Sounds like Kings Point is Canceling Sea Term

[QUOTE=noice;186524]I’m not going to single out which one, but of the two you listed, one worked as a C/M aboard the Green Dale and Ocean Giant. She penciled in more OT while she was sleeping than any one I have ever seen. Perhaps my favorite experience with this individual was when she was lowering a hatch cover and did not have the link bars locked out of the way, instead of investigating why the hydraulic relief valve was lifting, this C/M held the lever down until it pierced the hatch covers and destroyed the watertight integrity of the ship (super awesome when carrying grain or any cargo than can’t get wet). After riding the relief for so long an O-Ring eventually let go. Due to the fact this C/M felt it was not necessary to put the scuppers in there was oil over the side of the ship in a US port, and not a cup or two either.

To get a good idea of their character, they immediately grabbed their bags and headed down the gangway, she was due off that port.

If you are going to reference someone, don’t pick someone that has a continued history of causing ships to go off hire due to laziness.[/QUOTE]

I don’t know of and have never heard of either of them, but from what I know of this industry when it comes from reportings about a woman, I believe about half of it, or maybe none of it. On the original topic about harrassment, I have never seen a cadet get harrassed. I have seen cadets being coddled and also behaving inappropriately without much need of coersion…making it very difficult for the people who are just trying to work if I might add! But still, no one should be harrassed and I dont doubt any of it happened. It is nice that KP is actually making a statement about it and attempting to do something. Maybe it takes some hardships happening to “connected” kids for things to change. Its so much more real now that we are talking about KP cadets.

Now it makes sense.

https://www.usmma.edu/academics/usmma-reaccreditation-update

Looks like accrediting body picked something up in their review process.

Parttial quote:
[I]KINGS POINT, N.Y., June 30, 2016 – Today the Middle States Commission on Higher Education (MSCHE) issued their expected determination regarding accreditation, and while they found the Academy’s academic foundation is sound, and in many ways exemplary, they issued a warning with recommendations regarding two broad areas separate from academics: combatting sexual harassment and assault, particularly during Sea Year; and governance of the USMMA.

The Academy remains accredited while we work with MSCHE to address the requirements and recommendations, and ensure the highest caliber education for the Academy’s Midshipmen. The Academy has two years to reach compliance, and we are confident that we can return to compliance within that span of time.[/I]

Haven’t read the linked reports yet though.

[QUOTE=miriam;186478]I have a message for the leadership at Kings Point, particularly the individuals responsible for the decision to stop the sea year due to harassment.

The sea year is not a semester at sea for college students to have a fun semester away. It’s for young professional mariners to get real experience in their field. It’s an opportunity for cadets to troubleshoot, think on their feet and learn by working in their industry- in the real world.

I didn’t go to Kings Point, but I’ve sailed with many graduates from the Merchant Marine Academy, and many incredibly bright cadets. The sea year really puts Kings Point cadets ahead in the industry, as that year at sea on several different vessels is priceless experience. I can honestly say that all my Kings Point cadets have been hard-working, smart young people who I would appreciate sailing with again.

Who am I to speak about Kings Point if I didn’t go there? Well I’ve been sailing professionally for 9 years. I’ve worked on research vessels, fishing vessels, container ships, heavy lift ships, car carriers, navy ships, tugboats and passenger ferries. Sure, I’ve seen my share of harassment happening on and off ships. Both directed at me, and directed at others. I reacted like so many other women before me have done- I spoke up. I did something about it. I defended people who were being harassed and I defended myself.

We cannot put our heads in the sand. If I did nothing, or if I simply complained to the company or to the Academy that people were acting wrong and expected them to “save” me because I said a “safe word” nothing would ever be done- no lessons would be learned and bad behavior, harassment and general ignorance would continue.

Many strong, courageous, smart and hard working women came before me. They did not get where they are today because they complained about harassment, or because they simply let it happen. They spoke up. [B][I][U]Women like Tuuli Messer Bookman, Deatra Thompson and countless other brave women who went to sea before me. They worked hard, they spoke up, they changed this industry’s attitude towards women.[/U][/I][/B]

A safe word isn’t going to change this industry’s mind about women, blacks, gays, or anyone who feels marginalized or harassed. It will only affirm in people’s minds that these incidents are just “part of sailing”.

We need to teach these cadets to stand up for themselves. We need to teach captains and other senior officers to stand up and be leaders who are progressive and fair. Officers on the management level need to know how to effectively handle harassment on their ships, not sweep it under the rug.

