Prospective Student with a lot of questions - GLMA

Maritime Academy
1

Hey everyone,

I’ve been browsing this forum quite a bit gathering the myriad perspectives that everyone has on the seven maritime academies. While I did find a wealth of information from other people addressing maritime academy questions, I’d love to get some more details about what life might be like during and after the Great Lakes Maritime Academy.

A bit about me - I’m 23, just graduated with my Bachelor of Arts, I majored in Environmental Politics. I’m not really interested in a degree option, I just want my license - which is the main reason I’m attracted to GLMA because I can finish in three years. I’m also attracted to it because it certifies you to sail on the Great Lakes and the open ocean.

The main reason I’m attracted to becoming a mariner is because I’ve traveled the world already, and I want to continue to do so. I feel like this is a great way to do that (please do correct me if I’m wrong, according to your own experience with travel). I feel like being a mariner is one of the last ways to get a decent dose of exploration and adventure in one’s life. I simply cannot stand working a desk job, and I’d much rather be popping to and from Greece, Singapore, etc. Also, being away from home is totally no problem for me. I find it kind of enlightening actually, to be removed from society/cell phones/internet, etc. I think I would enjoy constantly being on the road [sea].

I know that I primarily want to work with Research Vessels. I know most of the work that pays the best is for big oil drilling and extraction and shipping companies. I don’t want to do that for deep moral and ethical reasons unless I really have to. However, I think I’d really enjoy either doing shipping/transport of material goods, or research - with universities, NGOs, and groups like NOAA. Can you guys let me know a bit about the job opportunities here? I’ve looked at the salaries and even the wages for captains are somewhat low, about $40k/year. I would happily get by on that much money if I loved what I was doing. The way I kind of imagine it is going on expeditions in Antarctica, or the Great Barrier Reef, or all over the Pacific/Atlantic/Gulf for that matter - there is a ton of research going on all the time in these locales, and as somewhat of a nerd I’d love to be a part of it (albeit from a technical rather than scientific side).

Can people who have visited or attended GLMA tell me a bit about it? Why did you decide to go there (or why did you decide to not go there?) What are your peers like? Your professors? How is the industry experience? How do you think it compares with other academies? Is it just as easy to get jobs on the ocean as it is on the lakes? What opportunities are available to you now? How do you enjoy the mariner lifestyle? And, if it’s not too personal, what’s your general salary? What’s the town of Traverse City like? I hear it’s an older crowd and it’s somewhat more laid-back. My only other real option, tuition-wise, is SUNY Maritime, but I have heard accounts of that experience being absolutely hellish, and the dorms/the locale I don’t find particularly attractive. The website is extremely counterintuitive, navigation-wise, and it’s been a bit tough acquiring all the information about the program there.

I don’t think I need a B.A. in Marine Transport because I always figure that when I go shoreside, I’ll get my master’s somewhere where there’s a fantastic program, i.e. at the World Maritime University in Sweden. Do you guys think this is a realistic/good option?

Moreover, can you guys tell me whether or not, from how I’ve projected my career expectations, I’m being naive? Every Maritime college posts things like “career placement rate at near 100%” and most students finding a job that makes $60k+/year their first six months after graduating. Browsing these forums, it seems like it may be somewhat harder to get jobs than the maritime academies are making it out to be (obviously, I understand the academies are under pressure to enroll as many students as possible, so they make the maritime field sound particularly desirable).

If you guys would please help me out and tell me a bit about your experience, in as much detail as you’d care share, I’d really love to hear from some of you who have been in the field for awhile, especially GLMA graduates. Thanks in advance to anyone who reads this and takes the time to answer.

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Great Lakes shipping is dead right now and the research vessels you dream of are ocean going. Go to SUNY’s masters degree program, license track. You will get a MS in business and a 3m license in three years.

3

The only advantage to sailing RV’s is to paraphrase Matthew McConaughey as the wise Dave Wooderson in the independent classic Dazed and Confused,
“That’s what I love about these research assistants, man. I get older, they stay the same age.”

