Pray tell why one would find this form of employment desirable. Is not cutting ones losses and finding a permanent sea going job outside the hall impossible? I’ve sailed east coast/ west coast tankers and now found a home in the union free zone of the GOM. For qualified applicants there are more than a few jobs.
[QUOTE=CharlieFoxtrot;131699]Pray tell why one would find this form of employment desirable. Is not cutting ones losses and finding a permanent sea going job outside the hall impossible? I’ve sailed east coast/ west coast tankers and now found a home in the union free zone of the GOM. For qualified applicants there are more than a few jobs.[/QUOTE]
Hi Everyone:
The SUP is getting eight Watson class ships beginning March 11. Two ships are going to each hall. They require military
training provided by the union or out of pocket TRL. The job also requires a physical of less than MSC standards provided
by Concentrix. The union is actually preferring to train registrants over bookmen (why is that?). If I miss these ships I am
headed to the Gulf. Any recommendations for entry level OS on the Gulf would be appreciated.
Thank you,
CareerOS
CharlieFoxtrot, Deepsea employment outside of the union, and a lot of SIU ships, pays schnit with lousy benefits if any. It is what it is for the deepsea world, which began organizing at the end of the 19th century. Some people don’t like the thought of working in the GOM despite the steady work. And some may think working on fishing boats in Alaska or the North Banks is absolute insanity (me, at least). It’s not always about the steady job or even the possible better opportunities for advancement or having to survive the busts. There are many different types of sailors and some are just more comfortable in their little niche whether it be deepsea, osv, rivers, tugs or even tall ships. I tried the OSV route on a few supply and anchor boats. Absolute most boring time of my entire life. And I’m sorry if anyone is offended, and there are exceptions, but from what I saw it doesn’t take much to be an OSV AB.
[QUOTE=CareerOS;131793]
The SUP is getting eight Watson class ships beginning March 11. The union is actually preferring to train registrants over bookmen (why is that?). [/QUOTE]
Because the “A” and “B” seniority members won’t take them. Why take a government contracted ship when you can sail the Pineapple Run with Matson or a nice Far East run with APL? Besides, that’s how permits become “A” and “B” (or as you put it, ‘bookmen’) seniority is by taking these jobs.
As the old saying goes, “you gotta pay your dues”.
Yes. Point well taken. We need bookmen (A&B) on these military ships to mentor unionism. I was on a ship
where the boson became the adopted son of the captain (really a first mate) and threatened a delegate not to
upset his gravy train. This drunk was abusive and even brought me into the captain’s office for not working overtime
for his benefit. Everyone acted scared to man up; it was like “we wait till we are on matson to be union members”.
Brother I am paying my dues; they have exhausted their punishments against me.
I must admit being a sailor reminds me of learning kung fu from a famous man in Seattle Chinatown. You get
your butt kicked and then he asks you “did you learn something?”.
Been watching classic movies of the sea. I see the psychological struggles are ancient. Hopefully I can have
a positive effect on the culture of being on a ship.
Thank you for the advice everyone.
CareerOS
Don’t worry, they will be there. It’s a lot of long term jobs for the union and these guys will step up to help out the union and the contracted company, SUP style. I’ve heard of a couple of B guys pulling that stunt. Hopefully you brought it up with the port agent, unless it was SIU. That would be a waste of time and make you out as a troublemaker. Some officers act like their job depends on your toeing the line. Just remember, the Company and the Union made the good faith agreement, not the Union and the captain and C/M. Most officers know this while they have their job and responsibilities as well. There is a reason for the contract. Learn it, live it. But, there are expectations of you as a professional sailor. A good Bos’n or AB will prod you along, but will take the time to show you how to do something right or just better. My first ship, a non-union company Coastal Corp’s ‘Eagle Point’, ran my ass into the deck daily. Balls to wall, bell to bell. But, I had one of the 3 best Bos’ns I ever sailed with and the best damn gang of ABs ever. Most of what I know today I learned on that ship.