To all the Young women and men coming into this industry. You are strong, smart, brilliant and courageous. Don’t be deterred by bullies. If you are hard-working, honest, and carry yourself with integrity, you should have the strength and ability to stand up for yourself, to right the wrongs, to teach this industry that you won’t put up with harassment. That said, you still have to work hard, you still need to take constructive criticism- after all you have to begin somewhere. Be humble, be open to learning, be proactive.

These are not “children”, Mr. Jaenichen. These are adults. They’re old enough to work, they’re old enough to support their families, they are old enough to lay their lives down for their country. Don’t treat them like weaklings who need to be protected. Empower them to protect themselves- to protect each other- to change the industry’s mind about “Academy Kids”. If we baby these young people- we will get babies. I, for one, would rather sail with able professionals. I don’t care if you are black, white, female, transgender, republican or lactose intolerant- if you can do your job safely, if you are a good shipmate and contribute to the operation of the vessel- I’m happy to sail with you. I’m happy to teach you, to learn from you, to collaborate with you to make this industry more tolerant and safe.

It’s great that you’re having this week’s Call to Action. Obviously there are people who need an attitude adjustment. The academies need to understand how to turn out mature, able officers who are going to carry themselves with integrity and bravery- speak up for themselves and others, prove themselves by their hard work, do their jobs and provide safe working atmospheres for their crews and the cadets who follow.[/QUOTE]

You are well intentioned, but clueless, if not just misguided.

I relieved Deatra Thompson on the old Green Dale years and years ago, as 2/M. Neither before nor since have I seen such a cluster fuck of a global charts and pubs portfolio. She had plenty of time and space (a dedicated, spacious chart room with a closing door)to get the job done and maintain things. I spent an entire round the world hitch sorting it out. I think she should’ve stayed in the Navy.

I do not know the other person of whom you speak.

Unfortunately, you leave out major clowns such as S. Pyrtle who causes nothing but problems wherever she goes. It’s not about her work it’s about her attitude and her mouth. As recently as May, every one of her classmate at MITAGS wanted to strangle her, repeatedly. For me a few days in the same Seattle union hall her was more than I ever needed or wanted.

And you also leave out fellow clowns like that Houston pilot “Holly” (good friend of S Pyrtle) who comes on the ship decked out in pink from head to toe. Pink laptop, pink coffee tumbler, pink shirt, pink hat and whispers every fucking bell and rudder order.

There’s nothing special or extraordinary about any of these 3 women. They are not mavericks or trailblazers, nor is there anything exceptional or noteworthy about their work history or achievements. I can name just as many great mates/engineers whom happen to be women as I can mates/engineers who happen to be one of the following: a bad shipmate, a bad officer, a bad seaman, a troublemaker.

How many female cadets or new female 3/M, 3A/E can you name that decide to bang their shipmates (licensed and/or unlicensed) at the very start or merely a year or two into their careers? I can think of more than a few, and I only have to go back to my last ship for my first name.

Women on ships doing a good, bad, or other job … about as revealing as the men on ship doing a good, bad, or other job.

[QUOTE=miriam;186478]I have a message for the leadership at Kings Point, particularly the individuals responsible for the decision to stop the sea year due to harassment.

The sea year is not a semester at sea for college students to have a fun semester away. It’s for young professional mariners to get real experience in their field. It’s an opportunity for cadets to troubleshoot, think on their feet and learn by working in their industry- in the real world.

I didn’t go to Kings Point, but I’ve sailed with many graduates from the Merchant Marine Academy, and many incredibly bright cadets. The sea year really puts Kings Point cadets ahead in the industry, as that year at sea on several different vessels is priceless experience. I can honestly say that all my Kings Point cadets have been hard-working, smart young people who I would appreciate sailing with again.

Who am I to speak about Kings Point if I didn’t go there? Well I’ve been sailing professionally for 9 years. I’ve worked on research vessels, fishing vessels, container ships, heavy lift ships, car carriers, navy ships, tugboats and passenger ferries. Sure, I’ve seen my share of harassment happening on and off ships. Both directed at me, and directed at others. I reacted like so many other women before me have done- I spoke up. I did something about it. I defended people who were being harassed and I defended myself.

We cannot put our heads in the sand. If I did nothing, or if I simply complained to the company or to the Academy that people were acting wrong and expected them to “save” me because I said a “safe word” nothing would ever be done- no lessons would be learned and bad behavior, harassment and general ignorance would continue.

