered nothing for the boat and collected his pay for basically ignoring engineers deficiency reports and doing nothing. No wonder they have constant shortage of decent engineers.
I wonder if I would have my job if the captain ordered me to start up the engines and I ignored him and did nothing?

25

[QUOTE=Too bad steam is gone;120025]I pissed off the port engineer for the tug when “corporate” could not believe the rudder post packing gland was rusted down to nothing ( email I sent to higher-ups). Numbnuts flew up to “see for himself”. It had been written up for 2 years previously. He had been a hydraulic parts salesman before he put on his port engineers cap. I discovered when you kick the the wolf pack the whole nest of useless bums in the office wake up. The port engineer ordered nothing for the boat and collected his pay for basically ignoring engineers deficiency reports and doing nothing. No wonder they have constant shortage of decent engineers.
I wonder if I would have my job if the captain ordered me to start up the engines and I ignored him and did nothing?[/QUOTE]

These are the kinds of things that keep me from waxing nostalgic about sailing. Very few of those days were “fair seas and following winds”, either in reality or metaphorically. That said, I would rather weather a real storm than have to put up with no shoreside support. I have had to deal with both kinds of superintendents. There is also the third kind, the one that grudgingly gives you what you want. . . .eventually.

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[QUOTE=Too bad steam is gone;120025]I pissed off the port engineer for the tug when “corporate” could not believe the rudder post packing gland was rusted down to nothing ( email I sent to higher-ups). Numbnuts flew up to “see for himself”. It had been written up for 2 years previously. He had been a hydraulic parts salesman before he put on his port engineers cap. I discovered when you kick the the wolf pack the whole nest of useless bums in the office wake up. The port engineer ordered nothing for the boat and collected his pay for basically ignoring engineers deficiency reports and doing nothing. No wonder they have constant shortage of decent engineers.
I wonder if I would have my job if the captain ordered me to start up the engines and I ignored him and did nothing?[/QUOTE]

I remember when my company sent out a Fax (yes that long ago) saying that vessels could no longer put TREATED Black Water overboard in certain areas of the North River (Hudson). We just happened to be at the company dock so I walked up to my Port Engineer and said that X Vessel was totally Compliant. He looked at me with a surprised look on his face and said :wow that’s great, how did you do it" . I looked him right in the eye and said we do not treat the Black Water it goes straight over the side. He jumped up and said why don’t you use the MSD? So, I said well if you read the monthly reports that my relieve and I had been sending in you have known that the MSD had been rusted out for a long time. He freaked out and pulled out our monthly reports and sure enough there is was in writing. I have never seen a MSD replaced so fast in my life.

It really floors me on how these companies will bitch and moan if you are late getting these reports to them, when for the most part they never read them.

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Yes I often ask my crew if they think I can get away with not steering…nah dispatch, I’m not doing that today. The barge can wait. …the same way they occasionally dodge a project or simple task I ask them to do.

Our deficiency slips don’t exist either. The best thing going is the electronic systems that the port engineer can’t easily tamper with and must follow up on all entries. Even if nothing is done now we have proof it was reviewed.

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[QUOTE=Too bad steam is gone;119484][ol]
[li]I just finished a job where the current procedure for getting rid of water which leaked into the steering gear room (rudder stock) was to pump it overboard with the bilge pump. I looked at the engineer training me to replace him and told him I would not do it and quit. There was a sheen on the water from either a little grease or hydraulic oil which was visable to my “over 15ppm eyes”. Maybe I was wrong but I won’t be put in jail for violation of the law. The captain gave me some baloney about “tonnage, as it was a tugboat”. He told me the company called the USCG and that was their ruling. Too many chief engineers have been fined $250,000 and I took the safe way out. There was no 15ppm OWS aboard and the rudder stock leaked like sieve when trimmed aft. any sea lawyers advice would be appreciated.
[/li][/ol][/QUOTE]

Any company worth working for shouldn’t insist you do this and any company that insists on you doing this isn’t worth working for.

