Only in Norway

This from a Norwegian paper today: http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/bergen/takket-nei-til-aa-bli-sluppet-fri-fra-fengsel-fikk-bli-vaerende/a/23786613/

If you have seen some of the documentaries about the conditions in Norwegian prisons you may not be so surprised: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4beUC3-ckw

Here is another prison in Norway. This one is fairly new but more like a normal “old” prison where the main point is locking people up as the main purpose: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Nl0JsPi9jg

I can’t read this. But I’d be willing to learn how if Norway starts investing in Northern Canada. They have the expertise, they have the money, and it would strengthen Norway’s strategic north claims and alliances. We could join the Hurtegruten to the Arctic Archepelgo. It’d be fun! …right? I need a hug.

[QUOTE=Emrobu;189972]I can’t read this. But I’d be willing to learn how if Norway starts investing in Northern Canada. They have the expertise, they have the money, and it would strengthen Norway’s strategic north claims and alliances. We could join the Hurtegruten to the Arctic Archepelgo. It’d be fun! …right? I need a hug.[/QUOTE]

You can apply Google translate and it magically becomes some sort of English.

That’s not the point, sir.

Norway is investing in Canada: http://en.chamber.no/norwegian-investments-strengthens-canadian-economy/

How much is invested in NWT and the Arctic Archipelago I don’t know, but if there are opportunities and the conditions are favourable for it, Norwegian companies would (as you said) be the ideal partners.

As for Hurtigruten expanding into the Canadian Arctic it is very possible, but in the form of cruises, using their new Polar Exploration ships.

Hurtigruten’s cargo, car and pax service to/from 34 places along the Norwegian West and North coast: www.norwegiancoastalcruises.com/route-map.pdf
Something similar could be feasible for Labrador and the Arctic Archipelago, at least the ice free parts. Maybe not daily service as in Norway, but even a weekly service along this model may be an improvement?

For those who are not familiar with the ships servicing in Hurtigruten, here is one of them: http://www.logitravel.co.uk/cruises/decks-ms-finnmarken-16058559.html
https://www.hurtigruten.us/our-ships/ms-finnmarken/

The entire fleet here: https://www.hurtigruten.com/ships/#sort=header&asc=true

Here is one of of the ships arriving and opening the side ramps:

The cargo and car ramp:

In some ports the stop-over is as short as 15 min.

PS> Yes I know about the MV Northern Ranger: http://www.labradorferry.ca/index.php

[QUOTE=ombugge;190000]Norway is investing in Canada: http://en.chamber.no/norwegian-investments-strengthens-canadian-economy/

How much is invested in NWT and the Arctic Archipelago I don’t know, but if there are opportunities and the conditions are favourable for it, Norwegian companies would (as you said) be the ideal partners.

[/QUOTE]

According to that report, investment in the North is not worth mentioning. I guess the conditions are not favorable. There is one example.

Guess he didn’t pay his pilotage fees?

[QUOTE=Emrobu;190007]According to that report, investment in the North is not worth mentioning. I guess the conditions are not favorable. There is one example.
Guess he didn’t pay his pilotage fees?[/QUOTE]

That will not leave a lasting mark in NWT as the hulk will be transported back to Norway, where a museum is planned to house it at, or close by, where it was built 100 years ago: http://www.budstikka.no/vollen/maud-museet/nyheter/vollen-sa-etter-hvert-ja-til-maud-museum/s/5-55-50879#am-commentArea
Sorry, Google Translate will be required again, but this article shouldn’t be too scary to read, I hope.

The wreck has been on the bottom for abt. 85 years, after having been used as a floating warehouse and eventually sinking. It was stripped of everything sticking up above water to use as firewood.

History of the Maud from Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maud_(ship)
This is not entirely correct though. The Maud was meant for a voyage to the North Pole and was frozen into the ice for several year, but never got to the pole: http://www.frammuseum.no/Polar-Expedition/The-Maud-Expedition.aspx

PS> This vessel had nothing to do with Amundsen’s first voyage through the North West Passage. That was on the Gjoa, which is already back in Norway. She can be seen together with Nansen’s Fram at Bygdoy, Oslo.

There’s a village named after Gjoa in Nunavut.