Many strong, courageous, smart and hard working women came before me. They did not get where they are today because they complained about harassment, or because they simply let it happen. They spoke up. Women like Tuuli Messer Bookman, Deatra Thompson and countless other brave women who went to sea before me. They worked hard, they spoke up, they changed this industry’s attitude towards women.

A safe word isn’t going to change this industry’s mind about women, blacks, gays, or anyone who feels marginalized or harassed. It will only affirm in people’s minds that these incidents are just “part of sailing”.

We need to teach these cadets to stand up for themselves. We need to teach captains and other senior officers to stand up and be leaders who are progressive and fair. Officers on the management level need to know how to effectively handle harassment on their ships, not sweep it under the rug.

To all the Young women and men coming into this industry. You are strong, smart, brilliant and courageous. Don’t be deterred by bullies. If you are hard-working, honest, and carry yourself with integrity, you should have the strength and ability to stand up for yourself, to right the wrongs, to teach this industry that you won’t put up with harassment. That said, you still have to work hard, you still need to take constructive criticism- after all you have to begin somewhere. Be humble, be open to learning, be proactive.

These are not “children”, Mr. Jaenichen. These are adults. They’re old enough to work, they’re old enough to support their families, they are old enough to lay their lives down for their country. Don’t treat them like weaklings who need to be protected. Empower them to protect themselves- to protect each other- to change the industry’s mind about “Academy Kids”. If we baby these young people- we will get babies. I, for one, would rather sail with able professionals. I don’t care if you are black, white, female, transgender, republican or lactose intolerant- if you can do your job safely, if you are a good shipmate and contribute to the operation of the vessel- I’m happy to sail with you. I’m happy to teach you, to learn from you, to collaborate with you to make this industry more tolerant and safe.

It’s great that you’re having this week’s Call to Action. Obviously there are people who need an attitude adjustment. The academies need to understand how to turn out mature, able officers who are going to carry themselves with integrity and bravery- speak up for themselves and others, prove themselves by their hard work, do their jobs and provide safe working atmospheres for their crews and the cadets who follow.[/QUOTE]

You are well intentioned, but clueless, if not just misguided.

I relieved Deatra Thompson on the old Green Dale years and years ago, as 2/M. Neither before nor since have I seen such a cluster fuck of a global charts and pubs portfolio. She had plenty of time and space (a dedicated, spacious chart room with a closing door)to get the job done and maintain things. And yet she passes me a giant fucking turd sandwich.
I spent an entire round the world hitch sorting it out. I think she should’ve stayed in the Navy.

I do not know the other person of whom you speak.

Unfortunately, you leave out major clowns such as S. Pyrtle who causes nothing but problems wherever she goes. It’s not about her work it’s about her attitude and her mouth. As recently as May, every one of her classmate at MITAGS wanted to strangle her, repeatedly. For me, a few days in the same Seattle union hall with her was more than I ever needed or wanted.

And you also leave out fellow clowns like that Houston pilot “Holly” (good friend of S Pyrtle) who comes on the ship decked out in pink from head to toe. Pink laptop, pink coffee tumbler, pink shirt, pink hat and whispers every fucking bell and rudder order. Real professional…

There’s nothing special or extraordinary about any of these 3 women. They are not mavericks or trailblazers, nor is there anything exceptional or noteworthy about their work history or achievements. I can name just as many great mates/engineers whom happen to be female as I can female mates/engineers who happen to be one or many of the following: a bad shipmate, a bad officer, a bad seaman, a bad mate, a bad engineer, a troublemaker. And we all know the same can be said for men.

How many female cadets or new female 3/M, 3A/E can you name that decide to bang their shipmates (licensed and/or unlicensed) at the very start or merely a year or two into their careers? I can think of more than a few, and I only have to go back to my last ship 3 months ago for the first name. Shitty decisions as such carry more harmful weight than the presence of

countless other brave women who went to sea before me. They worked hard, they spoke up, they changed this industry’s attitude towards women.

Women on ships doing a good, bad, or other job … about as revealing as a men on ship doing a good, bad, or other job.

AND regardless of religious beliefs or lack there of… we all get the saying…

“There, but for the grace of God, go I.”

There is nothing special about the achievements nor failures of any of them. I didn’t relate my first hand story about Deatra to trash her. I included it to point out she isn’t some divine female mate sent by Poseidon to pave the way for change. She hasn’t changed shit, nor has Holly, and certainly not Pyrtle. And the last 2 are nearly 20 yrs older than Deatra.