If you want to go that rout at least you know you will be broke, but hey you get to sail to different places and be surround by coeds. That $40k is for the master, you will be a 3rd making half that most of the time. Along with the fact that it will take you 5+ years to get the sea time you need to upgrade those master spots don’t open up all that often as they are taken by old guys who made their money and are for the most part retired.

Commercial Deep sailing is no longer what you think it is, in the post 9/11 world nobody leaves the boat, and with container boats having 24 hour turn around times, no one has the ability to anyway. Better stay away from bulk shipping to as they some times carry minerals that come out of mines that are way worse for the environment then oil.

Bachelor of Arts in Environmental Politics??? Wow that just reeks of liberal indoctrination. Couple that with a moral objection to having anything to do with the oil business your professors must be so proud! To bad they don’t have to pay for you’re schooling, because from what I read above you just wasted a whole lot of time and somebodies money getting a worthless piece of paper. You put it out there so I’m going to bust your balls about it, sorry but you are the focus of my disgust with the modern college system producing thousands of graduates a year with degrees that have no practical application.

You’re best bet is to suck it up, go to one of the Workboat Academy programs, and get on with a supply boat company on your sea time portion of your program. While actually working realize that your environmental professors are full of shit about the evil’s of big oil and understand that because they have never held a real job very little of what they have taught you has no bearing on the real world. Get a good paying job and work 6 months out of the year. Then you can go visit any where in the world you want to on your off time and still have enough left over to pay off the scary amount of student loans you probably have.

4

Agree with Jemplayer but would like to offer a second option - consider an enlistment in the USCG. They are big into environmental protection which seems to be an interest of yours. After your enlistment, you can elect to re-up or work in the Safety, health & enviromental area for ship companies or consulting firms.

From my perspective, at 23 with a degree under your belt, you need a paying job which provides experience in you feild of interest.

5

With a bachelors degree he can direct commission in the coast guard. It’s a four week course, then ensign.

6

“Deep moral and ethical reasons” …wow

I love these comments as they are typed on a computer made of plastic. I think he should forgo the schooling and join Sea Shepherd. No license or experience required there. Then he can put his environmental politics degree to good use. Where do these people come from? Based on their beliefs I imagine a giant hippy commune where everyone lives in a grass hut and wears hemp clothing. They walk everywhere they go and live off the land. Sadly they own cars and live and shop at the same place the rest of us do.

7

NOAA might have you with your degree but only as a commissioned officer. You would spend 16 weeks in BOTC before they let you conn a ship. You also could start with NOAA as unlicensed to see if you even like it. That would be my suggestion.

Also I’d like to dismiss the misconception that research vessels don’t pay well. Last year with 180 days of sea time as 3rd/2nd officer on a research vessel I pulled a six figure salary. Hell, the second cook in my outfit makes about 70k! The down side is that in with my outfit there is no rotation so the only off time is when on leave or in home port.

8

I knew from browsing the forums that I’d get flamed for mentioning my environmental concerns, but I didn’t suspect that I’d only receive one helpful reply out of all of the comments. I don’t have time (actually, just don’t give a damn enough) to sit on my computer for a great deal of time and cite the overwhelming amount of scientific data that strongly suggests that the health of the environment and ocean is being drastically and negatively impacted by anthropogenic activity. For those who actually have a BA or BS outside of the Maritime Academies and can read a scientific article, as a simple matter of fact there is no room for debate in this area. If the majority of scientists are unanimously in agreement with the condition of the climate and its implications on a sustainable human future, what do I care about convincing a few salty old dogs with a meritocratic sense of self-worth with too much time to sit around and flame me on the internet?

I was rather looking for actual constructive and applicable advice, so I very much appreciate the one commenter who suggested SUNY’s Masters program. I’ll look into it. I do find it pertinent to mention that I have plentiful job opportunities working with environmental policy in D.C. and San Fran, but due to the reasons I listed above I’m more attracted to a Maritime career (albeit for apparently naïve reasons). I suppose I’ll weigh in the first commentator’s thoughts into my final decision, so thank you gcaptain, for being moderately helpful throughout this experience.

