[QUOTE=dmc;140286]We tried that 8/4/4/8 scenario and it was the worst watch schedule I ever tried to work under, and will never ever attempt that again. [/QUOTE]
and why pray tell? pulling 12 straight is a bitch when weather is miserable and you are fatigued just holding on. anyone can do 12/12 when it is flat calm but when a vessel is rolling its guts out, give me any relieve from that bridge even for 4 hours.
Usually I’d rather see someone start a new thread than revive one that is over a year old.
I really like 6/6. I absolutely hate 12/12; its too long with too much fatigue at the end of the watch. Plus, if I have to be out there on the boat anyway, I’d rather get paid for 6/6, than have another mate for 4/8, but make a lower day rate
I do like the Canadian tug watch system where the mates do 6/6, and the master does not stand a watch.
The hell with working with the same guy for 12 hours straight. My deckhand an I get along great and enjoy working together and breaking balls but after 6 hours we don’t mind going separate ways. Hell my wife and I need a break after a few hours.
Oh my God why is it so hard for y’all to stay awake for 12 hours?
Might not be bad from 0600-1800hr but would SUCK 1800-0600. The 6 on 6 off works fine for me and would hate to lose pay to a 4-8 watch.
Steering in pilotage water for 6 hours with wafi’s etc is enough. A man need time to clear his mind more so than sleep. I usually only sleep 6-8 hours a day onboard, hate to say it. Usually a 4.5 and a 3. No issue staying up but I need to get out of the wheelhouse after 6 hours.
[QUOTE=Fraqrat;140314]Oh my God why is it so hard for y’all to stay awake for 12 hours?[/QUOTE]
The biggest problem is off watch duties and call outs. Work six hours, then get a call out three hours later for arrival or departure for a couple hours, no problem. Work 12 hours, then get a call out two hours later for a couple hours for an arrival, then get another call out six hours later for departure, then stand watch again for 12 hours? No effin’ way.
I won’t even get into bar crossings, cargo work, cooking, paperwork, and “emergency” emails and calls from the office (none of which are important enough to get the captain out of bed for).
No sir. Twelve hour watches are a very bad idea.
I ran a 150’ Mini Supply boat doing survey work. We ran with two Captains and two Deckineers. You would spend 12 hours making one and two degree corrections on the Auto pilot until you came to the end of your line and then make a semi Willamson Turn back around to pick up the next line. My decky couldn’t run the auto pilot long enough for me to hit the head without hitting the dodge button. Then he could never remember how to disengage it. On top of that, the Auto pilot was just out of reach enough that you couldn’t sit in the chair and reach it so you had to stand the whole 12 hours. I used to make my decky stay in the wheelhouse from 3 am until the sun came up to help keep me awake. I kind of liked working 6 and 6 because you were either working, eating or sleeping. What I didn’t like about it was you went to work twice a day so it seemed like working twice as long. The one time I worked 4 and 8 I had the 8-12. I felt like I was on vacation.
Ok I’m a little confused since I’ve never worked on a tug. I could see the congested waters thing and needing a breather. If you have an inexperienced mate I can see all the up and down. What if your mate is experienced? Why can’t he do paperwork and you proof read and sign when you’re up? Why can’t he take phone calls? I thought once you hit the top spot it was all about delegating? The engine room on a tug isn’t complicated, why can’t the engineer help with some of this cooking and paperwork. Back when we ran 5-6 man crew on the old 180’ mud boats I helped the captain out with all manner of stuff. I hear so much about OSV chiefs can’t work on anything and will never make it on a tug. Yet all the new hire tug engineers I’ve ran into lately say it’s a bummer because they don’t get their nap/tv time while on watch like they did on the tug. The engineer is an officer onboard the tug why can’t some of the administrative things be delegated to him?
We ran 12hr watches doing shipwork, but if there was no work everyone went to bed & each bunk room had a phone in it so the dispatcher could call you if they needed you.
The old man here delegates his share of work to me, and the only time we get him up is when he is actually needed. I’d say maybe an hour a week at the most. If the office needs him they call during his watch or ask me to answer their question. Worse case he can call them back later. Mates are usually expected to handle the watch %100 and everything that comes with it except for an emergency situation which is why it takes so much experience to actually be turned loose. I don’t see a work load issue at all for us. It’s just what we do works far better in 6 hour doses than 12s.
