[QUOTE=Kennebec Captain;97668]A little respect goes a long way but some people seem to need to be in a feud all the time.
K.C.[/QUOTE]
So true~
I’ve read such folks suffer from piss poor potty training, not exactly in those words, of course, same meaning.
[QUOTE=Kennebec Captain;97668]That’s a great line.
There’s some truth in it. I think it’s one of those 80% / 20% thing. About 80% of people can get along ok with about 80% of other people. About 20% are going to have trouble with almost everyone.
A little respect goes a long way but some people seem to need to be in a feud all the time.
K.C.[/QUOTE]
I think your numbers are pretty close. I’ve sailed with 3 captains like him in my career. They liked to see just how far they could push people. The company lost many good hands over this a$$hole. I was there 2 years before he showed up and had an good track record with Engineering and OPs. He soon realized I was not intimidated. i was also a newly wed sailing out of my back yard on a job with a great contract with plenty of OT, paid travel, top tier medical and pension. I wasn’t giving that up and worked there 17 years. The rest with the outfit were outstanding crews with a couple of exceptions…
[QUOTE=Kennebec Captain;97668]That’s a great line.
There’s some truth in it. I think it’s one of those 80% / 20% thing. About 80% of people can get along ok with about 80% of other people. About 20% are going to have trouble with almost everyone.
A little respect goes a long way but some people seem to need to be in a feud all the time.
K.C.[/QUOTE]
No we don’t. . .
[QUOTE=injunear;97696]I think your numbers are pretty close. I’ve sailed with 3 captains like him in my career. They liked to see just how far they could push people. The company lost many good hands over this a$$hole. I was there 2 years before he showed up and had an good track record with Engineering and OPs. He soon realized I was not intimidated. [/QUOTE]
I was naive about this for a long time but I’ve learned that some Capts and C/E do not want smart, hard working competent and experienced subordinates. They see it as a threat. When it’s happening to you it’s not clear what’s happening but I’ve seen a chief mentor a first for a few trips and then turn on them and try and force the first off. I think these people have a serious flaw and they don’t like it when subordinates learn to much.
K.C.
[QUOTE=Kennebec Captain;97785]I was naive about this for a long time but I’ve learned that some Capts and C/E do not want smart, hard working competent and experienced subordinates. They see it as a threat. When it’s happening to you it’s not clear what’s happening but I’ve seen a chief mentor a first for a few trips and then turn on them and try and force the first off. I think these people have a serious flaw and they don’t like it when subordinates learn to much.
K.C.[/QUOTE]
I’ve witnessed this on many occasions. Fortunately, I never had to experience much of it. I sailed with some great engineers and electricians that went out of their way to train me and encouraged me to advance. Those guys wern’t insecure with their jobs. Early in my career, we had a retirement party for my first Chief when he retired for the second time. I thanked him for spending so much time training me. He said “Boy, I didn’t do that for you! The more I taught you, the less I had to do!” I used the same model for the balance of my career.
[QUOTE=Kennebec Captain;97785]I was naive about this for a long time but I’ve learned that some Capts and C/E do not want smart, hard working competent and experienced subordinates. They see it as a threat. When it’s happening to you it’s not clear what’s happening but I’ve seen a chief mentor a first for a few trips and then turn on them and try and force the first off. I think these people have a serious flaw and they don’t like it when subordinates learn to much.
K.C.[/QUOTE]
Absolutely true, K.C., it happened to me several times. I recall being a permanent First, the permanent Chief retired and instead of making me the Chief a green Chief was brought over. After I showed him the ropes and he became confident he turned on me, told the office I was a drunk and not reliable. The Captain came to my defense, told the office that was bull shit but I was more than ready to change companies. The odd aspect is I preferred the First’s job over the Chief’s but hated to be treated in such a cowardly manner. I found work elsewhere, was hired on as Chief. I knew better than to turn down a good job offer, so Chief I was.
Several years later I ran into the Chief who lied about me, it was at a union meeting, he split before I could say anything to him. Found out he didn’t last too long, never knew the reason but I bet I can make a good guess.