9

Bloody, that’s really helpful as well - thanks!

10

Wants to be a mariner but doesn’t want to work for a shipping company. . . . . . . . . . . . Yeah, I know there are other options, but still. . . .

1 Like
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Also I’d like to dismiss the misconception that research vessels don’t pay well. Last year with 180 days of sea time as 3rd/2nd officer on a research vessel I pulled a six figure salary. Hell, the second cook in my outfit makes about 70k! The down side is that in with my outfit there is no rotation so the only off time is when on leave or in home port.

Do you work for a state school or the government or a private company? Ever public sector job I’ve ever seen has been low low numbers.

How often do you go out on jobs paid for by an oil company?

I’ve done some research jobs while running mini supplies and the first job I went out on related to research was a group from The University Of Mississippi studying frozen hydrocarbons. Basically gas that has frozen solid because of the pressure and temp at the sea floor. We got the job because Louisiana’s boat Pelican had trouble getting there COI after doing some work at shipyard.

So even if you go work for the state you will still end up working with something related to the oil and gas field eventually.

And will someone explain to me why NOAA feels the need to have a 16 week officer cadet course that is like a miniature navy? They come off as a military organization and I fond it kind of unsettling.

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  1. I work for NOAA. Only the base salary is advertised. Overtime is after 8 hours and on weekends/holidays. It is not unusual for anyone on a NOAA ship to double their base salary with overtime.

  2. In my ten years, never.

  3. The 16 weeks of training is for Officer Cadets in the NOAA corps. They have a commission from the President just like any Naval officer… The difference is all of these guys/gals have science or engineering backgrounds and don’t have guns!

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[QUOTE=Capt. Phoenix;79200]With a bachelors degree he can direct commission in the coast guard. It’s a four week course, then ensign.[/QUOTE]

17 weeks but still another option. Actually a better option than going enlisted. See link:

http://www.gocoastguard.com/find-your-career/officer-opportunities/programs/officer-candidate-school

14

I wish anyone seeking an active duty commission with the Navy, Coast Guard, or NOAA Corps through an OCS or direct commission program the best of luck. You have to be the absolute best of the best right now to have any chance. Stellar GPA, entrance exam score, and be the spiffiest lad they ever did see. There are so many people seeking these commissions right now its crazy…

15

Opinions are like elbows, everyone has them. However if you are going to spend the money and three years going to a maritime school, you might as well go to SUNY and get your MS degree in addition to your third mates license. It is logical, cost effective as it sets you up should sailing not work our for you and not a waste of your time.

With that being said, NOAA is not easy to get a job with contrary to what might be posted. You have to wait for a OPM posting, and then hope that NOAA has an opening for a third mate. Since NOAA ships are mostly manned by NOAA Corps Commissioned Officers that can be difficult and time consuming. NOAA Commissioned Corps is fine if you don’t mind making ensign pay. Also as posted earlier NOAA is fine if you don’t mind spending most of your time away at sea on 209 ft vessels with 30 other people. Yes you can make a lot in overtime, but you can make even more just working 6 months a year rather than 10. Also you’d be better off going for the money, because you can spend your off time traveling. Going to sea like others have posted is a myth today, it was that way 40 years ago. Today you spend hours in port and most time you don’t have the time to go ashore if it is at all possible.

Finally, open up your mind you are young and haven’t been around. Oil companies are not evil contrary to what you believe. If you are going to be away from home, make as much as possible. Anything else is just spinning your wheels.

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[QUOTE=Jemplayer;79177]

Commercial Deep sailing is no longer what you think it is, in the post 9/11 world nobody leaves the boat, and with container boats having 24 hour turn around times, no one has the ability to anyway. Better stay away from bulk shipping to as they some times carry minerals that come out of mines that are way worse for the environment then oil.