I went to the maritime museum in Bygdoy. They kicked me out because there was too much stuff to look at in one day. Its a really wonderful place. The new Maud museum looks nice.

You’re right about it not being much of an investment. They even brought over a Norwegian flagged tug to do the work. I understand that they have a budget, that they aren’t making any money, and that the Maud is part of Norway’s heritage. But it is our heritage, too. If Norwegians care so much about the Maud, let them come here to see her. Build the museum here, and make it a stop for the cruises.

[QUOTE=Emrobu;190014]There’s a village named after Gjoa in Nunavut.

I went to the maritime museum in Bygdoy. They kicked me out because there was too much stuff to look at in one day. Its a really wonderful place. The new Maud museum looks nice.[/quote]
The Gjoa was originally built in Hardanger in 1872 to carry dried cod from Northern Norway to Bergen. I have been told that my Great Grandmother, who came from there was somehow connected with the builder of the Gjoa.
She grounded and sunk in the Lofoten Islands in 1882, but was salvage and restored. After that she was used as a “sealer” and for Arctic trade, before being brought by Amundsen for his ambisious plan of sailing through the NW Passage.
Here is the history of Gjoa: http://www.frammuseum.no/Visit-the-Museum/GJOA.aspx

You’re right about it not being much of an investment. They even brought over a Norwegian flagged tug to do the work. I understand that they have a budget, that they aren’t making any money, and that the Maud is part of Norway’s heritage. But it is our heritage, too. If Norwegians care so much about the Maud, let them come here to see her. Build the museum here, and make it a stop for the cruises.

The group that did the salvage was sponsored by a corporation, but organized as a non-profit society. Likewise, the construction of the museum at Vollan is by a private organization, not by the Norwegian Government.

Yes they brought a tug and barge, plus much of their equipment and manpower from Norway. No Canadian grant or expenses were spent on this project. I don’t know if they paid Pilotage thought. (Are there any Pilots in that area?)

As for preserving the hulk and building a museum in NWT, I don’t know if that would at all be possible, but it would definitely not be economical.

Would a Maud Museum in Cambridge Bay (or Gjoa Haven?) have attracted hordes of tourists, arriving by cruise ship or otherwise? Hardly likely and the season would have been even shorter than in Oslo.

The Maud had no other connection to that area than that she was used as a floating warehouse for a few years and sunk there.

She did become the inspiration and template for the first true Arctic ship built in and for Canada. That would have been a better ship to display up there. What happened to the RCMP vessel St. Roch anyhow?

[QUOTE=ombugge;190030]What happened to the RCMP vessel St. Roch anyhow?[/QUOTE]

http://www.vancouvermaritimemuseum.com/permanent-exhibit/st-roch-national-historic-site

[QUOTE=ombugge;190030]I have been told that my Great Grandmother, who came from there was somehow connected with the builder of the Gjoa.
She grounded and sunk in the Lofoten Islands in 1882, but was salvage and restored.[/QUOTE]

Now THAT’S an amazing story. Those Norwegian grandmothers are tough, aren’t they?*

The group that did the salvage was sponsored by a corporation, but organized as a non-profit society. Likewise, the construction of the museum at Vollan is by a private organization, not by the Norwegian Government.

Yes they brought a tug and barge, plus much of their equipment and manpower from Norway. No Canadian grant or expenses were spent on this project.

Yes. Well. Obviously I was not consulted. Oslo is chock full of attractions. It will take a hundred years to do the archeology for the ancient ships sunk right there in its own harbour. I saw some of that treasure while I was at Bygdoy. I’d be surprised if the Maud attracted any more new visitors who weren’t coming already to see the mountains of nautical history already on display. The Maud has more meaning where she is and has been. And there’s more money to be made attracting people to the Arctic than spoon feeding them in Oslo. How many people cruise up to Svalbard every year to look at the radio masts?

I don’t know if they paid Pilotage thought. (Are there any Pilots in that area?)

I was trying to make a joke about the Maud getting impounded and that Viking raider ship’s trouble trying to get to Lake Wobegone, or where-ever they were going. Often I’m not as funny as I think I am.

The Maud had no other connection to that area than that she was used as a floating warehouse for a few years and sunk there.