Wow, 9 years, stop the presses! You don’t know shit about shit.

      • Updated - - -

[QUOTE=noice;186524]I’m not going to single out which one, but of the two you listed, one worked as a C/M aboard the Green Dale and Ocean Giant. She penciled in more OT while she was sleeping than any one I have ever seen. Perhaps my favorite experience with this individual was when she was lowering a hatch cover and did not have the link bars locked out of the way, instead of investigating why the hydraulic relief valve was lifting, this C/M held the lever down until it pierced the hatch covers and destroyed the watertight integrity of the ship (super awesome when carrying grain or any cargo than can’t get wet). After riding the relief for so long an O-Ring eventually let go. Due to the fact this C/M felt it was not necessary to put the scuppers in there was oil over the side of the ship in a US port, and not a cup or two either.

To get a good idea of their character, they immediately grabbed their bags and headed down the gangway, she was due off that port.

If you are going to reference someone, don’t pick someone that has a continued history of causing ships to go off hire due to laziness.[/QUOTE]

And I’m sure that was Deatra as she was a long time permanent C/M at Waterman. As far as I can tell from MMP shipping registry, she is no longer at Waterman.

[QUOTE=KPChief;186653]
Looks like accrediting body picked something up in their review process.
[/QUOTE]

It looks like Helis cherry picked the report and acted on the only thing that he could blame someone else for.

The root of the problem is that there is no reason for KP’s continued existence. KP’s unholy relationship with MARAD is the only reason it has not been closed and the property sold off years ago. The fiction of “service academy” is absurd, the fiction of its students participating in the “merchant marine” is equally absurd. The very few that might actually sail cannot possibly justify the cost to maintain that clubhouse for MARAD ring knockers.

If only the accreditation organization and the public knew the whole story.

[QUOTE=Johnny Canal;186678]
And I’m sure that was Deatra as she was a long time permanent C/M at Waterman. As far as I can tell from MMP shipping registry, she is no longer at Waterman.[/QUOTE]

I agree with you it was her attitude that was the worst, first hour up the gangway and she would be barking at the unlicensed. I’ve never seen someone bring so much shit aboard a ship that was a permanent. She brought an entire back of a pickup truck bed full of junk food. When Waterman reflagged the ship they paid for her to ship a pallet of vitamin water from Asia to the US.

When they transferred the MSP to the Ocean Giant, she had a clean slate to be promoted to Captain as Crowley had an AMO captain that was female on there before and had no knowledge of her from the car carrier. In one trip she screwed up so bad that they were never going to make her Captain there. She took off to the Patriot Gray ships shortly afterwards.

I’ve worked with more than a few good female engineers/mates who were excellent shipmates as well.

[QUOTE=Steamer;186692]http://maritime-executive.com/article/usmmas-accreditation-may-be-in-jeopardy

It looks like Helis cherry picked the report and acted on the only thing that he could blame someone else for.

The root of the problem is that there is no reason for KP’s continued existence. KP’s unholy relationship with MARAD is the only reason it has not been closed and the property sold off years ago. The fiction of “service academy” is absurd, the fiction of its students participating in the “merchant marine” is equally absurd. The very few that might actually sail cannot possibly justify the cost to maintain that clubhouse for MARAD ring knockers.

If only the accreditation organization and the public knew the whole story.[/QUOTE]

There is KP grads that sail, don’t shit on all of us. And as for the money aspect, if you knew what other academies cost I doubt you’d cry so hard about KP.

As for KP shutting down, as I said earlier in the thread, it is a government bureaucracy that will fight for their survival and budget. Asking them to go away or shutdown is like asking TSA to go away because they suck at their jobs. You’ll run out of breath before you effect any real change.

[QUOTE=noice;186693]I agree with you it was her attitude that was the worst, first hour up the gangway and she would be barking at the unlicensed. I’ve never seen someone bring so much shit aboard a ship that was a permanent. She brought an entire back of a pickup truck bed full of junk food. When Waterman reflagged the ship they paid for her to ship a pallet of vitamin water from Asia to the US.

When they transferred the MSP to the Ocean Giant, she had a clean slate to be promoted to Captain as Crowley had an AMO captain that was female on there before and had no knowledge of her from the car carrier. In one trip she screwed up so bad that they were never going to make her Captain there. She took off to the Patriot Gray ships shortly afterwards.