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[QUOTE=Too bad steam is gone;120025]I pissed off the port engineer for the tug when “corporate” could not believe the rudder post packing gland was rusted down to nothing ( email I sent to higher-ups). Numbnuts flew up to “see for himself”. It had been written up for 2 years previously. He had been a hydraulic parts salesman before he put on his port engineers cap. I discovered when you kick the the wolf pack the whole nest of useless bums in the office wake up. The port engineer ordered nothing for the boat and collected his pay for basically ignoring engineers deficiency reports and doing nothing. No wonder they have constant shortage of decent engineers.
I wonder if I would have my job if the captain ordered me to start up the engines and I ignored him and did nothing?[/QUOTE]

It’s really pronounced when you approach the end of the fiscal year and you start encroaching on their budget bonus. Like any other business, I’ve worked with some excellent port engineers but many penny pinching assholes also. But then again, some have to answer to higher-ups with no clue of how the “mechanical thingies” work…

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[I]Did the wanker know how inexpensive an OCM is ? [/I] What a moron. Anyway, good for you, and I enjoyed the big laugh your recollection gave me. Hope you are enjoying that retirement.

PS - If you need to send an OCM to Deckma in Hamburg, they are quite good on the turnaround and can ship out a rebuilt immediately if you trade in.

Yeah, jelly fish pre-filter on the SWB treatment plant, complete with automatic back flush. We’ll see how well that works when she is running in anger.

Luckily methinks our design does not require a lot of ballasting / deballasting.

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[QUOTE=+A465B;120282][I]Did the wanker know how inexpensive an OCM is ? [/I] What a moron. Anyway, good for you, and I enjoyed the big laugh your recollection gave me. Hope you are enjoying that retirement.

PS - If you need to send an OCM to Deckma in Hamburg, they are quite good on the turnaround and can ship out a rebuilt immediately if you trade in.

Yeah, jelly fish pre-filter on the SWB treatment plant, complete with automatic back flush. We’ll see how well that works when she is running in anger.

Luckily methinks our design does not require a lot of ballasting / deballasting.[/QUOTE

After the pecker measuring was over, I had the OWS on line before noon. The vendor was only 30 minutes from the dock. I grew weary of the same crap my last couple of years sailing. Retirement is NOT over-rated.

Good luck on your new-build and shake-down.

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Thanks Chief ! Sea trials again Tuesday.

Last time we got 'er up over 30 knots, shooting for 32 knots this time around - not a problem. Love feeling the plant really rock - doesn’t seem to strain anything, excepting those 20V8000 MTU’s make one hell of a funny sound when the additional turbos kick in. Never really heard anything like it, yet they do get the charge air up over 4 bar. You can feel the power there in your bones, and it feels good. I imagine if it goes amuck one day, it will be spectacular.

PS - I went from sailing to sup’t to build manager and such, and by good fortune alone have always had great luck to have great budgets and good equipment. I feel for my friends aboard, and I understand the pressures from above. Is my office team is working with and for the shipboard teams … they better be. Of course I dealt with some destructive chiefs and poison attitudes along the way, and everyone is right when they are wrong, me included. On occasion there are the raging complaints too, and some of them really good whinges.

One chief I quite like has absolutely the best rants about management. … My wife knows when I get home, if I have even spoken to him during the day because of the number of times in a row I use the “F” word. Apparently if the chief says it 37 times during our phone call or visit, some of it rubs off. She looks right at me and says, “[I]Have you been talking to (name) today…?” [/I] Then it is laughter all round. At least the fellow is correct, very competent and we really like him … ahhh the man is the King of Whites in Rotterdam. http://www.coolveste.com/

So his tirades bring a smile and action !

If the wankers in the office ignore you, write them and call, call and write and if it ain’t happenin’ and it ain’t safe, then shut 'er down. Why the heck do we all get paid excepting to do it safely, correctly and as efficiently as possible? Is doing it wrong the cheapest way? Not in my outfit.