I disagree. She’s been part of the landscape since the 1930s. Landscape is important in the north. The way they tell their stories has everything to do with what-is-where. On the little islands near Baffin, Martin Frobisher is remembered because he left some bricks behind and cut a little scar into a cliff-face. What was that? 450 year ago? Amundsen and crew may have left some genetic legacy, but they didn’t leave much on the landscape, except Maud.

http://www.nunatsiaqonline.ca/stories/article/65674Ottawa_nixes_export_permit_for_maud/

This article makes it sound like an administrative dispute, but can you imagine how far away from Ottawa Cambridge Bay is? There’s very little motivation to place local culture in the hands of the “south.”

She did become the inspiration and template for the first true Arctic ship built in and for Canada. That would have been a better ship to display up there. What happened to the RCMP vessel St. Roch anyhow?

Lee Shore is correct. She’s the gem of the museum. Worth a visit if you happen to arrive on Vancouver by, say, cruise ship. Not as easy to get to as Gas Town, but how many sets of sexy mountie pajamas, clever puns about beaver, and stunned tourists blocking the walkway do you really need? Go to the museum.

Thanks for that link.
They forgot to mention that the design was not so unusual as it was modeled on the well proven Polar Expedition vessels Fram and Maud, which was built on the principle that they would be lifted rather than crush when exposed to ice pressure:

Wooden Norwegian Seal catchers operated in the Gulf of St. Lawrence up to the late 1960s, or even later, were also built on this principle.

Here is one of the more famous one, the Veslekari:

If you google that one you’ll find an interesting story and quite a legacy.
The early scientific Echosounders were named up after her: www.hydro-international.com/content/article/large-of-spirit?output=pdf

As well as a restaurant and bar in Pattaya:

One Norwegian company that has been active in Canada, incl, in the Arctic for many years, is Karlsen Shipping Co.: http://www.companylisting.ca/Karlsen_Shipping_Company_Limited/default.aspx
Maybe they are behind the small investment that is accredited to Norway in the Arctic area?

This was an offshoot of a family owned business in the main sealing village of Brandal, near Aalesund, Norway.
They set up business in Halifax NS in 1956. Martin Karlsen is still the President of the company.

Karlsen Shipping was involved in many thing in Canada. Mainly in the Sealing and Fishing business in the early day, but later also in Whaling and Arctic shipping. They were pioneers in their industry: http://shipfax.blogspot.no/2015/03/brandal-first-but-tem-more-popular.html

Later they became involved in Arctic Cruising, with the former ice breaker Polar Star(discussed elsewhere)which may have been their downfall. I’m not sure if the company is still active, or if it all went down the drain with the Polar Star?

One of their Whalers are still active, but in a different role: http://thorfinn.net/
Here is her specifications and history: http://thor-dahl.lardex.net/skip/skipstekst/1952_thorfinn.htm

[QUOTE=ombugge;190061]One Norwegian company that has been active in Canada, incl, in the Arctic for many years, is Karlsen Shipping Co.[/QUOTE]

This statement should read: has not been active in Canada for many years. Far as I can tell, they don’t exist anymore.

[QUOTE=Emrobu;190068]This statement should read: has not been active in Canada for many years. Far as I can tell, they don’t exist anymore.[/QUOTE]
Yes it appears that the grounding of Polar Star killed the company entirely.I believe Martin Karlsen is still active in the Shipping fraternity in Halifax and may come back in business.

Even so, the Karlsen companies contributed greatly to the development of Canadian fisheries and Arctic shipping over many years.
In fact the relations started before WWII, with their sealers hunting there every year.
When Norway was occupied by the Germans on April 09 1940 Karl Karlsen, the founder of Karlsen Shipping Co. was skipper on board his sealer Auktos doing just that.

He ended up spending the war in Canada and established connections within the maritime industries there. He lost his vessel during the war. When the war ended he purchased a Canadian built vessel and returned to Norway with that, which he named “Minna”: https://www.sjohistorie.no/no/skip/19475/

But he never lost the contacts he had there. He soon returned to Canada and set up shop in Halifax, while his brother took care of business in Norway. He operated many different ships and businesses, but always associated with the marine field, sealing, fisheries and the Arctic.

