[QUOTE=DeckApe;186012]Brainstorming on what KP could do to resolve their student’s sea time issue. Anyone think of more?
Most realistic
Send their cadets to other maritime academies’ school ships during their summer terms.
Rent a school’s ship in their off-season.
Send their students to serve on USS ships.
Send their students to serve on USNS/NOAA ships.
Vet companies for compliance and send them to approved ships.
Belay their stand-down as it is impractical and poorly thought out.
And on the extreme end
End the practice of earning merchant mariner licenses at KP.
Close KP.
Lobby for their own ship.
Lobby for an exemption to sea time requirements.
Lobby for a change of what qualifies as sea time.[/QUOTE]
I’ve seen the USCG grant waivers to allow midshipmen to sit for the license yet they must return to sea for 30-60 days as a cadet before they get their credentials. Now this was before the NMC and all that jazz so does KP have enough pull to get the USCG to change… probably not.
[QUOTE=noice;186017]I’ve seen the USCG grant waivers to allow midshipmen to sit for the license yet they must return to sea for 30-60 days as a cadet before they get their credentials. Now this was before the NMC and all that jazz so does KP have enough pull to get the USCG to change… probably not.[/QUOTE]
It’s the United States MERCHANT MARINE Academy. They can get their sensitive selves onto a merchant ship or pay back the taxpayers money. They were the laughing stock of the world’s national maritime academies already but now they are US embarrassment.
[QUOTE=tengineer1;186019]It’s the United States MERCHANT MARINE Academy. They can get their sensitive selves onto a merchant ship or pay back the taxpayers money. They were the laughing stock of the world’s national maritime academies already but now they are US embarrassment.[/QUOTE]
Don’t know why I’m getting attacked for stating a fact. Also the last time I saw this was 2008 with a Mass Maritime cadet. So it isn’t just KP.
[QUOTE=noice;186021]Don’t know why I’m getting attacked for stating a fact. Also the last time I saw this was 2008 with a Mass Maritime cadet. So it isn’t just KP.[/QUOTE]
You aren’t getting attacked. I just replied to a thread. No personal affront intended at all.
My point was KP is supposedly THE service academy for supplying officers for the US merchant marine which is supposed to be needed for the security of the country but they are too wussified to send these taxpayer funded children to sea. Damn embarrassing.
[QUOTE=Tugs;185997]I have no problem with you, so let’s chalk it up to a bad day and I should have had that extra cup of coffee before posting.[/QUOTE]
Ditto, ditto and ditto.
[QUOTE=tengineer1;186023]You aren’t getting attacked. I just replied to a thread. No personal affront intended at all. My point was KP is supposedly THE service academy for supplying officers for the US merchant marine which is supposed to be needed for the security of the country but they are too wussified to send these taxpayer funded children to sea. Damn embarrassing.[/QUOTE] I think we can all agree at one time there was a great demand for Merchant Marine Officers. The problem I see with KP is multi-faceted. When I applied in 2002 the admissions office talked almost nothing about working on ships, they talk more about how you can fly navy jets at graduation. Now at first I blamed the school for being lazy, however I volunteered to speak to high school juniors/seniors in my congressional district that were applying to the federal military academies. I spoke about the benefits of our profession, the pay, the vacation, seeing the world, etc. Of the hundred or so kids there maybe two came up to the merchant marine booth and even asked questions. Say what you will about KP but trying to get high school kids interested in our profession is very tough.
So when you do get people interested in KP due to the non sailing possibilities and they take that route, who is at fault? Also there was Army, Navy, Marine, USCG, and other recruiters all stationed at the school. Each of these looks like a superstar when they are able to pull a fully paid for and trained officer into their ranks for $0.
Then companies and shipyards pull other graduates away from sailing. MSC offers jobs to others before they have even passed license so many take that opportunity and only last a tour or so before they quit sailing. Some went to the oilfield and we all know how that ended up.
I don’t like the direction of KP when I was there and after, I don’t know the solution for that place. As a government entity I doubt they will disappear easily, there are plenty of people that will fight to maintain that $90+million a year to graduate ~300 kids.
Even the posts that defend KP’s continued existence, or are neutral about, it do a great job of adding to the reasons it must be defunded, shut down, and the property sold to relieve the taxpayer of a pointless burden.
I was on a U.S. car carrier last week. They told me that their Captain was just fired earlier this year for banging the KP cadet. That will cost him over a million dollars for that money shot
[QUOTE=Starboard Ten;186033]I was on a U.S. car carrier last week. They told me that their Captain was just fired earlier this year for banging the KP cadet. That will cost him over a million dollars for that money shot[/QUOTE]
Especially if she looked like the young lady from my “cub scout” photo!