I’ve worked with more than a few good female engineers/mates who were excellent shipmates as well.[/QUOTE]

The trouble is, like anything else, you remember the trouble makers more easily than those that are good at their jobs and good shipmates. I remember the trouble makers far more easily than the good hands. Of any gender. . . .all three or four of them. . . .

[QUOTE=Johnny Canal;186678]You are well intentioned, but clueless, if not just misguided.[/QUOTE]

I believe “clueless” and “misguided” applied to the entirety of this post is a bit over the top. Never mind not knowing “shit about shit” - isn’t that a little premature? This person has made all of one post and well, sticking it out for 9 years is not nothing. Certainly entitles one to an opinion.

However, I would gladly stipulate your point that holding up someone as an exemplar little deserving of it is a rhetorical error and worthy of rebuttal. This you have provided in detail and with new counter examples. If these were characters I knew and felt strongly about based on first hand knowledge maybe I would have gone off this way as well but these days I am trying to count to 10 more and more.

Was there a need for the commencement speech style in evoking these brave women marching forward into the big bad maritime industry or the pep talk paragraph aimed at the “young women and men coming into this industry”? Probably not. After a small cringeworthy moment I just read on and feel that this post overall was coming closer to what I see happening than what some others posted in this thread.

For the rest of us who don’t know any of these people and therefore CAN NOT share in your, noise’s or miriam’s opinion of them what does it matter to the bigger point of the post?

What I got from the post and what my experiences have shown me;

  1. Sea year is not for fun
  2. Cadets are not children
  3. Cadets need to be able to distinguish between normal order discipline / coaching / mentoring / work assignments (whatever the language or volume or nastiness of the work) and harassment.
  4. Cadets standing up for other cadets or any shipmate is to be expected. Retaliation is not to be expected or accepted. I would hope everyone not just cadets would also intervene in these cases.
  5. Most assuredly there are those who walk among us that “need an attitude adjustment”.

On this last point I would have said this was a dying breed but apparently they still get hired and somehow get acceptable enough evaluations to hang around poisoning a crew.

Does any of this excuse misbehavior of cadets or other young officers? Certainly not. I couldn’t agree more with your point about making poor decisions. And since they are not children they need to be accountable for those as well.

I feel a little disappointed that the “training” we get on these subjects seems to vary wildly and that instructors seem to be misinformed as well (this is NOT coming from your post). Some have said they were told things like if anyone says it is harassment it is harassment and this leading to coddling or holding back from interacting with females on an otherwise professional basis.

What I remember from training is that honest evaluation of performance and efforts to correct same is not harassment. Harassment arises when there is a quid pro quo situation and/or that it stems from the abuse of power not the mere exercise of power.

[QUOTE=Steamer;186692]http://maritime-executive.com/article/usmmas-accreditation-may-be-in-jeopardy

It looks like Helis cherry picked the report and acted on the only thing that he could blame someone else for.

The root of the problem is that there is no reason for KP’s continued existence. KP’s unholy relationship with MARAD is the only reason it has not been closed and the property sold off years ago. The fiction of “service academy” is absurd, the fiction of its students participating in the “merchant marine” is equally absurd. The very few that might actually sail cannot possibly justify the cost to maintain that clubhouse for MARAD ring knockers.

If only the accreditation organization and the public knew the whole story.[/QUOTE]

While reading this article was interesting, it was not until I was reading the comments that the true problem (to me that is) came to surface. This is a cut and paste of one of the comments –

Begin Quote – "KP • a minute ago

Take it easy there guy. KP produces 200+ exemplary mariners each year, 85% of whom ship out. Just because they don’t spend their whole life out at sea and want to put their education and credentials to use shore side does not mean they waste the taxpayer’s money. I could not afford college, worked hard, and got out of KP debt free. Go back to sea where you belong and don’t forget to collect unemployment when your vacation expires." End Quote.

So, I guess the we are the best of the best attitude is still being taught there. Whoever this posters is, I’m glad that I will never have to sail with them!

The “Free Education” vs the high cost of State Academy’s argument is tired and untrue. If you have decent enough HS grades to get into KP, then you can pretty much get a full ride scholarship at SUNY. Even if you don’t have top grades and scholarship opportunities, NY Maritime college is part of the SUNY system which has pretty great tuition rates.

[QUOTE=noice;186694]… if you knew what other academies cost I doubt you’d cry so hard about KP.[/QUOTE]

Just because the others waste money doesn’t make KP any more useful or relevant. The place has long since past its sell by date. It no longer serves a need and if the same standards were applied to KP that were applied to the round of “base closings” a few years ago, it would be a footnote to WW2 history.

