Tanker hits Bay Bridge

[QUOTE=“z-drive;93950”]

I hear that BS all the time…Don’t buy it. Their job is to provide the local knowledge and shiphandling expertise to avoid any such situation. If i tried using that excuse as to why I did damage to a terminal while landing a barge I know what the reaction would be. I am familiar with guys who do ‘sterile’ shiphandling on a daily basis and there is just an understanding there is ZERO room for error and operate as such.

Bad couple weeks of mariners…slow the hell down, and don’t do stupid stuff (towing in GoA). Problem solved? Yet another topic for a BRM lecture.[/QUOTE]

Spot on Z!

[QUOTE=joepilot;94026]Looks like John’s running his mouth off again to reporters. Here’s his latest “expert” comment to the AP which will be published in most of the nations F’n newspapers tomorrow :mad:…[/QUOTE]

Who the FUCK is this YahBoe coming on here with only 7 whole posts to his credit and criticizing John Konrad? Me I understand, but John…blasphemy I say!

Begone now with you CRAVEN PUSILLANIMOUS FOOL!

Joepilot my ass…Joenobody is more like it!

I was thinking of something fitting for a pilot. All I can think of is another example of how most pilots continue to believe they are “above the fray” and better than us non pilot mariners.

[QUOTE=Swampfox;94099]I was thinking of something fitting for a pilot. All I can think of is another example of how most pilots continue to believe they are “above the fray” and better than us non pilot mariners.[/QUOTE]

As the Old Saying goes, What is the Difference between a Pilot and GOD? GOD knows he is NOT a Pilot.

This forum protects its own? Right. Hopefully any members of the public / journalists who find their way on here realize that a lot of regular posters (not all) here are spectacularly great at offering uninformed opinions, speculating, and pointing fingers. God forbid i should ever face a jury of my own peers from this bunch.

[QUOTE=Fraqrat;94037] Why don’t instead of hiring their kids and other family members open the books for other qualified mariners to get one of the jobs? Maybe with a broader pool of possibly more qualified mariners this stuff wouldn’t continue to happen.[/QUOTE]

I would disagree with this statement in regards to the San Francisco association.

It is my opinion they have one of the fairest entrance requirements in the country. Meet their minimum requirements for consideration, score high in their points system and do well on the simulator portion and you stand a very good chance of joining their ranks.

There are not too many associations in this country where tugboat operators can still make the cut and compete with academy graduates. With the SF association, experience still counts for something.

So where was the experience the other day? Being in Kaliforniastan I would imagine they have to have what appears to be a “fair” entrance process. So lets say a pilots nephew a couple years removed from school and a twenty year seasoned ship master are applying at the same time who gets the job?

[QUOTE=Fraqrat;94157]So where was the experience the other day? Being in Kaliforniastan I would imagine they have to have what appears to be a “fair” entrance process. So lets say a pilots nephew a couple years removed from school and a twenty year seasoned ship master are applying at the same time who gets the job?[/QUOTE]

I can’t speak for all circumstances, but it depends on how high each individual scores in the points system and how well you do on the simulator exercise.

Fraq, being a hawsepiper, I am normally quite critical of the pilot associations but in this case and speaking from personal experience, it is a very fair system.

And no, I was not accepted.

I’m still scratching my head as to how this bunch seems to keep hitting stuff. They just went through all of this a couple years back. Maybe they need to update their admissions process. We all know shit happens but lightning has struck this bunch twice now.

[QUOTE=Fraqrat;94181]I’m still scratching my head as to how this bunch seems to keep hitting stuff. They just went through all of this a couple years back. Maybe they need to update their admissions process. We all know shit happens but lightning has struck this bunch twice now.[/QUOTE]

NO! These prima dona ballerinas just need to slow down in the effing fog…

[QUOTE=flotsam;94153]This forum protects its own? Right. Hopefully any members of the public / journalists who find their way on here realize that a lot of regular posters (not all) here are spectacularly great at offering uninformed opinions, speculating, and pointing fingers. God forbid i should ever face a jury of my own peers from this bunch.[/QUOTE]

What the F do you think this place is? A FORUM. Where people share ideas (good, bad and otherwise). We discuss stuff. If we were all experts we would be publishing books (like Mr. Konrad). Everyone else is just a pseudonym with an opinion to share, myself included. Some are real old salts, others are armchair sailors. A reporter quoting something from this forum without checking the facts would be no better than quoting wikipedia. WTF is with guys like you coming on here and talking $hit about folks on here expressing their opinions- informed or otherwise?? That is what this place is for! Look at the top of your browser ^^ does the title say “gCaptain discussion board of certified expert mariners?” No, it says gCaptain Forum. Some posts are better than others, and some, like yours, are no more useful than if I spread some corn on my keyboard and set a chicken down in front of my computer. If you don’t have anything intelligent, or at least witty, to share- then get lost.

