I’ve done some research about the Paul Hall school’s unlicensed apprentice program, and it sounds like a pretty good deal: according to the website everything except for the medical exams and MMC fees are free. However, is there some sort of service obligation to the union once you graduate, or anything like that I need to know about? Thanks in advance for any advice.
My son went through the program some years ago. There is no service obligation. Unlike the military you can quit if it not to your liking but at the same time you can go as far as your ambition carries you. If you really have any questions just call or email them. 301-994-0010, prompt 2 or email Admissions@seafarers.org
[QUOTE=Some_guy;172734]I’ve done some research about the Paul Hall school’s unlicensed apprentice program, and it sounds like a pretty good deal: according to the website everything except for the medical exams and MMC fees are free. However, is there some sort of service obligation to the union once you graduate, or anything like that I need to know about? Thanks in advance for any advice.[/QUOTE]
I’ve gone through the entire program and am currently sailing with the SIU. Willing to answer any questions you have. Here’s a few things, though.
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When I started in 2012, it was advertised as a 9 month program. All said and done, it stretched out to be about 2 years, and I wasn’t simply slacking. You may get stuck in Piney Point for a couple months doing chores until they can find a place for you on a ship as an apprentice. After you finish your apprentice job, you have to reapply for the school which may take another couple months. Once you’ve done an OS job and are ready to go back to the final phase of the program, you again, have to apply for the upgrade classes.
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You’ll work for about $3/hr during your apprentice job. 8 hours a day at this rate, 90 days straight. This reminds me about point #1. I was forced to stay on the apprentice ship for an extra 30 days which stretched out the time even more. Overtime is about $8/hr. So 8 hours @ $3/hr, 4 hours at $8/hr for 12 hour days.
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Upon completion of the program, you’ll owe $1,000 as an entry fee into the SIU. From there, they take 5% working dues and another $500 something per year for membership dues.
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Along with the $3/hr shipboard pay, a large chunk of the program is working in their campus galley. You’ll go through a phase where you’ll work 14-15 hour days in it, WITHOUT PAY.
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The “uniforms” aren’t free. If memory serves correctly, it was around $500. Also, I’m pretty sure before getting into the program, I remember paying for physicals and drug tests.
Maybe I’m already salty at the ripe young age of 22, but if you’re still fairly young, I’d recommend going to a maritime academy. Let’s take the last ship I was on for example. I was a 21 year old AB, and the 3rd Mate I was with was also 21. In the amount of time it took me to complete SIU’s UA program, he finished maritime academy making double the amount that I do without having to scrape paint all day and work oftentimes alongside illiterate ABs, yet at the same time, they think they are gods (unlicensed engine room isn’t much better in terms of crowd, and don’t get me started about the stewards department. Officers are a much better group to be around in my opinion.
Thanks guys! I have also been looking at SUNY Maritime, so will probably do that instead.
lets remember that 21 year old 3rd Mate also has $40,000 in school loans. The 21 year old AB may not have much but he could be debt free if he is careful. I’m not advocating one way over the other but I have known academy grads who upon getting into the real world wish they had climbed the hawsepipe instead.
I’ve NEVER heard of an academy grad wishing they climbed the pipe. The Academy is the only way to go. I climbed the pipe and many others have as well. It was a long fuckin road with many potholes and road blocks. I wouldn’t do it again if I had the choice. I would go straight to the academy!
I’ve worked with two that said If they had understood the system better they would have skipped the academy. I don’t think they regretted their experience just the accompanying loans.
said no one ever. It’s not necessarily better but given the choice it’s a no brainier.
[QUOTE=Jnx;172757]I’ve gone through the entire program and am currently sailing with the SIU. Willing to answer any questions you have. Here’s a few things, though.
-
When I started in 2012, it was advertised as a 9 month program. All said and done, it stretched out to be about 2 years, and I wasn’t simply slacking. You may get stuck in Piney Point for a couple months doing chores until they can find a place for you on a ship as an apprentice. After you finish your apprentice job, you have to reapply for the school which may take another couple months. Once you’ve done an OS job and are ready to go back to the final phase of the program, you again, have to apply for the upgrade classes.
-
You’ll work for about $3/hr during your apprentice job. 8 hours a day at this rate, 90 days straight. This reminds me about point #1. I was forced to stay on the apprentice ship for an extra 30 days which stretched out the time even more. Overtime is about $8/hr. So 8 hours @ $3/hr, 4 hours at $8/hr for 12 hour days.
-
Upon completion of the program, you’ll owe $1,000 as an entry fee into the SIU. From there, they take 5% working dues and another $500 something per year for membership dues.
-
Along with the $3/hr shipboard pay, a large chunk of the program is working in their campus galley. You’ll go through a phase where you’ll work 14-15 hour days in it, WITHOUT PAY.
-
The “uniforms” aren’t free. If memory serves correctly, it was around $500. Also, I’m pretty sure before getting into the program, I remember paying for physicals and drug tests.[/QUOTE]
If you want to go to sea the SIU’s Apprentice program is definitely worth considering. Not everyone is cut out to go to a maritime academy. The reasons could be financial, academic, or simply not what they want to do. In my son’s case he tried college twice. Both times he didn’t finish out the semester. College was simply not for him.
When he was in the program it consisted of 3 phases. After the end of 3rd phase they got you your first job at which time you were on your own. It is now “5” where the 4th phase is your first job, and the 5th phase is where you are expected to upgrade out of an entry level job rating. If you are smart upgrading as fast as possible is what you want to do anyway. There are only so many entry level jobs around anymore.
The initiation fee, working (vacation) dues and membership dues is the same for everyone (in the SIU). That is not very much compared to the officer unions (AMO, MM&P, or MEBA). Just a fact of life in the industry.
They are pretty up front on the requirements to get into the program whether it be uniform cost, physicals, drug test and so on.
People moan and groan about the pseudo-military BS and all the other stuff you have to put up or do while there. The truth of the matter is that if you can’t learn put up with BS there, you may have difficulty with some of the BS in real life, let alone living and working aboard ship.
Just my 2 cents.
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[QUOTE=RubberRhib888;172772]I’ve NEVER heard of an academy grad wishing they climbed the pipe. The Academy is the only way to go. I climbed the pipe and many others have as well. It was a long fuckin road with many potholes and road blocks. I wouldn’t do it again if I had the choice. I would go straight to the academy![/QUOTE]
Absolutely! The superior license with full STCW is worth every penny, not mention a real college education, and a degree.
Hawespiping has gotten expensive with all the required expensive STCW, and other courses. It’s not hard to spend $30,000 cash or credit card for those courses (with airfare and hotels).
$40,000 in government subsidized student debt at very low interest for a college degree is nothing. A third mate can very comfortably be pay it off over four years (although it may make more financial sense to lock in the low interest rate and pay it off over 20 years with inflation devalued dollars).
The four year state college degree with a third mate license cannot be beat.
[QUOTE=tugsailor;172791]Absolutely! The superior license with full STCW is worth every penny, not mention a real college education, and a degree.
Hawespiping has gotten expensive with all the required expensive STCW, and other courses. It’s not hard to spend $30,000 cash or credit card for those courses (with airfare and hotels).
$40,000 in government subsidized student debt at very low interest for a college degree is nothing. A third mate can very comfortably be pay it off over four years (although it may make more financial sense to lock in the low interest rate and pay it off over 20 years with inflation devalued dollars).
The four year state college degree with a third mate license cannot be beat.[/QUOTE]
Or Third Assistant Engineer’s license. . .ahem. . . .and even possible to do it without incurring any large debts. . . but then you will be marked with the stain. . . .