We break watch whenever it’s safe to do so, always with someone keeping an eye on the boat though. No reason not to get a few hours extra sleep when you can. Captains that don’t allow that don’t make any sense.
It’s the Lax Manning requirements that don’t make sense to me. But I think 6/6 is a lot better than 12/12.
It all depends on the company, the geographic area, the type of trade, crew size, crew capability, the customs of the trade, and company policies.
Tugs are often sailing with only four or maybe five men. Mostly old men. Six or more in the crew has become very unusual. Usually, the entire crew is needed to make and break tow, cross a bar, tie up the barge, and handle and lash cargo.
I think it would be fair to say that on the West Coast the custom in the trade is that the captain is normally up and in control of the tug,or at least watching over the mate, while in pilotage waters. The captain does all barge landings. Normally, the captain pilots and lands the barge by radio while standing on the side of the barge that is going alongside the dock. The captain radios engine and rudder commands to the tug, and the assist boat, if there is one. Many companies have policy manuals that specify these details. Some companies will allow the captain to run the tug while landing the barge if he has good visibility over it, some won’t. Some companies will allow the captain to run the tug and use the mate as a distance caller. A couple of companies routinely do tow line landings, but most will not not allow that. Tow line sailings are generally allowed. There are no manned barges on the West Coast. Many docks have big tides and line handlers are often nonexistent. The ability of the tug crew to be able to put slip lines around pilings is important, until someone can climb a ladder to handle lines. Many places there are no longshoremen and the tug crew has to handle the cargo. Sometimes the mates are fully capable, sometimes they are green as grass, sometimes they might be very capable somewhere else but have no local knowledge, sometimes they are very capable with some exceptions, usually they are somewhere in between.
Certain places are special cases. The captain cannot stay up for five or six days all the way through the Inside Passage of BC and Southeast Alaska. The custom is that the captain will be up for the more challenging places, such as Active Pass, Seymour Narrows, Boat Bluff, Wrangell Narrows, and many more. Nor can most captains cross the Columbia River Bar and stay up for 20 hours of close passes with fast moving downbound ships and overtakings by upbound ships all the way to Portland.
The custom on the East Coast is that the captain and the mate are assumed to be pretty much equally capable and each run their own watch doing whatever needs to be done. The captain or the mate runs the tug and uses a deckhand as a distance caller while landing the barge. The ability of the deckhand to accurately call distances in English is sometimes doubtful. In the East Coast oil trade, barges are usually manned by two experienced tankermen to call distances and the barges have winches to tie up the barge. The docks always have linehandlers. The tugs in the oil trade have upper pilothouses with good visibility. I have never heard of a tug crew handling cargo on the East Coast; the longshoremen do that.
Certain companies, such as Crowley, seem to generally use the West Coast method of doing things wherever they operate.
No doubt there are many different variations that I have never seen.
There is a very big difference between running a tug with four or five men on a two thousand mile voyage with a dozen port calls, and running a DP mudboat with 15 men back and forth between one rig and one dock.
This is a shitty deal sounds like there needs to be a 2nd and 3rd captain onboard. All kidding aside before DP the old mud boats had some all hands evolutions. Most mates were sea buoy mates and drove the bus from there to rig and back. The captain handled the boat at the rig and in port. That was 15+ years ago so hopefully times catch up to you guys. You would think the unions would pressure the CG to increase manning but that’s another thread. I wonder if being inspected vessels will eventually have an impact on increased COI manning? I remember when there was no A/E’s and you were lucky to have a wiper/QMED. I slept in a hammock in the ER, the galley, on the bridge everywhere but my rack. I don’t miss those days at all.
[QUOTE=tugsailor;140349]It all depends on the company, the geographic area, the type of trade, crew size, crew capability, the customs of the trade, and company policies.
Tugs are often sailing with only four or maybe five men. Mostly old men. Six or more in the crew has become very unusual. Usually, the entire crew is needed to make and break tow, cross a bar, tie up the barge, and handle and lash cargo.