I enjoyed that comment on Maritime Executive by the guy whose best argument was to claim the writer was just jealous. That about sums up the mentality of those who fight to keep the place funded on the taxpayer’s back. They can only make personal attacks on people who point out the waste and fraud that surrounds the place. Sexual harassment? I guess the (alleged)gay sex parties were completely consensual since pleasing the faculty members in a very personal fashion was just part of the educational process.

Maybe we need something like 60 Minutes to dig into KP. It is a shame that the public doesn’t seem to even know the place exists, much less that they are paying for it.

Here’s my opinion. KP seems to be a place for parents who have the means to send ther kids to collage but have a friend who can pull some strings get their kids a free ride on the taxpayer’s. This coming from a poor boy from the hills.

[QUOTE=Tugs;186699]While reading this article was interesting, it was not until I was reading the comments that the true problem (to me that is) came to surface. This is a cut and paste of one of the comments –

"KP • a minute ago

Take it easy there guy. KP produces 200+ exemplary mariners each year, 85% of whom ship out. Just because they don’t spend their whole life out at sea and want to put their education and credentials to use shore side does not mean they waste the taxpayer’s money. I could not afford college, worked hard, and got out of KP debt free. Go back to sea where you belong and don’t forget to collect unemployment when your vacation expires."

So, I guess the we are the best of the best attitude is still being taught there. Whoever this posters is, I’m glad that I will never have to sail with them![/QUOTE]

Tugs, please clean up your post so that it is clear where you copy and paste starts and stops, because I find it incredibly informative…

[B][I][U]If KP is saying that 85% of their graduates go to sea… I’m calling absolute bullshit on this. [/U][/I][/B]

For many years before and after I graduated, I’m convinced you couldn’t compile the grads either going to sea or active duty together and equal 85% (and probably not even close). I’ve been out 20 years and have met all of 2 or maybe 3 others from my class who shipped out in some form or fashion from graduation onward. So, how does that look out of 220 grads?. I know many others who went straight to shipyards, logisitcs /agent type jobs for companies like NYK and K-Line on USEC and another who went straight back to KP as a CO (i.e. USMS…:rolleyes:) and soon after that found himself working as a vessel planner for a large European shipper’s USA office… for the next 15 years.

There was a recent spike in KP sea service, but you can attribute that to the oil patch boom. And where are the new grads going to sail NOW???

It’s no secret that for years neither MARAD nor KP itself cared what the grads did, and unfortunately, neither did many of the grads because they knew no one would ever inquire as to why they never really tried to ship out or go active duty…

I would find it really sad if Hellis himself were publishing/authorizing such ridiculous stats about KP “return on investment” (and to all you eye rollers out there, that’s the best phrase I can think of at the moment) because he and I had a talk about KP grads not going to sea or not working on US flagged bottoms just a couple of years ago. And he would or should know damn well that 85% is ludicrous.

That stat is really going to ruffle some feathers around here and beyond, and justifiably so.

Update…

After re-reading tugs’s post, I see this stat came from some commenter elsewhere as it pertained to wherever the link goes, and not from KP itself.

The commenter is absolutely delusional.

Johnny Canal-
This is a amall industry. I’m pretty sure I know who you are and your level of experience in the maritime realm.

Don’t overstate things lest someone calls bs.

Just saying - Krush

The plot thickens. Sea year was cancelled due to concerns about harassment raised by the Middle States Higher Education Commision, KP’s college accreditation agency.

KP’s accreditation is in danger of being pulled because of: (1) concerns about sea year sexual harassment; and (2) weak leadership.

funny, they claim to make leaders there!

[QUOTE=z-drive;186718]funny, they claim to make leaders there![/QUOTE]

Yes, but maybe weak leaders???

[QUOTE=z-drive;186718]funny, they claim to make leaders there![/QUOTE]

True leaders are not to be found in academia.

What is the saying? - ’ Those who can not do, teach’

The objective of any institute of higher learning is to hire the lowest cost personel capable of meeting the minimum criteria necessary to ensure continued accrediation and financial inflow.

Have I become cynical at the young age of 23? Damn straight I have.

[QUOTE=Johnny Canal;186713]Tugs, please clean up your post so that it is clear where you copy and paste starts and stops, because I find it incredibly informative…[/QUOTE]

Sorry, I thought the use of Quotation marks " " would show the quoted text.