Can’t Argue with that my friend, but at the end of the day I work for my family and when I walk down the gangway to fly home, it brings me comfort to know my ship will be waiting for me when it’s time to head back. I can’t imagine having to sit day after day in the hall hoping to maybe get a job assuming the guy running the show isn’t taking bribes on the side and therefore money out of my pocket. Not my cup of tea. Sure, I’ve had some lousy OSV ABs sail on my ship and they were promptly shown down the gangway. I’ve also had some world class deep sea Bosuns, who like me, made the switch to the GOM for various reasons. Don’t know when you worked down here last, but Fourchon demographics are expanding. Lots of Yankees and west coast guys diluting the bayou gene pool. Like most reputable outfits, it’s sink or swim. But like you said more or less, to each their own and I sincerely respect any man/woman who chooses this line of work. We all sacrifice in this profession for our families no matter where our pay checks come from.
[QUOTE=CareerOS;131828]Yes. Point well taken. We need bookmen (A&B) on these military ships to mentor unionism. I was on a ship
where the boson became the adopted son of the captain (really a first mate) and threatened a delegate not to
upset his gravy train. This drunk was abusive and even brought me into the captain’s office for not working overtime
for his benefit. [/QUOTE]
I’m sure some “B” men will step up, I know they did (and I did) when the Sailors first got the LMSRs.
What Texaco said above is spot on, learn the contract. Live it. If you have questions, someone with the experience will be happy to listen and help.
My first trip as a delegate wasn’t an easy one. Maybe the biggest hard ass on the coast was chief mate, Peter Marshall. But, I studied the contract, was respectful and brought her in clean. I had a lot of help from the other sailors and the snapper too. They taught me much.
This bos’n doesn’t sound like the SUP serangs I knew and sailed with. They may be a lot of things, but a captain’s lap dog they aren’t. Was he an SIU crossover?
If you have problems, you have avenues to resolve them. Just follow the proper etiquette. Delegate, Bos’n, Patrolman, Port Agent and if you find no satisfaction, talk with David Connolly.
Good luck. Learn your job, be a shipmate and upgrade. Then one day, you’ll be riding those Matson ships on the Pineapple Run.
Hey Brother:
I recently went to the SF meeting and asked for clarification of my rights as a C-Member with under 90 days
sea experience to attend a trial of a fellow member. According to the Wilmington “mob”, they had a right to
remove me from the trial without any explanation. Prior to my trip to SF I brought the subject up at a meeting
and a debate ensued thus no clarification.
I respectively asked the union president in front of the sf membership about my rights as mentioned above.
The president was rude and dismissive. He stated “You mean this happened in January and I am hearing
about it now?” I explained to him I brought it up with the local authority in wilmington at the time of the
incident who said nothing (Business Agent) and a rather contentious debate ensued when I asked for
clarification of my rights at the meeting in Wilmington that month. I explained to the president in sf that
I was up from Wilmington on my own dime after carpooling with another member to get clarification now.
The president then snarls “you expect me to change a past practice for you?”. I stated “sir i am not
aware of past practices as a new C-card and I am not here to argue but to get clarification”. He then
dismisively waved his hand at me and turned his back saying “i never hear about this and so it never
happened”. A member then came to my defense and stated as he did in Wilmington that what he
said was untrue, not published in the constitution, or elsewhere and in fact the union had already been
sued for such autocracy. The president argued with the member and then sat in his chair and mumbled
obscenities at the membership which the vice-president refused to note when demanded. Upon arrival
to Wilmington days later the Busienss Agent communicated a threat to me from behind his desk. Such
a threat should of least been communicated outside the union property by one of the wannabe mobsters.
The business agent asked me why I associated with another member. I asked the business agent to
be more specific since he had communicated threats to me before over his perception that I was getting
friendly with a member. He said well you went to sf with him. I informed the business agent I carpooled
with a member to go to the sf meeting and I was there to clarify my union rights. The business agent
was obsessed with my association with a member and continued to verbally taunt and harass me getting
a girlie like glee from upsetting me. He then said "I got a phone call from sf wanting to know who the hell
was this (my last name) guy. I demanded to know who it was but he refused. I tried to explain to the
business agent he just communicated a spooky mafiaso threat to me in what could be a violation of my
union rights and my civil rights. He was so obsessed with my association with the other member that
he can’t see the my logic of being concerned about my welfare in a union when threats are communicated
to me for asking questions about my rights.
I had contacted the feds on previous threats and retained legal counsel that specializes in union
issues but I honestly thought this behaviour was an aberation. The business agent was informed
of my seeking protection from the feds and counsel and he continued to torment me like a nasty
girl in junior hight. He mocked my pleas for him to stop and taunted me to go to my lawyer. I
left upset of course as any man would be who again has had his faith destroyed that the people
responsible for securing our rights and representing us feel empowered to threaten and belittle
the membership. I fear the union treasury will be sacrificed to pay for the litigation and damages
of these corrupt officials.