Well said and the best response I have seen posted yet. Here is my 2 cents. I would fully agree that some time needs to be taken to better educate the Cadets and the Mariners on what is harassment and provide a safe working environment so that it can spoken about. I do not agree with the action that is being taken MARAD as it appears to be more theater that reality and it is being driven by political motivations and not safety. Stop the madness and do not remove the cadets from the ships.
Anyone who has gone to sea for any period of time has had the chance to experience being taken to task and even “Ridden” for no other reason than your supervisor does not like the way you work or this is the way they manage people. This is stupid but not harassment.
If someone is trying to run someone off the ship or out of the industry because they do not want that “type” of person in the industry, then we have a problem and it needs to be addressed. If someone is going to give a poor review of a cadet then they need to be specific on the reasoning and also take into account the level of experience the cadet has. The academy should know who the less talented officers giving the reviews are and take that into account. Note to the ATR’s at Kings Point not all ships should be provided cadets to train. It is your job to make sure you follow up with the companies that agree to taking cadets to make sure they are providing the proper training experience.
It goes without saying that sexual harassment will not be tolerated, Full Stop. The only way this will occur is to all agree this will not be tolerated. Once this done, likely result of the meeting on the 24th, we need to make it safe to talk about. This will require more than just a bunch of old men and a few Military Senior Women who likely never sailed on a merchant ship sitting around a table agreeing to what we already agree to years ago. We need to get a group of Maritime Leaders to donate there time to make this change work. I believe this should be led Mariners, women and men, who want to see a real change in the industry so we can have ability to openly discuss. This is easier said than done.
One solution would be follow Maritime Law and tradition. Each Captain should already know that everyone onboard is their responsibility and this includes providing a safe place to work. The Captain is responsible to discuss this issue both with his crews and the cadets coming onboard. The companies need to provide the training and direction so this difficult, politically charged discussion can be done correctly. As a Captain your not worth your salt if you do not agree this is up to you and take the action required to stop this from occurring.
I would also say there should be no sexual relationships tolerated onboard the vessel at anytime. Some will disagree but that’s why we need to talk openly. My thought is this is a place of work and should be treated as such. What you do on your own time is your business and what you do on the ship is not.
Lastly to my friends at MARAD you need to get better leaders or advisors as the one’s you have do not have a clue stop playing politics with our industry.
[QUOTE=DeckApe;186012]Brainstorming on what KP could do to resolve their student’s sea time issue. Anyone think of more?
Most realistic
[U][B]- Send their cadets to other maritime academies’ school ships during their summer terms.[/B][/U]
[/QUOTE] eye roll Oh yeah, because they’ll never be exposed to non-pc sexually promiscuous cadets there… hell, one of the guys on my senior cruise at TMA had the nickname of “Shark” because he “went after all the fish” (freshmen) girls. Some of the old timers from TMA will tell tales of the banners hung on the port side (offshore until the Texas Clipper turned around to sail on cruise) that said “No virgins shall return! -class of 19**” for the parents to see as little Johnny and Suzie went away from mommy and daddy for the first time ever.
Somehow I don’t think that option will be the first choice for KP’s little princesses’ parents.
If your a gal who is working out on deck wearing a tight, white v-cut shirt, and your at least a 7/10, what do you expect? Especially on a vessel full of men. Even on a training ship, that is going to happen. What is the ratio of men to women at the academies…7 guys for every 2 girls. Men are men. The armed services aren’t any better. There was one ship (DDG I believe) I read about where the senior males were passing around junior females like a flask around a campfire.
I just don’t think that ships can be completely PC because you live and work on something that you can’t escape a ship for weeks or months at a time. Mariners would be crazier if they had to edit themselves at all times!
[QUOTE=c.captain;186036]Especially if she looked like the young lady from my “cub scout” photo![/QUOTE] I believe your comments are part of the problem with the industry. You are too ignorant to see you are talking about a person not the academy and for this I hope you are banned from the forum. I also believe you should turn in you six pack license and stop taking people out fishing while drinking. You are a disgrace to everyone who is a sport fishing guide you numb nutted idiot as you can’t be someone who holds any higher license.