A captain once told me that one of the hardest things about sailing captain was to stop sailing mate.
Some capts and chiefs can’t let go of running the deck or E/R. Also with an experienced subordinate the knowledge gap closes and the relationship changes. It’s harder to bullshit someone once they have a trip or two under their belts. They start seeing the warts, gaps and limitations. For many it’s uncomfortable to have a subordinate approach equal footing from a technical standpoint.
K.C.
[QUOTE=“Kennebec Captain;97785”]
I was naive about this for a long time but I’ve learned that some Capts and C/E do not want smart, hard working competent and experienced subordinates. They see it as a threat. When it’s happening to you it’s not clear what’s happening but I’ve seen a chief mentor a first for a few trips and then turn on them and try and force the first off. I think these people have a serious flaw and they don’t like it when subordinates learn to much.
K.C.[/QUOTE]
I sailed on a tanker once where the chief mate got promoted to master. The cargo pumps were hydraulic, and he ordered the new chief mate to keep the hydraulic pressure below a certain PSI which happened to be much lower than we used to run the pumps at for discharging cargo. That way, the new captain looked good by insuring that the new chief mate would not be able to discharge the ship as quickly as he had when he was the mate. It was an MSC charter, so efficiency was not always the top priority.
Yes. There was still one penny left that hadn’t burned completely through the hull. They went looking for answers and word of mouth got the man in big trouble.
That story doesn’t surprise me. But it seems like the mate should be at least as good on deck as the master if not better. The mate should start out knowing almost every thing about cargo the capt knows. Seems like he should be able to learn something on his own.
Poor is the pupil who does not surpass his master.- Leonardo Da Vinci.
K.C
[QUOTE=Kennebec Captain;97805]A captain once told me that one of the hardest things about sailing captain was to stop sailing mate. Some capts and chiefs can’t let go of running the deck or E/R. Also with an experienced subordinate the knowledge gap closes and the relationship changes. It’s harder to bullshit someone once they have a trip or two under their belts. They start seeing the warts, gaps and limitations. For many it’s uncomfortable to have a subordinate approach equal footing from a technical standpoint. K.C.[/QUOTE] That is true, it is a difficult line to walk but must be learned. To me it was uncomfortable having a subordinate not on an equal footing with me, although this was largely the case. So, what did I do, I encouraged questions and tried my best to made the correct answers. Plus, I never humiliated another engineer or anyone in my department. When a new 1st A/E came aboard I told him it would be a pleasure to help him so please if you don’t know ask. We can and will work it out, I never had a problem with asking when I was a new at a job. Yea, I received my supply of smart ass remarks like “I though you school kids knew everything.” It didn’t bother me.
[QUOTE=Kennebec Captain;97785]I was naive about this for a long time but I’ve learned that some Capts and C/E do not want smart, hard working competent and experienced subordinates. They see it as a threat. When it’s happening to you it’s not clear what’s happening but I’ve seen a chief mentor a first for a few trips and then turn on them and try and force the first off. I think these people have a serious flaw and they don’t like it when subordinates learn to much.
K.C.[/QUOTE]
Had this happen to me when I was 1st one time. I thought about beating the shit out of this asshole chief and “float testing” him then decided to quit so I didn’t have a cellmate the rest of my life. He referred the the other 1st as Bam-Bam from the Flintstones as he was a hammer mechanic. This chief would come down to the engine control room and humiliate this other 1st in front of the engine gang at 8 am. He didn’t do to me. He just got little jabs in til I finally quit. Met many other MEBA guys who to this day would beat this man senseless, it is a small industry.
[QUOTE=“Kennebec Captain;97810”]
That story doesn’t surprise me. But it seems like the mate should be at least as good on deck as the master if not better. The mate should start out knowing almost every thing about cargo the capt knows. Seems like he should be able to learn something on his own.
K.C[/QUOTE]
Agreed, but since the old mate/new master instituted a lower maximum PSI limit once he was no longer in charge of cargo, no one would ever be able to discharge as quickly again, no matter how knowledgable he was. Unless he dis-obeyed the new master’s PSI limit.
