Russian Falls From World's Highest Window

Scuttlebutt
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From NYT now:

Yevgeny V. Prigozhin, the Russian mercenary leader of the private Wagner paramilitary group, was listed on the passenger roster of a private jet that crashed in Russia on Wednesday, killing all 10 people aboard, Russia’s aviation authority said.

Russia’s Emergency Situations Ministry said that the plane, an Embraer jet, crashed in the Tver region, north of Moscow, according to the state news agency TASS. Minutes later, the news agency, citing Russia’s aviation authority, said that Mr. Prigozhin was listed as a passenger on the plane.

“An investigation has been launched into the crash of the Embraer aircraft, which occurred tonight in the Tver region,” Russia’s Federal Air Transport Agency said, according to TASS. “According to the list of passengers, among them is the name and surname of Yevgeny Prigozhin.”

The Embraer jet was traveling from Moscow’s Sheremetyevo Airport to St. Petersburg, Russia, and crashed less than 30 minutes after takeoff, TASS said.

Mr. Prigozhin, an outspoken tycoon, built the private paramilitary force that has fought on Russia’s behalf in Ukraine and across Africa. His harsh judgment of the country’s army leadership led him to instigate a rebellion two months ago that he later abandoned.

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I thought that defenstration was a relatively new play on words, but it seems to have a long and storied history. Who’da thunk it?

Maybe you should update Wikipedia with the latest Russian news…

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It was an accident…sure.

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Collateral damage

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Why am I not surprised?? The usual fate of Putin’s challengers, no matter what the method, The old school Stalin techniques are apparent and ingrained in Putin’s mindset.

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I love this from NYT:

“Russia’s Investigative Committee, a top law enforcement body, announced the opening of a case on the plane crash, on suspicion of a violation of air transport safety rules. It said investigators had been dispatched to the site of the crash…”

First rule of Russian air transport safety: Don’t get on a plane with somebody that makes Putin look bad.

Next on the list:

Russia demotes Surovikin, a top general tied to Prigozhin.

Gen. Surovikin, looking stern, in an army green military uniform.

Gen. Sergei Surovikin, a former commander of Russia’s forces in Ukraine was removed from his post as the chief of Russia’s Air Force, in what appears to be Kremlin’s most public action against those connected to the armed rebellion of the mercenary warlord Yevgeny V. Prigozhin in June.

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“The speed at which the Russian Govt has confirmed Yevgeny Prigozhin was on a plane that crashed on a flight from Moscow to St Petersburg should tell us everything we need to know. Reports Russian Air Defence shot down the plane suggests Putin is sending a very loud message.”

I like that it nearly all articles it says it was a plane crash, above from aljazeera referencing air defence shooting down his plane.

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Suicide

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Suicided…

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He may have been suicided…

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Pic that is perfectly fitting in this thread. Surprised that huge enthusiasm has pettered out so suddenly . Could not believe that .
ONE MINUTE after the news hit the screens the collective woke west media have already announced beyond any shred of doubt WHO DID IT . Just like in NS1/2 case. Geniuses!!! .
Anybody can explain why there iwas such an urgent rush to evacuate all US folks from Bielarus??? 2 days before Prig sky dive??? Interesting coincidence.

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It was an accident

They were aiming at a civilian airliner.

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What are you suggesting?

To my mind it’s not that complicated. Assuming that the plane didn’t spontaneously combust and disintegrate, somebody did something. Without insight into the nuts and bolts of what went down we’re limited to speculation, which hinges on who had an interest in Prigozhin’s demise.

All those who oppose Putin certainly had an interest in Prigozhin’s continued presence as a destabilizing factor. The Kremlin, on the other hand, had fairly straightforward motives. That only really leaves two alternatives: Either Putin himself or those elements of the Russian MoD that Prigozhin had opposed directly. I find the latter an unlikely candidate, given the prevailing climate in Russian halls of power.

Feel free to educate me.

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SRDS, Sudden Russian Death Syndrome

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Looks like it was a clean sweep of the Wagner elite…

From AP news:
The passenger manifest of the plane that went down in Russia is essentially a who’s who of Wagner mercenaries…In all, the other passengers included six of Prigozhin’s lieutenants, along with the three-member flight crew. For company leaders who were called out by the Kremlin as traitors to travel together on a single flight appeared to be an extraordinary breach of security. The purpose of the trip was unknown.

Sharks never sleep, lest they be eaten by sharks. So why did all of these goons set themselves up like idiots? My guess is Putin threatened to liquidate their families if they didn’t board that plane for the “meeting”.

