[QUOTE=Kraken;153433]Was it Pieter Schelte who personally invaded and killed all the Norwegians? No? Then I have no problem with the name.[/QUOTE]
and so every Nazi who didn’t invade Norway is peachy in your book eh? Doesn’t matter how many they killed? Do we know if Pieter Schelte did or did not kill anyone? He led a 4000 strong forced labor battalion…certainly some of those slave laborers had to be killed for disobedience or did he treat every one under his command like a brother?
How many Nazi sympathizers like you living in Norway today?
[QUOTE=Kraken;153433]Was it Pieter Schelte who personally invaded and killed all the Norwegians? No? Then I have no problem with the name.[/QUOTE]
Hitler, Stalin, Tojo, Mao, Kim Il-Sung, Ceaușescu, and Leopold II didn’t personally kill many people, but I don’t think I’d name ships after them. If they can dig up evidence that shows that this significant involvement with the resistance actually did more good than his SS service did harm, I say make the case and keep the name. If they can’t, the appropriate thing to do is just change it. I would rather invest in some paint than deal with the complications that can come with being stubborn in defense of an SS officer. At least he wasn’t SS-Totenkopfverbände, I guess.
[QUOTE=Glaug-Eldare;153427]It was a foolish and abominable reason to secede, but in my opinion a legal one.[/QUOTE]
what is legal or illegal in war is left for the victor to decide. The Confederacy lost and thus everything the Confederacy did was WRONG and they are the ones to BLAME!
[QUOTE=Glaug-Eldare;153435]Hitler, Stalin, Tojo, Mao, Kim Il-Sung, Ceaușescu, and Leopold II didn’t personally kill many people, but I don’t think I’d name ships after them. If they can dig up evidence that shows that this significant involvement with the resistance actually did more good than his SS service did harm, I say make the case and keep the name. If they can’t, the appropriate thing to do is just change it. I would rather invest in some paint than deal with the complications that can come with being stubborn in defense of an SS officer. At least he wasn’t SS-Totenkopfverbände, I guess.[/QUOTE]
It’s a private company. I personally would not have bothered with the PR of naming the ship Pieter Schelte, but this is not my call.
[QUOTE=c.captain;153437]what is legal or illegal in war is left for the victor to decide. The Confederacy lost and thus everything the Confederacy did was WRONG and they are the ones to BLAME![/QUOTE]
Yep. Might makes right, a cherished Constitutional principle. :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=c.captain;153432]and this is something you are proud of there in Finland? That you there fought alongside Nazis? Do you celebrate the day Germany invaded the Soviet Union there?[/QUOTE]
I wouldn’t say I’m particularly proud of the fact that we fought alongside Germany at that time, but I’m not ashamed of it either. Unlike pretty much every other country invaded by the Soviet Union, we kept our independence, and that was largely thanks due to German military assistance in the 1940s. What else could we have done? Welcomed the communists with open arms?
[QUOTE=c.captain;153437]what is legal or illegal in war is left for the victor to decide. The Confederacy lost and thus everything the Confederacy did was WRONG and they are the ones to BLAME![/QUOTE]
By this logic if the English lost they should have all been charged with war crimes for all the civilians they killed? Of course they would take the blame for starting the war with Germany too as they rejected peace offers and declared war on Germany.
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A difficult situation. Let’s hope it never happens again.
I believe it was Curtis Lemay who said “if we had lost, we would be the war criminals” or something to that effect. The American civil war is seemingly the only war in history that has had the history is written by the looser.
Anyway. As to the ships name, it doesn’t bother me.
Rather it is good to get people talking about history. Maybe people will look farther than the comment section and read a little. So much “common knowlege” comes from newspaper headlines and propaganda.
Arthur “Bomber” Harris WAS a war criminal but just not charged because he was on the side of the victors.
A difficult situation. Let’s hope it never happens again.
indeed sir…very true indeed
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he did and certainly would have been tried as one for his ordering of the fire bombing of Japanese civilians in 1945 that filled hundred upon hundred of thousands
The American civil war is seemingly the only war in history that has had the history is written by the looser.
let me also just say regarding the US Civil War that unlike WWII the vanquished were not forced to erase all symbols of their past which led to the conflict but in all cases, the losers were the aggressors and started the war with their actions. Germany forbade all symbols of Nazism and Japan foreswore all militarism in their new constitution yet the American south was allowed to retain the Confederate flag which I believe was a terrible mistake so now today there remains a split in the US which will not ever be healed as a result. The US south was never forced to foreswear their secessionist past which was WRONG for the nation!
America’s bloodiest and most needless war never has ended even to this day. It was started for horrible reasons but the vanquished somehow still believe their cause was just. IT WASN’T THEN AND NEVER WILL BE!
[QUOTE=c.captain;153485]let me also just say regarding the US Civil War that unlike WWII the vanquished were not forced to erase all symbols of their past which led to the conflict but in all cases, the losers were the aggressors and started the war with their actions. Germany forbade all symbols of Nazism and Japan foreswore all militarism in their new constitution yet the American south was allowed to retain the Confederate flag which I believe was a terrible mistake so now today there remains a split in the US which will not ever be healed as a result. The US south was never forced to foreswear their secessionist past which was WRONG for the nation!
America’s bloodiest and most needless war never has ended even to this day. It was started for horrible reasons but the vanquished somehow still believe their cause was just. IT WASN’T THEN AND NEVER WILL BE![/QUOTE]
The quintessential Union position – “If the Constitution prevents me from getting what I want, abolish it.” It’s not very honest to make such a big show about “preserving the republic,” while doing your absolute best to violently annihilate everything that republic stands for. The abolition of the Bill of Rights, the wholesale arrests of legislators, judges, and private citizens for political speech, the military occupation of states that never seceded, the outright theft of elections by the army, mandatory loyalty oaths to the Republican administration, the threat of mass murder to respond to political criticism…absolutely nothing that a reasonable person would be sore about. Only some dumb redneck would get bent out of shape about that, and we can always just put him in prison if he expresses any criticism, right? That’s what America’s all about!
You know, I really wished the Union had just left the Confederacy to have their hideous slavery until the day came when they collapsed economically and begged to come back!
Just blockade the ports in the South to cut off all trade with Europe and ten years down the road the Plantation owners are all completely broke. The Confederacy would never been able to build a Navy to challenge that of the Union’s!
[QUOTE=c.captain;153491]You know, I really wished the Union had just left the Confederacy to have their hideous slavery until the day came when they collapsed economically and begged to come back!
Just blockade the ports in the South to cut off all trade with Europe and ten years down the road the Plantation owners are all completely broke. The Confederacy would never been able to build a Navy to challenge that of the Union’s![/QUOTE]
You almost had it, but then you still swerved into an unnecessary war. Violence is not the only diplomatic and economic tool at a country’s disposal, and it wouldn’t have taken anything so obvious to let the CSA’s economic system fail on its own and bring them back, humbled and ready to play ball. It just goes to show me that union warmongers are about as cerebral as Dallas Cowboys fans in the Northeast who, drooling, explain their team choice by “uhhh…they winned a lotta games…tough…strong big mans…”