[QUOTE=Yo_Soy_Marinero;186042]If your a gal who is working out on deck wearing a tight, white v-cut shirt, [B][U]and your at least a 7/10[/U][/B], what do you expect? Especially on a vessel full of men. Even on a training ship, that is going to happen. What is the ratio of men to women at the academies…7 guys for every 2 girls. Men are men. The armed services aren’t any better. There was one ship (DDG I believe) I read about where the senior males were passing around junior females like a flask around a campfire.
I just don’t think that ships can be completely PC because you live and work on something that you can’t escape a ship for weeks or months at a time. Mariners would be crazier if they had to edit themselves at all times!
Play ball.[/QUOTE]
And why exactly have you proposed a standard that high? I think you are seriously overestimating the average male mariner’s (let alone male in any profession) ability to maintain some sense of professionalism.
[QUOTE=z-drive;186020]they will do whatever they want, seeing as that’s where connected kids who can’t get into the other service academy’s go.[/QUOTE]
Shit, how the hell did I ever get it? I was (and still am) the MOST disconnected person I know. . . . .
[QUOTE=jbtam99;186040]eye roll Oh yeah, because they’ll never be exposed to non-pc sexually promiscuous cadets there… hell, one of the guys on my senior cruise at TMA had the nickname of “Shark” because he “went after all the fish” (freshmen) girls. Some of the old timers from TMA will tell tales of the banners hung on the port side (offshore until the Texas Clipper turned around to sail on cruise) that said “No virgins shall return! -class of 19**” for the parents to see as little Johnny and Suzie went away from mommy and daddy for the first time ever.
Somehow I don’t think that option will be the first choice for KP’s little princesses’ parents.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I used to survey the old TEXAS CLIPPER back in the day. . . making rounds out on deck was pretty damn scenic at times. I was just discussing this with my other over the weekend and told her pretty much the same thing. . . if the powers that be and the parents that send their daughters to KP are worried about what might happen to little Suzy on a busy, working commercial vessel crewed by older professionals and manned at the minimum, then the alternative of sailing on a training ship with lots of idle time and raging young hormones is hardly a better alternative. . . . .What a sad day. . .
So glad I’m over 50 and now instead of the grab-assey type of harassment I got in my 20’s in the Navy, I got a threat against my life in the middle of the Pacific…oh but that’s a story for another day
Needless to say it came from a 60+ year old curmudgeon with wet brain who really needs to RETIRE like right now.
Anybody who knows me personally knows that I am a professional on the job, and a hard worker. Other than Mr. Wonderful above, I’ve had no real problems since returning to a sea job.
One tiny little aside…if you can’t control the urge to merge, stay off research ships. Yes, they are loaded with cute young scientists in tight little shorts. And the women scientists are hot, too!
[QUOTE=catherder;186065]So glad I’m over 50 and now instead of the grab-assey type of harassment I got in my 20’s in the Navy, I got a threat against my life in the middle of the Pacific…oh but that’s a story for another day
Needless to say it came from a 60+ year old curmudgeon with wet brain who really needs to RETIRE like right now.
Anybody who knows me personally knows that I am a professional on the job, and a hard worker. Other than Mr. Wonderful above, I’ve had no real problems since returning to a sea job.
One tiny little aside…if you can’t control the urge to merge, stay off research ships. Yes, they are loaded with cute young scientists in tight little shorts. And the women scientists are hot, too! ;)[/QUOTE]
I was curious about your response since I feel you are pretty level headed and experienced at sea. In my sailing days, I didn’t sail with a LOT of women, but I did sail with a few. I found the ones that kept their heads down and focused on the job had the least amount of trouble, even if they DID establish a relationship with fellow shipmates and regardless of the level of attraction. . . like in any other business, I guess.
[QUOTE=cmakin;186070]I was curious about your response since I feel you are pretty level headed and experienced at sea. In my sailing days, I didn’t sail with a LOT of women, but I did sail with a few. I found the ones that kept their heads down and focused on the job had the least amount of trouble, even if they DID establish a relationship with fellow shipmates and regardless of the level of attraction. . . like in any other business, I guess.[/QUOTE]
You are correct in that observation. I have found that if you approach the job and your shipmates like an adult, you generally get treated as one, but there are exceptions. Face it, there is a fair share of genuinely crazy and disturbed individuals out here. I think the guy that gave me trouble earlier this year had some kind of mental disturbance going on. You can’t just brush that kind of thing off.
I wasn’t his only target, either. He fucked with men, too. He just didn’t think I’d do anything about it because he was drinking pals with the Chief. He thought wrong.
You have to remember that I work for the gubmint. It is a bug light for weirdos.