[QUOTE=joepilot;94032]I’m grateful to him for gCaptain but he shouldn’t talk to the press. We have to protect our own! And he may or may not be justified calling himself captain but he certainly ain’t a pilot or “veteran operator”. This is why pilot associations hire PR firms, so they can prep real captains with a canned response that won’t inflame the liberal public.[/QUOTE]

Well…I know there are more working pilots on this forum so, if you want to “protect your own” then lets hear it guys- feel free to chime in anytime. When we discuss a tug incident, lots of tugboaters speak up. When we are talking drilling, lots of guys in the oil patch speak up. Where are the “real” captains in this discussion??

Don’t know this ship’s particulars but dead slow ahead on some of these ships with fixed pitch propellers is 8-9 knots. So if you have 1.5-2 kts of ebb and the ship is light, he could easily have been doing 11 kts at his minimum speed.

Do they have an escort tug at this point? They could put the brakes on

Not 100% sure, have not been in there in 7 years but if he was light which it sounds like he was, I do not believe any is required. It sounds like he took bunkers or stores & was headed for sea, so I don’t think any tug would be involved in this move.

So let me make sure i have this right: it’s a forum, and everyone’s input is welcome, educated or otherwise - unless you think it’s worthless?

I am just saying that there is public access to this forum - in a way you and I represent the trade. And while there is plenty of great stuff on here, there is definitely a lack of forbearance when it comes to pointing fingers before the facts are even known.

My original point was that this forum does not “protect its own,” meaning all fellow mariners. But if you want me off here because you don’t like what I have to say, maybe I should narrow my definition of “it’s own” and stand corrected.

[QUOTE=btm;94227]Don’t know this ship’s particulars but dead slow ahead on some of these ships with fixed pitch propellers is 8-9 knots. So if you have 1.5-2 kts of ebb and the ship is light, he could easily have been doing 11 kts at his minimum speed.[/QUOTE]

then either wait for a floodtide or have an escort tug act as a brake…NO EXCUSES ALLOWED!

It’s pretty standard practice in this part of the bay to put the hammer down to give the ship some bit of steerage as they pass through narrow channels with strong cross currents. As ships leave the Oakland inner harbor we have to get our lines off in a hurry or we will be dragged. Our little bathtub hull tugs don’t do 14 knots well.

I think the problem here was that the pilot ran parallel with the bridge for a while, made a hard left turn to cross underneath, but still had much of his way from the parallel run so the ship simply slid sideways into the bridge. A major piece of pilot error. Had it been a clear day, he probably would have just driven straight across the anchorage for the span but with the fog he opted to skirt around the outside of the anchorage in the channel to avoid any potential traffic.

[QUOTE=87cr250r;94268]It’s pretty standard practice in this part of the bay to put the hammer down to give the ship some bit of steerage as they pass through narrow channels with strong cross currents. As ships leave the Oakland inner harbor we have to get our lines off in a hurry or we will be dragged. Our little bathtub hull tugs don’t do 14 knots well.

I think the problem here was that the pilot ran parallel with the bridge for a while, made a hard left turn to cross underneath, but still had much of his way from the parallel run so the ship simply slid sideways into the bridge. A major piece of pilot error. Had it been a clear day, he probably would have just driven straight across the anchorage for the span but with the fog he opted to skirt around the outside of the anchorage in the channel to avoid any potential traffic.[/QUOTE]

exactly the same boneheaded move Cota made…FOOLS DRIVING BIG SHIPS TOO FAST IN THE FOG!

[QUOTE=btm;94227]Don’t know this ship’s particulars but dead slow ahead on some of these ships with fixed pitch propellers is 8-9 knots. So if you have 1.5-2 kts of ebb and the ship is light, he could easily have been doing 11 kts at his minimum speed.[/QUOTE]

The media says it was a 4knot ebb current that morning so speed over water was 7 knots? Is that still too fast for you c.capt?