Bachelor of Arts in Environmental Politics??? Wow that just reeks of liberal indoctrination. Couple that with a moral objection to having anything to do with the oil business your professors must be so proud! To bad they don’t have to pay for you’re schooling, because from what I read above you just wasted a whole lot of time and somebodies money getting a worthless piece of paper. You put it out there so I’m going to bust your balls about it, sorry but you are the focus of my disgust with the modern college system producing thousands of graduates a year with degrees that have no practical application. [/QUOTE]

I do appreciate you telling me how it is with commercial deep sailing in the modern day. My degree however is by no means worthless, I have policy jobs available in San Fran and D.C. but (for the reasons I stated above) I’d like to take my career in a different direction. I can’t expect someone who likely has a low level of education himself (anyone with a B.A. will tell you your writing is atrocious - one learns the differences between ‘you’re’ and ‘your’, ‘to’ and ‘too’ in elementary school), nor someone filled with such a falsely placed meritocratic sense of self importance to recognize the economic return inherent in such a degree, which just so happens to be directly applicable to the public policy sector, management in the environmental sector (which includes oil/gas companies, by the way), NGO and INGO work, etc… I don’t want to do these things because, like I said, I’d rather not work at a desk at this point in my life. It’s absolutely not a matter of what’s available to me, rather it’s a matter of preference.

Many of the responses to my original questions have been quite helpful. I especially, and objectively, welcome critiques of my ignorance (considering the fact I know nothing about this field) and, for those who took advantage of that invitation to respond in a constructive manner, I thank you.

I will definitely look into SUNY Maritime’s M.Sc., because through correspondence with them it’s likely I’d be able to finish the program with license within 2.5 years. I also plan to explore some of the other options that were mentioned, including opportunities available with NOAA and USCG, so I hope you’ll welcome questions from me regarding these suggestions. In the meantime, I continue to welcome constructive commentary based on my original questions and aspirations.

Thanks again, guys.

17

I was referring to this:

http://www.gocoastguard.com/find-your-career/officer-opportunities/programs/direct-commission-programs

I guess he doesn’t qualify for any of those options though…

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[QUOTE=leadline;79317]Opinions are like elbows, everyone has them. However if you are going to spend the money and three years going to a maritime school, you might as well go to SUNY and get your MS degree in addition to your third mates license. It is logical, cost effective as it sets you up should sailing not work our for you and not a waste of your time.

With that being said, NOAA is not easy to get a job with contrary to what might be posted. You have to wait for a OPM posting, and then hope that NOAA has an opening for a third mate. Since NOAA ships are mostly manned by NOAA Corps Commissioned Officers that can be difficult and time consuming. NOAA Commissioned Corps is fine if you don’t mind making ensign pay. Also as posted earlier NOAA is fine if you don’t mind spending most of your time away at sea on 209 ft vessels with 30 other people. Yes you can make a lot in overtime, but you can make even more just working 6 months a year rather than 10. Also you’d be better off going for the money, because you can spend your off time traveling. Going to sea like others have posted is a myth today, it was that way 40 years ago. Today you spend hours in port and most time you don’t have the time to go ashore if it is at all possible.

Finally, open up your mind you are young and haven’t been around. Oil companies are not evil contrary to what you believe. If you are going to be away from home, make as much as possible. Anything else is just spinning your wheels.[/QUOTE]

How does one advance from O-1 to O-8/O-10 pay? Is it just time, experience, further education, who you know? I don’t understand how military pay grades work or how much upward mobility is available in NOAA or the USCG.

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If you only want to sail 6 months instead of all year with NOAA, look into SUNY’s grad-license program. You already have a B.S, so why get another one? The SUNY grad-license program is the fastest way to a license.

20

Good God All Mighty - Do you want to be a movie star or do you want to go to sea for a living?
Sorry for my curt remarks. I’ve got to realize the US Maritime situation is not even close to what it was a haft century ago when I started. Back then, if one desired a life at deep sea sailing it was a wide open opportunity, today, sadly, it isn’t.
The best of luck to you.