Seeking clarification on requirements for AB-sail

Maritime Topics Maritime Training & Licensing
21

In regards to your A.B. question: I think we all would like clarification on the A.B. hierarchy (as it were) You may be on to something about the A.B. sail, but it would be nice to know for sure if you (or I!) qualify for A.B. on a sailing vessel! You already have 12 months on a commercial vessel, and can get a “special” The rest (limited, unlimited) require no more testing, just more seatime. So it would be interesting to find out how this “sail” is viewed. The US code specifies that an Unlimited A.B. is valid on ALL vessels. I would like clarification if this is so. If it is, then your argurment is moot about whether you qualify for it, since (hopefully) a Special, Limited, or Unlimited would cover a Sail job.

On another thought, it may be that the school looking to hire an “A.B. Sail” may either not understand what is required, or (more likely) be looking for the shortest time, qualified, thus lowest paid A.B possible.

22

Trust me CD many times things are confusing to all of us! To try and answer your questions.

  1. Yes your license is considered a deck officer endorsement (although to be honest I’m not sure exactly what that is since I could not find it defined).
  2. The reality is no, other than OS.
  3. The last sentence basically talks about STCW endorsement for RFPNW and PSC. They are required on larger ships.

Hope that is helpful.

23

Thanks for that. I try to be considerate of other people’s time by learning as much as I can before asking, but… this certainly can make one throw up one’s hands at times! (Or wonder what one is missing that one should be asking for if one only knew…)

[QUOTE=Robert;46016]

  1. Yes your license is considered a deck officer endorsement (although to be honest I’m not sure exactly what that is since I could not find it defined).
  2. The reality is no, other than OS. [/quote]

Okay, that makes sense, because otherwise everyone could just get a 25-ton Master license and leave it at that, which obviously would not be right.

[QUOTE=Robert;46016]
4. The last sentence basically talks about STCW endorsement for RFPNW and PSC. They are required on larger ships. [/quote]

Ah, okay, I may have one more question then. I did pass the test for PSC (Lifeboatman) and as far as I know that is approved. I did not get RFPNW, because I thought if I did (Lookout only) that would set me up with a 1-year deadline for the “big” RFPNW that I might not be able to meet (don’t know if I will find work on vessel 200t or over).

But… am I on the wrong track and I should get RFPNW (would need to take test for Lookout only I think)? Is there something about already having a Master’s license (albeit small) that changes my situation?

Very much so! Thank you. I’m feeling very fortunate to have found such a friendly and knowledgeable group to join here :slight_smile:
CD

24

RFPNW is a huge cluster in my opinion. Personally I feel the look out only training pretty much not worthwhile since it is so restrictive. So you are right to wait until you can find work on appropriate vessel. If you by passing the test for PSC that you took a CG approved course, the course completion certificate has to be submitted to the CG within 12 months of the completion of training to be valid.

25

Robert,

Thanks, your last post confirms what I thought I “knew” about the RFPNW-Lookout Only, and why I am waiting until later to pursue it. (But I had just now had been wondering if I had it wrong, and I never was clear on whether it was useful in the real world or not. Good to get your input on that.)

The PSC I submitted along with my AB application (I was calling it Lifeboatman earlier in this thread), so that and BST are both in within a year of my taking the class/tests. Did not want to miss that deadline!

I will post a follow-up after I talk to the NMC about the AB-Sail.

CD

26

When I submitted for AB,I also requested AB sail…My MMC came back with Able Seaman-Sail ,and Able Seaman -Any Waters, Unlimited…

The closest thing to school training on a sailing vessel, was a trip I made to Mexico with my family where we home schooled the kids for a few months on our 42 footer…The only research that was conducted during the cruise was where to locate the best anchorages and the coldest beer…

The term Doug Pine used earlier must have applied…lol… " Equivalent supervisory position " Who knew…:slight_smile:

27

AB sail endorsement was created after the implementation of the Sailing School Vessels Act. Sailing Vessels so certificated, will require ratings of AB-Sail in the manning section of the COI when operating under the COI for SSV. This endorsement is for these type specific vessels ONLY. It just happens that some of them are also Oceanagraphic Sailing Vessels like S.E.A. has.

You may have AB Unlimted, Special or Limited, but if you don’t have the AB sail endorsement, the AB unlimted, Special, Limited does you NO GOOD on a SSV vessel that requires said endorsement to full fill the maning requirements. AB Unlimited does not “trump” the AB Sail, they are two different animals as it where.

Also was said in the thread it is going away, this will not happen until/only if, the SSV Act is withdrawn as a certificate for a sailing vessel. There are sailing vessels that are DUAL certificated with both subchapter T and SSV.

Trust this helps.

28

I just thought I would update the thread with my progress:

I called the NMC and spoke with my evaluator. Let me start by saying that this experience was a million times better than my last one (late 2009), in that I was able to get through basically right away (last time I literally spent hours/days on hold). Thank you, NMC!

I explained my thoughts to the evaluator, referencing the MSM and the CFR, and why I thought I should or at least could be qualified. I also mentioned that I knew of others with similar sea time to me who did have the AB-Sail (didn’t mention any names but I know that, for example, Shellback’s and my backgrounds are similar). I made sure to let them know that I was not seeking anything I did not deserve, but neither did I want to give up something I should have.

The evaluator basically agreed (after all, he had approved it initially), but said that in order to take it further, I would have to send in a letter asking for “reconsideration,” and that this reconsideration would likely take a month or more (they have many reconsiderations to handle and it involves going over your sea time, etc. with a fine-toothed comb so is time consuming).

Well, that did not sound too appealing right now as I would like to get the AB-Special (which has been approved and is sitting on the same application). So I asked the evaluator: If I rescind my application for the AB-Sail now, is that tantamount to saying I agree that I don’t qualify? Or could I rescind it now, and then get my AB-Special, and then later re-apply for the AB-Sail at which point the evaluation would not be holding up something else?

He said that I could do the latter, and it would not indicate that I was “giving in” and agreeing that I don’t qualify for the AB-Sail. I simply can mail/fax a letter now saying that I would like to remove the AB-Sail from this application (and if I want to I can note that I will re-apply later), and then they can get my AB-Special/Lifeboatman coming now.

I think I will do the latter. It will cost me a bit more, but at this point I would prefer that to waiting a month (or more…) for the AB-Special, etc. In the meantime I can also check into the 100-ton mate a bit more and make sure whether I do or don’t qualify for that.

I will update this thread if/when I have more information. Thanks to everyone who has chimed in.

Now I will be reading the “jobs” threads with my own fine-toothed comb! :slight_smile:

C. Dennis

29

What do you want to do with an AB sail? Pragmatically, it is only good for sail training vessels - and only a couple of the larger boats have AB-sail requirements - one for each mast.

Put an app in for an AB and see what you are approved to test. Upgrading an AB from AB special to AB limited to AB unlimited involves submitting more sea-time; it does not involve taking another test. That may not be true for AB sail.

I have a 1600-ton masters with sail endorsement and an AB unlimited. I worked as a mate on a boat that had some AB-sail required deckhands. But I don’t have an AB-sail! Also, foreign-flagged tall ships do not recognize an AB sail endorsement.

Note: the sail-training boat had three-AB sail deckhand positions - one for each mast. The master and mate positions did not require an AB-sail license. I could be captain of the boat. I could even be the engineer or the cook. But I could not have been the AB-sail deckhand.

In summary, its a pretty worthless endorsement.

30

Worthless is a relative judgement. I’ve got AB Sail, I’ll never use it but I qualified for it. To me it’s worth a lot.