Easy to understand why the Ukrainians are fighting so hard not to fall back under a system where this kind of butchery is as common as holding a bake sale in the US.

No tears for any of the goons though. Prigozhin was also the leader of the Russian troll factories who tried to influence American- and world-elections. And in the end who took him out? CIA? MIA? Mossad? Nope. His own boss. Brilliant.

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Educate You??? Are You kidding me ?.

From your comments here I do not feel competent to educate You especialy in technical matters and as to the proxy war, which the United States and collective west wage against Russia using Ukrainians as a cannon fodder, I will leave your education to folks mentioned below. Just do some research please.

I am not interested in 5 “Ws” , except one : WHO . And I can not contradict your assesment, which represents only a partial range of possibilities, narrowing the range of possible culprits to only TWO.

This we may never know or know years from now, as collective west media shape the opinion of the public in such a way , that anything Ruskies say is a lie and/or propaganda, which is the hangover from the cold war.
This is how woke cancel culture mechanism works . Delete other opinion , shut it down, introduce jamming.

And I am sort of dissapointed, as through Your comments, You have appeared to have analytical and critical mind at least in technical matters. Which i regret to say failed in confrontation with the opinions of the persons below.

Scott Ritter
Douglas Macgregor
George Galloway
Prof Jeffrey Sachs
Judge Napolitano
Larry Johnson
Matthew Hoh
Ray McGovern
Prof. John Mearsheimer
Oliver Stone.
Just to mention a few .

In addition such channels like Stephen Gardner, The Grayzone, The Dive with Jackson Hinkle, The Duran and scores of other provide a DIFFERENT POINT OF VIEW on the military operations in Ukraine. I have used the capital letters to distinguish it from the TRUTH.

I know that gCaptain is a left leaning joint ( figured that from comments on their FB profile years ago, where commentators criticised the site admins for too much politics and commie views ) , where survivors of McCarthy pogroms and deciples of prof. Richard D.Wolff may find refuge and thrive. So I know the odds here and it does not bother me at all.

But I do not need the WAPO and NYT braiwashed individuals with diagnosable and visible symptoms of cognitive dissonanse , who never spend “an hour” behind the iron curtain , sitting comfortably thousand of miles from where the action is, telling me the “truth” of what happens just under my nose. Especially when this revelations come from media prostitutes.

Beats me why such topics /threads are even allowed in here , where maritime topics are suposed to be debated. Surely Prig sky dive is not one of them. Cheers.

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Do we KNOW that Prigozhin was a treat to Putin, or his “enemy”?
What is know:

  • He was a “protégée” of Putin and owed his position and wealth to him.
  • They were both from St. Petersburg and Putin claim to have known him since the early 1990s.

So that leave some questions:

  • Did Putin take this ex-convict and “hotdog seller” under his wings out of compassion, or because he saw some use for him in his plans for the future?
  • Did Prigozhin ever upper a word of criticism of Putin, or only of the Defence Minister and the top Generals of the Russian Army?

What appears to be known is:

  • After his failed attempt to “march on Moscow” to overthrow the Generals he was “pardoned” by Putin and even had a meeting with him in Kremlin as few days later.
  • He was left in charge of the Wagner Group", another product of Putin’s plan for the future.
  • He was allowed to go to Belarus with 8000 of his men.
  • A few weeks later he was in St. Petersburg during the Russia-Africa meeting.

More questions:

  • He is supposed to have been in Africa to visit some of the Wager mercenaries there just before this “accident”. The aircraft he was in took off from Moscow and was heading to St. Petersburg.
  • Had he been reporting to Putin on his trip to Africa?

Who “orchestrated” this crash, (if it was not actually an accident)we will probably never
know for sure. No matter what comes out of any Russian investigation it will NEVER be believed by those who “knew what happened the moment they heard the news”.

At least the US DDO has stated that is was NOT a rocket attack, from the ground or from the air.
Not sure if that will stop people from “believing” it was the case though.

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Dude, it’s in the subject title: Scuttlebutt.

As in, Putin scuttled Prigozhin’s butt.

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It sounds like only Al Jazeera is claiming Putin did it. I haven’t read all of the “woke West media” though so maybe I missed something.

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Dude, love your witted response :wink:
. But …speaking about buts , " Scuttlebutt in slang usage means rumor or gossip , deriving from the nautical term for the cask used to serve water" so by default a casual visitor may expect maritime scuttlebutt and not woke media b.s. blind copies .

Ships get scuttled so Putin may have scuttled Prig what gives a maritime ring to it. Love that.