And this from ole Mr. Soft Patch and Cement Box…

PS - that retirement is looking mighty fine to me too, but alas, this particular job is fun as all get out, so I’m on it for the ride.

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[QUOTE=+A465B;120320]

If the wankers in the office ignore you, write them and call, call and write and if it ain’t happenin’ and it ain’t safe, then shut 'er down. Why the heck do we all get paid excepting to do it safely, correctly and as efficiently as possible? Is doing it wrong the cheapest way? Not in my outfit.

And this from ole Mr. Soft Patch and Cement Box…[/QUOTE]

And don’t blow your budget getting expensive spare parts. If you spend all you budget getting spares you’ll never need when you order parts you do need they will get cancelled.

You can’t have every spare you conceivably might need. Incompetent chiefs never have parts they need. Good chiefs almost always do because they know the plant and anticipated problems.

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[QUOTE=Kennebec Captain;120341]And don’t blow your budget getting expensive spare parts. If you spend all you budget getting spares you’ll never need when you order parts you do need they will get cancelled.

You can’t have every spare you conceivably might need. Incompetent chiefs never have parts they need. Good chiefs almost always do because they know the plant and anticipated problems.[/QUOTE]

That’s a good generalization but try to apply that to taking delivery of the first of a new class. Or even the second. Then the other factor is “You don’t need that for spares. You’re running coastwise with THE BEST shorebase support”. Right…

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[QUOTE=injunear;120342]That’s a good generalization but try to apply that to taking delivery of the first of a new class. Or even the second. Then the other factor is “You don’t need that for spares. You’re running coastwise with THE BEST shorebase support”. Right…[/QUOTE]

The optimum situation is when both the shore support and the C/E are competent and trust each other. The stars rarely align that way however.

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[QUOTE=Kennebec Captain;120344]The optimum situation is when both the shore support and the C/E are competent and trust each other. The stars rarely align that way however.[/QUOTE]

98% of the time, I’ve had great rapport with engineering support. It’s that 2% that has dealt misery at a grand scale which translates into long hours, rolls of bailing wire and gallons of Red Hand just to limp in to get that BEST shorebase support.

37

All our supt’s must have sailed chief or ETO.

For spares on new ship we get the builder/maker’s spares recommendations and in general, use the list, but set the recommendations aside for a while.

Then we start with what we by experience think about the consumables, the lube oil list, paints and chemicals
Then we hit the filters, cartridges, screens and elements
Then it is time to start the spares with seals, rings, wearing parts, fasteners and gaskets
Then get to bulbs, cards, batteries and things that generally expire with use
Then the parts that when they fail, the system is down, like sensors, switches and PLC’s, prioritized by system importance and if there is a backup system or workable workaround while awaiting parts.
Then the long lead parts
Then the periodic overhaul parts based on the gear

And repeat the process repeatedly to come up with a list

Then we look at the maker’s recommendations again and see what is covered there that we need, chuck the rest, and make our orders. I’m sure everyone here has done similar.

Of course all is tempered by the budget, trade, geographic area of operations and Contract requirements. But be assured the supt’s, if they give a shit, are raising hell for ever more of the “right” stuff, just like you mentioned !

it is a lot of fun. We enjoy it. My lead tech sup’t yells and insults me by 07h15 latest daily, and I let him have it back before I set my bag down, then we all have a laugh and find a way to buy what he needs.

The first time a vendor or new person in the office sees it going on, their eyes bug out until they see the dynamics.

He was after me for an exchange set of spare MSD membranes last week, and has already wiggled the argument a bit. He will come at me 4 or 5 different ways over the next week until I cave in, but at about $12k a set, he has to work for it and prove there is no workaround. (Note the unit is factory new operates fine - it is just to have a new clean spare set in case the MSD shits the bed).

The way we figure it, if we think we cannot run the ship and serve the clients 100% of the time, as contracted, with the parts (and services) on hand, we do not expect anyone else too.

We’ve just had a lucky streak for budgets, so it really helps. And that is why I’m loving workin’ here