How does the existence of the U.S. flag fleet prohibit American mariners from working on foreign flag ships?
How many American mariners are sailing as Masters on foreign flagged vessels? And in the case of war can USA take control of the vessels?
A second US register with American Masters and Chief Engineers would be all you need to lay the groundwork for a war fleet. And you don’t need to subsidize it to keep it modern.
Throw the foreigners on shore in case of war and replace them with American mariners from inland and coastal trade.
The secretary of defense evidently doesn’t agree.
I don’t think anyone here agrees with me. But it’s fun to debate.
He probably does understand but his speech was tailored to his audience. I was trading to Dammam / Bahrain during both Gulf wars. Dammam was awash with military kit in compounds as far as the eye can see, even Abrams M1s as reserves. Very little arrived on US flagged ships, most was chartered in RoRos. The best thing USA did in the first war was to organize an ice cream van to visit ships alongside - as soon as the war was over the Saudis stopped it.
I suppose it’s possible that Mattis is lying, but if that’s the case than not much basis for discussion.
you can’t call this a debate until you present a coherent position but so far all you have presented is
that the US doesn’t need a merchant marine because its leader is a certified retard and that its military only likes to kill goat farmers but if the US has a fleet of ships filled with Filippino mariners would do just fine for us because the foreigners can be thrown on shore win case of war and replaced with all the out of work US mariners who had lost their jobs to the Filippinos in the first place
1 Like
I was wondering when you where going to come out of your cave.
You cannot lose something you don’t have. I’m talking about international trade not scrapping the Jones Act.
He has a name, Drumpf.
he may be a horrible president but I still resent your disparaging him and while he may have a pathological mental condition (narcissistic personality disorder comes to mind) he is not a certified retard. the US still is a nation and this discussion is “supposed” to be about having a merchant fleet and mariners the DoD can call upon if needed to support overseas operations. You obviously cannot stay on topic because there is no argument that the US doesn’t need such a fleet with its mariners.
if you feel you can win this debate simply make us a clear statement how foreign ships with foreign mariners can “be relied upon” to do the job should the need arise?
otherwise just please STFU…SIR!
btw, I like my cave. it makes for a nice home and place to keep my arsenal of pointy sticks. care to visit?
I would love to visit, only heard great things about PNW.
I don’t think I can win this debate, I’m not trying to winning this debate. We are all losers when it comes to international trade, mostly because the western nations don’t manage to agree on anything concerning shipping. USA has a massive fleet of vessels trading international just under Panama or Liberian flag, without any Americans on board. Just like Norway and the rest of the European nations. All managed from an US office.
Who do you think decided this is the way it should be? Your country more or less shaped modern trade after WW2 when Europe was broken.
And I’m going to shut the fuck up now, I was not going to be drawn so much into this thread but vacation, whisky and a good opportunity to piss you off could not be wasted.
4 Likes
Not just possible, undoubtedly probable. History and actions are the best indicators of truth and future actions.
What did he do to you?
That’s actually not a bad idea except at a minimum all 4 senior officers need to be American, preferably all officers.
All government cargo and preference cargo would be required to go on the first register ships with 100% American crews.
Plus, isn’t representation / voting power at the IMO based off of the size of your flag fleet? This would bring the US back into a position of maritime authority.
2 Likes
In China upstream of the Three Gorges Dam they were building tanker hulls for Odfjell in a paddock. There was one hull alongside a fitting out berth and they were constructing the accomodation block on the fitting out berth for the hull in the paddock. Come the spring flood when the water level rises up to 20 metres the hull is moved to the fitting out berth.
God you’re annoying.
3 Likes
Your comment isn’t necessary or helpful or even properly addressing what I said.
1 Like
@ombugge is a one trick pony with the same tired old argument again and again. He wants to tire us out until we declare him the “Winner” and wins his internet argument.
for the love of God don’t be agreeing with one of them Norweegians here. You will set a bad precedent where they will expect more of the same.
besides. as long as there are unlicensed seamen, there must be a place for American unlicensed seamen to find work just as there needs to be places for junior American officers to start their careers so you really gain nothing making some second register only have US senior officers. We need the ships flying a bona fide US flag and providing employment for every single position a ship requires top to bottom
3 Likes