Passengers vs. company employees and the need for licensed operators?

Professional Mariner Forum
1

Hello all,

I am trying to get some advice on where the line in drawn between passenger and crew [B]member[/B]…

Also, I am trying to find out if a licensed operator is necessary when all persons on board are employees of the same company and are engaged in ‘the business of that vessel’…

Please read the examples scenarios below. Thanks for the input in advance.

Example 1:

99 ton uninspected passenger vessel/workboat (6 pax)
There are no “passengers for hire” on board.
There is a licensed operator and deckhand operating the vessel.
In addition, to the Capt. and deckhand, there are 8 marine construction workers that are employees of the company that owns the above vessel.

Would the 8 construction workers be considered ‘crew members’ or ‘passengers’? Reading from the definition of “passenger” below, the construction workers are engaged in the 'business of that vessel"…and could be considered crew members? Any one have any experience with the USCG interpretation of this?
Do the dynamics change in this scenario if we add a client into the mix that is a ‘passenger for hire’?

Example 2:

25’ Trailer boat (UPV-6 pax)
6 employees (all from the same company) are on board
There are no ‘passengers for hire’

The six employees go out for the day to do a survey. This is all in house and the employees are all paid their normal wage by the company for this work.
Would anyone be required to have a license on board? Any input on this scenario? How do the employees shake out as far as passenger vs. crew member?

Passenger - Any person on a vessel, other than the owner or an individual representative of the owner or in the caseof vessel under charter, an individual charterer or individual representative of the charterer, master and the membersof the crew, or other any other person employed or engaged in any capacity on board a vessel in the business of thatvessel[I]. 46 USC 2101 (21) and 46 CFR 24.10-1.[/I]
Note: All persons on board are crewmembers, passengers, or National Marine Fisheries Service official observers.

THERE ARE NO GUESTS OR “OTHER” OBSERVERS.

Passenger for Hire - Passenger for whom a consideration is contributed as a condition of carriage whether directlyor indirectly flowing to the owner, charterer, operator, agent, or any other person interested in the vessel is apassenger for hire. [I]46 USC 2101 (21a)
[/I]

Title 33 CFR 160.204, definitions for crewmember and persons in addition tocrewmembers:
As used in this subpart:
Crewmember means all persons carried on board the vessel to provide navigationand maintenance of the vessel, its machinery, systems, and arrangementsessential for propulsion and safe navigation or to provide services for otherpersons on board.

2

Although difficult to read, your quote of the CFR is pretty clear,

definitions for crewmember and persons in addition to crewmembers:
As used in this subpart:
Crewmember means all persons carried on board the vessel to provide navigation and maintenance of the vessel, its machinery, systems, and arrangements essential for propulsion and safe navigation or to provide services for other persons on board

If the construction workers are not assisting in navigation or vessel maintenance then they are passengers.

3

Thanks for the input old salt. I appreciate it.

With that said, it seems like it would be a stretch to have 8 guys on board that you claim as helping with navigation and maintenance…although not impossible. However, that ‘gray area’ might not be so gray if there was an investigation in this scenario.

Taking it one step farther, if there are no paying passengers on board do you even need a licensed captain?

4

I think they might be considered “supercargo” or possibly “persons other than crew”. Look up those terms for more clarification.

5

Here are several definitions that I have dug up…I am trying to confirm what the distinction is between employees on board that assist with marine construction and coastal engineering and crew members. In short, Who is a ‘passenger’ and who is a “crew member”? This is for an Uninspected Vessel less than 100 Tons. If there is on passenger for hire on board does this change the dynamics VS. no passengers for hire on board?
[FONT=Times][I]
Any further insight is greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance. [/I][/FONT]
[FONT=Times][I][FONT=Verdana]B[/B]“passenger”—[/I][/FONT][/FONT]
B[/B]means an individual carried on the vessel except—B[/B] the owner or an individual representative of the owner or, in the case of a vessel under charter, an individual charterer or individual representative of the charterer;
B[/B] the master; or
B[/B] a member of the crew engaged in the business of the vessel who has not contributed consideration for carriage and who is paid for on board services;

[FONT=Times][B]Passenger - [/B]Any person on a vessel, other than the owner or an individual representative of the owner or in the case of vessel under charter, an individual charterer or individual representative of the charterer, master and the members of the crew, or other any other person employed or engaged in any capacity on board a vessel in the business of that vessel[I]. 46 USC 2101 (21) and 46 CFR 24.10-1. [/I][/FONT]

Note: All persons on board are crewmembers, passengers, or National Marine Fisheries Service official observers.
[B]THERE ARE NO GUESTS OR “OTHER” OBSERVERS. [/B]
[FONT=Times][B]Passenger for Hire - [/B]Passenger for whom a consideration is contributed as a condition of carriage whether directly or indirectly flowing to the owner, charterer, operator, agent, or any other person interested in the vessel is a passenger for hire. [I]46 USC 2101 (21a) [/I][/FONT]

Below: Taken from USCG website.
[B]Where do I enter a person that is in addition to the crew (e.g. a processor on a F/V or crew family members) and is not paying passenger?[/B]

Individuals such as processors on fishing vessels, ship riders, and crew family members are not crewmembers because they are not essential for propulsion and safe navigation or to provide services for others onboard. Therefore, they do not meet the definition for crewmember and may be referred to as a “supernumerary”. These individuals should be entered in the non-crew/passenger section and all the required information should be provided for each person.

CFR 33 160.204

[B]Crewmember[/B] means all persons carried on board the vessel to provide naviga- tion and maintenance of the vessel, its machinery, systems, and arrangements essential for propulsion and safe navi- gation or to provide services for other persons on board.

[B]Persons in addition to crewmembers[/B]
mean any person onboard the vessel, including passengers, who are not in- cluded on the list of crewmembers.

[FONT=Verdana]Does anyone know how “business of the vessel” is defined? I have never stumbled across this definition. Would it be " to provide naviga- tion and maintenance of the vessel, its machinery, systems, and arrangements essential for propulsion and safe navi- gation or to provide services for other persons on board."? This is one of the definitions given for ‘crew member’ in CFR 33. [/FONT]