Let us leave Canada behind for now and return to things Norwegian.
Here is an Economist article about the Norwegian Oil Fund and its merits and problems: http://www.economist.com/news/business-and-finance/21707435-norways-global-fund-its-tough-small-democracy-run-worlds-biggest?fsrc=permar|image1

It is not easy to be rich and morally upright at the same time. If you cannot invest in anything that may be harmful to the environment, or anything that may be criticized for something or another, it is hard to turn a profit.
The bigger you are the harder it gets. You cannot invest only in small “green” companies with impeccable records (or no records) and expect to find somewhere to place $$$ billions a year, yet turn a profit.

To invest oil money in oil companies is not “green” enough for many Norwegians and to put the money into Walmart is out since they do not meet the required standard for labour rights, etc. etc.

It’s an awful dilemma to be in, don’t you think?

[QUOTE=ombugge;190768]Let us leave Canada behind for now and return to things Norwegian.
Here is an Economist article about the Norwegian Oil Fund and its merits and problems: http://www.economist.com/news/business-and-finance/21707435-norways-global-fund-its-tough-small-democracy-run-worlds-biggest?fsrc=permar|image1

It is not easy to be rich and morally upright at the same time. If you cannot invest in anything that may be harmful to the environment, or anything that may be criticized for something or another, it is hard to turn a profit.
The bigger you are the harder it gets. You cannot invest only in small “green” companies with impeccable records (or no records) and expect to find somewhere to place $$$ billions a year, yet turn a profit.

To invest oil money in oil companies is not “green” enough for many Norwegians and to put the money into Walmart is out since they do not meet the required standard for labour rights, etc. etc.

It’s an awful dilemma to be in, don’t you think?[/QUOTE]

What’s more puzzling is why a guy with your extensive experience, knowledge and intelligence would lower himself to sounding like a smarmy shill from the Oslo chamber of commerce to remind us North Americans that we are just a bunch of stupid money grubbing morons.

[QUOTE=Lee Shore;190775]What’s more puzzling is why a guy with your extensive experience, knowledge and intelligence would lower himself to sounding like a smarmy shill from the Oslo chamber of commerce to remind us North Americans that we are just a bunch of stupid money grubbing morons.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the acknowledgment that I’m not a bumbling know nothing foreign idiot.

I don’t know were you manage to find any insult to North Americans in what I wrote in post # 16. Anything pertaining to them being “stupid money grubbing morons” must stand for your account and perception.

The only reference to anything North American was about Walmart and the fact that they are on the list of companies banned from investment by the Norwegian Oil Fund. You may take that as an insult, but it was not intended as such.

      • Updated - - -

[QUOTE=lm1883;190779]As if the Norwegians are not?[/QUOTE]

Are not what???

[QUOTE=ombugge;190786]Thanks for the acknowledgment that I’m not a bumbling know nothing foreign idiot.

The only reference to anything North American was about Walmart and the fact that they are on the list of companies ban from investment by the Norwegian Oil Fund. You may take that as an insult, but it was not intended as such.[/QUOTE]

You are most welcome.

However, you obviously have never wandered the aisles at Wal-Mart at three in the morning. How could you be so calloused as to deny shopping opportunities to the maladjusted, those who have trouble getting dressed, the morbidly obese, the somnambulists, the dribblers, the exhibitionists, those spending the night under fluorescent lighting to ward off zombies, and meandering ship crews stocking up on supplies.

[QUOTE=Lee Shore;190795]You are most welcome.

However, you obviously have never wandered the aisles at Wal-Mart at three in the morning. How could you be so calloused as to deny shopping opportunities to the maladjusted, those who have trouble getting dressed, the morbidly obese, the somnambulists, the dribblers, the exhibitionists, those spending the night under fluorescent lighting to ward off zombies, and meandering ship crews stocking up on supplies.[/QUOTE]

No I have not wandered the aisles of Wal-Mart at three in the morning, or much at other times either.
They made an attempt at setting up shop in Singapore some years ago, but it didn’t last long. (Maybe because labourers in Singapore are Unionized?)
I have been to some Wal-Marts in China, where they are big and maybe in some other places as well, without that having made any lasting impression. From your description the clientele, may have been different?

Actually I made the comment about not investing oil money in oil companies and in Wal-Mart as a sarcasm, showing how the Norwegian public may have gone too far when it comes to be morally uptight on all things, even to their own detriment.