[QUOTE=fullbell;97834]Agreed, but since the old mate/new master instituted a lower maximum PSI limit once he was no longer in charge of cargo, no one would ever be able to discharge as quickly again, no matter how knowledgable he was. Unless he dis-obeyed the new master’s PSI limit.[/QUOTE]
Yes, my post doesn’t make much sense.
You’d think that the higher level that the ship was being run, the better the master looks. That was what I was trying to say, that the crew’s skill level reflects upon the master. But for some reason some masters think they look better when the crew looks worse. Seems crazy.
K.C.
[QUOTE=Too bad steam is gone;97828]Had this happen to me when I was 1st one time. I thought about beating the shit out of this asshole chief and “float testing” him then decided to quit so I didn’t have a cellmate the rest of my life. He referred the the other 1st as Bam-Bam from the Flintstones as he was a hammer mechanic. This chief would come down to the engine control room and humiliate this other 1st in front of the engine gang at 8 am. He didn’t do to me. He just got little jabs in til I finally quit. Met many other MEBA guys who to this day would beat this man senseless, it is a small industry.[/QUOTE]
WOW !
Never had this bad of experience, but had I did I would be in jail. As I look back upon my non Union jobs I see where we were so much more of a dam good bunch of Merchant Seamen as a crew, but then we had to put-up with the fascist owners and their sycophants. Union was/is much better but I fully understand your post and thoughts.
I always spent that time to train any A/E that can on my boat to run it properly. The way I saw it was if I was let go for whatever reason any on my A/E’s should be able to step up and do the job. I was never worried about loosing my job to an A/E even though I knew a lot of Chiefs that would never show their A/E’s everything. To me this is B.S.!!!
[QUOTE=Tugs;97846]I always spent that time to train any A/E that can on my boat to run it properly. The way I saw it was if I was let go for whatever reason any on my A/E’s should be able to step up and do the job. I was never worried about loosing my job to an A/E even though I knew a lot of Chiefs that would never show their A/E’s everything. To me this is B.S.!!![/QUOTE]
Some folks think they are too god dam important when nobody really is. It is team work, without it you will lose.
[QUOTE=Sweat-n-Grease;97819]That is true, it is a difficult line to walk but must be learned. To me it was uncomfortable having a subordinate not on an equal footing with me, although this was largely the case. So, what did I do, I encouraged questions and tried my best to made the correct answers. Plus, I never humiliated another engineer or anyone in my department. When a new 1st A/E came aboard I told him it would be a pleasure to help him so please if you don’t know ask. We can and will work it out, I never had a problem with asking when I was a new at a job. Yea, I received my supply of smart ass remarks like “I though you school kids knew everything.” It didn’t bother me.[/QUOTE]
I am still often accused by some as “knowing everything”. I deny that, and always will. What I WILL claim is that I am rarely wrong. There is a difference. When I don’t know something, I work to find out and that includes asking and stating that I don’t know when I don’t. . . There is no shame in that.
At one time I had a Senor Chief come to my Boat as an Relief A/E. I explained to him that I had one way that I show anyone new how I run the E.R. and not to take it personally. Well, after we were done he looked at me and said that in all of his years he had never had a walk thru as good as I had given him and he thanked me. He also said he was going to start doing the same thing. The way I see it is if I do not show you everything and give you a chance to ask questions then how an I to expect you to be able to stand watch. There were times where I relived as A/E and was told by the Chief that they were glad to have another Chief sailing with them but never offered to show me around. Needless to say I spent the first couple of watches lifting deck plates and tracing lines. I did have one Chief give me a great walk through and after we were done he asked if there was anything that he could do to make me stay longer than the week that I had agreed to (me Relieving as A/E) you should have seen his face when I asked him to give me the “Big Room”. I ended up staying with him for two weeks. I think that was some of the most fun that I had in a long time even though we worked our asses off but by working together we got a bunch of things done. When I was leaving he told me to come back anything but I told him next time “I get the Big Room”.
There are a lot of Assholes out there but there are some good ones left.