I think it would be fair to say that on the West Coast the custom in the trade is that the captain is normally up and in control of the tug,or at least watching over the mate, while in pilotage waters. The captain does all barge landings. Normally, the captain pilots and lands the barge by radio while standing on the side of the barge that is going alongside the dock. The captain radios engine and rudder commands to the tug, and the assist boat, if there is one. Many companies have policy manuals that specify these details. Some companies will allow the captain to run the tug while landing the barge if he has good visibility over it, some won’t. Some companies will allow the captain to run the tug and use the mate as a distance caller. A couple of companies routinely do tow line landings, but most will not not allow that. Tow line sailings are generally allowed. There are no manned barges on the West Coast. Many docks have big tides and line handlers are often nonexistent. The ability of the tug crew to be able to put slip lines around pilings is important, until someone can climb a ladder to handle lines. Many places there are no longshoremen and the tug crew has to handle the cargo. Sometimes the mates are fully capable, sometimes they are green as grass, sometimes they might be very capable somewhere else but have no local knowledge, sometimes they are very capable with some exceptions, usually they are somewhere in between.
Certain places are special cases. The captain cannot stay up for five or six days all the way through the Inside Passage of BC and Southeast Alaska. The custom is that the captain will be up for the more challenging places, such as Active Pass, Seymour Narrows, Boat Bluff, Wrangell Narrows, and many more. Nor can most captains cross the Columbia River Bar and stay up for 20 hours of close passes with fast moving downbound ships and overtakings by upbound ships all the way to Portland.
The custom on the East Coast is that the captain and the mate are assumed to be pretty much equally capable and each run their own watch doing whatever needs to be done. The captain or the mate runs the tug and uses a deckhand as a distance caller while landing the barge. The ability of the deckhand to accurately call distances in English is sometimes doubtful. In the East Coast oil trade, barges are usually manned by two experienced tankermen to call distances and the barges have winches to tie up the barge. The docks always have linehandlers. The tugs in the oil trade have upper pilothouses with good visibility. I have never heard of a tug crew handling cargo on the East Coast; the longshoremen do that.
Certain companies, such as Crowley, seem to generally use the West Coast method of doing things wherever they operate.
No doubt there are many different variations that I have never seen.
There is a very big difference between running a tug with four or five men on a two thousand mile voyage with a dozen port calls, and running a DP mudboat with 15 men back and forth between one rig and one dock.[/QUOTE]
Well said. As usual. Thxs
Yes I’d agree on extra hands but they just aren’t out there. And at that rate you’re more likely to get someone without the skills or someone you can’t trust that defeats the whole purpose of it. Hopefully the coi’s will do something but unfortunately it’s been done in secret. I find it highly unlikely the 2 watch/officer system on tugs will go anywhere. My money is on a licensed engineer with the addition of an assistant if not qmed depending on route, although that’s becoming normal at the better companies. The unfortunate/fortunate thing is that we have operated relatively safely with 2 guys that they don’t have the bad press enough for public outcry to change it.
My selfish hope is that when they can’t find licensed engineers they will have to increase the pay significantly which will undoubtedly trickle up to the wheelhouse as well, seeing as mates and licensed engineers usually are about the same $ in this trade. Disadvantage is the opportunity for someone to sail as an unlicensed engineer gaining the sea time and experience on good horsepower.
[QUOTE=Fraqrat;140355]This is a shitty deal sounds like there needs to be a 2nd and 3rd captain onboard. All kidding aside before DP the old mud boats had some all hands evolutions. Most mates were sea buoy mates and drove the bus from there to rig and back. The captain handled the boat at the rig and in port. That was 15+ years ago so hopefully times catch up to you guys. You would think the unions would pressure the CG to increase manning but that’s another thread. I wonder if being inspected vessels will eventually have an impact on increased COI manning? I remember when there was no A/E’s and you were lucky to have a wiper/QMED. I slept in a hammock in the ER, the galley, on the bridge everywhere but my rack. I don’t miss those days at all.[/QUOTE]
I am looking forward to inspected tugs, especially a COI that sets the crew size. There is no way the USCG is going to authorize a four man crew on the COI of an outside tug.
I was just hired on by a local tugboat company as a deckhand/cook. However, I am new to the marine & tugboat industry so I am clueless when it comes to good gear.
BOOTS:
What do you recommend I look for when buying my steel toe boots? Waterproof? Not waterproof? Special boot features to keep an eye out for?..etc.
CLOTHING: What do I wear?
Thank you in advance for your help. I really appreciate any words of wisdom that you can pass along.
Lots of guys wear the Wellington style slip on steel toe boots now days : clothes I guess it depends on the weather , being a deckhand Deff some old clothes that you don’t mind getting paint and grease on etc, I wouldn’t go buy a 60 pair of carhart pants just to fit in, make sure you have some comfy shoes for inside , nikes etc and some flip flops /shower shoes