I welcome any discussion on this matter since I am not getting representation from my union
whether is is jurisdiction, the criminal acts of people in the union who have formed cliques
blessed by the administration to keep honest folk from speaking up, the suppression of union
and civil rights from union administrators. I am starting to believe that Louisiana and the open-
shop is where honest seamen should start over and that the administration of the SUP needs
to be replaced by the ballot box or with handcuffs.
I know this is controversial stuff but it needs to be brought out into the sunshine.
Thank you as always,
CareerOS
I was at the meeting also. There were 34 union members at that meeting, from registrants to dues paying retirees. I’ve been to another meeting with P.C. (the other member in question) and that guy is a sack of schnit, a troublemaker (IMO). He has little respect for anyone. In that meeting, he was not only lashing out at Gunnar and Dave, but the membership as well. It was an interesting introduction to the union.You won’t get anything near it with the other unions. And make no mistake, that guy can dish as well as anyone. In any other union, a lowly C card would never have the chance to speak up as you did and any bayou company, wether the captain of office, wouldn’t take you seriously at all. I’m on the cusp of getting my B and contrary to Mr C, there are many of us who know the contracts, the constitution and the history. It is the members responsibility to learn these things and the responsibility of the members to assist as requested. I’ve NEVER had an issue in getting answers and even Dave has answered questions. And hang around the older hands and you’d learn plenty, the good and bad. Don’t know if the agent you are talking about in Wilmington is Hurley, but I’ve seen him go to bat and have zero complaints. Sometimes a beef is legitimate and others not. It’s all in black and white. Having a union who publishes contract issues and the financials in the WCS, which is open to anyone and everyone online, is as good a stand up deal as you’ll ever get. Go ask Chouest to see their books. As to the meeting and Mr C., it was clearly explained to Mr C and yourself the requirements, responsibility and rights of a committee duly appointed by the union members at the meetings. Mr C was found guilty by the committee and fined. To the best of my knowledge, Mr C has very little respect among the membership. As to the not training senior members for the LMSRs, that is such a joke. Most have already had the training from previous Patriot contracts. Even more want nothing to do with the ships due to the lack of $$ compared to Matson and APL and spending 4 months in Diego Garcia. And your, and Mr Cs., threats of lawsuit really brings to question your legitimacy of support of the union. As a last note, I trust your waiting in the hall for 2 years was at SIU, because if you’ve done that at SUP and have less that 120 days is just sad.
My good brother:
Before I went to the SF meeting I studied the constituiton. Please accept my arguments as friendly; I am grateful for your time.
The Preamble says:
"Whatever right belongs to one member belongs to all members alike, as long as they remain in good standing in the Union."
Page 1
In the meeting in Wilmington a penssioner got up and declared “You are not really considered a member until you are an A
or B card”.
That person should of said “Brother I am happy to provide you an explanation as to why you were removed from a trial with
no explanation. We have this concept called past practices whereby over time committees can look at a room of members
and remove those whose participation is not desired or whose witness are not in the interests of the committee’s business.
It is not written anywhere that we can do this but we employ a legal concept translated from latin that means business as
usual”
Had I been provided this explanation I would not have needed to seek clarification in SF.
Further reading of the constitution confirms that there is nothing about Trial Committees having
the authority to exclude members. Apparently the constitution is superceded through some other
commonly accepted Parliamentary procedure or practice. I accepted the President’s explanation
on this matter but he seemed unaccepting of my question as you recall and engaged in redirection
and hostile argument before providing clarity. Maybe he was having a bad day.
Thank you,
CareerOS
^ Organizations have both written and unwritten rules. There is a trap for people who know the written rules but not the unwritten ones. There are certain norms of behavior etc that are understood implicitly by experienced members. It might be wiser to learn the unwritten rules before you plunge yourself too deeply into a situation in which you risk not making the impression you wish.
1 Like
Things are good at the SUP for the new OS. Find out when breakouts Of Grey Hulls are occurring (now) and the applicant can sail with no military training. Jobs go begging weekly. AB Unlimited is needed weekly too on commercial vessels too. It is one of those cycles where we need sailors.