Obtaining Tankerman PIC / Tankerman Assistant Endorsement

Exactly… hell, because of STCW 2010, the degree I earned is no longer available. If you want a license option degree you’re limited to Marine Transportation or Marine Engineering because of all the additional coursework now required. Granted, my Marine Sciences degree isn’t doing me a lick of good now (aside from my phys ocean and meteorology courses) but still, it cuts down on options badly for grads.

New York used to full of these types of tankers. There was one dedicated to the “head” boats at Sheepshead Bay. Numerous others worked the creeks and bunkered ships. OPA90 and other regs have retired all of them. There are a few double hull new builds around, notably the Chandra B in NY and the Peterson fleet in Florida. As well as the Shell backed lube oil boats in Elizabeth.

They may come back because there are some jobs you just can’t do with a tug and barge, and now with Subchapter M you might as well build a ship.

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We have a dwindling number of deep draft US flag ships. It’s heading towards a smaller number of only government owned or chartered ships, and the Jones Act fleet.

Where are all these kids being trained by academies to work on deep draft ship going to find work? The oil patch? Tugs? Dredges? Yachts?

There are only a handful of deep draft US flag tankers. Not many jobs there anyway.

However, there are thousands of tank barges that require Tankerman-PICs. Lots of jobs there.

At some point small tankers will become more competitive with tugs and barges. It’s already begun to happen. Mid-sized tankers now compete with large ATBs.

How is an argument that academies should not train tankerman, because the kids should learn working on deck on commercial vessels, any different than an argument they should not train third mates, because the kids should learn working on deck on commercial vessels? There is no difference.

I think most would agree that newly minted third mates, or tankerman, are minimally, if not dubiously, qualified to perform those roles. In commercial practice, they are still on training wheels until they demonstrate ability gained through actual experience on commercial ships.

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I’m the PIC on the ships I work on. Every new cadet that comes aboard will ask early on about getting their loads and discharges letter. I tell them all the same thing:

‘Come to my office and I’ll show you how to work the cargo program. I’ll explain the trim and stability books and go threw them with you. I’ll take you to the pump room and I’ll show you how things work down there. We’ll make a load plan and I’ll let you do it (under my supervision). Just come find me some time and ask.’

Most cadets will show up to the load conference, sign the muster sheet and vanish. They don’t ask about load plans and trim and stability books unless it’s part of their sea project. I doubt they went into the pump room for more than a quick glance.

Without fail they come to my office - just before they sign off - and ask for a loads and discharges letter. After all they signed the load conference muster sheet. They’re always so sad when I remind them that I told them to stop by, and they didn’t, so I won’t be giving them a letter.

Now some snowflakes want the schools to hold their hands and give them a PIC? Fuck that. They either earn it or go find a corner to cry in.

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I understand your point of view.

If there were going to be a tankerman training program, it would need to be comprehensive. The trainees would have to do the work. At the end, they might have the endorsement, but that doesn’t mean that they actually have any ability.

I try to avoid towing oil barges, but sometimes it happens. On the small to medium tank barge side of things, there is a lot less to learn, but still, no competency is developed in a mere 5 loads and 5 discharges. Nor does one necessarily learn anything about tanking by being a deckhand or mate on a tug towing an oil barge for 90 days.

There are a lot of guys who have tankerman-PIC barge endorsements that don’t know diddly about actually doing it. Just as with many licenses, the ticket is in hand long before the actual skills needed are developed. Even if one can load a small barge with one product, that does not mean one can load a large barge with four products. There is also a big difference between knowing how to do it, and being ready willing and able to do it.

Remember 30 years ago when tankerman authority was automatically included with every license as an officer. A lot of people who didn’t know what they were doing were pumping barges. Maybe that’s why the rules got changed.

Geez! When I was a cadet with Mormac my sea partner and I were the 3rd mate’s shadows throughout the loads and discharges (except when the C/M booted us and told us to go have some fun in port). I’m right there with you on not signing off on their letters.

Went through the same thing with DP log signing with my crew in Nigeria. If you’re not going to come up in your off time to advance yourself, I’m sure as heck not signing you off on it when you didn’t do anything.

I have to disagree with you there. The requirement from the CFR is that the applicant for PIC must be able to “supervise” the evolution.

Supervision means knowing when a job is progressing safely and correctly and when it isn’t. It does not mean standing on the side in bewilderment while other people work. It means that when some small step is missed or done incorrectly the supervisor can stop or correct the evolution.

For example, hooking up a hose. Simple, right? Do you pick up one end and drag the hose to where you need it? (No, move it without dragging.) What goes between the hose/arm and manifold? (Not just any gasket, the correct type of gasket for that product.) How do you tighten the bolts? (Opposite sides in small increments.)

These things are trivial. They can also be important. If the ‘supervisor’ hasn’t learned these things they won’t know when they’re watching it being done wrong.

Best way to learn? By doing. Worst way? When the investigator tells you why the accident occurred.

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What is the minimum pay for Tankerman PIC on a tanker ship?? I am a Tankerman PIC and I work in brown waters. Looking to move up the ladder and head towards deep sea instead.

Tankermen PIC’s on ships are also the mates. So it’s whatever the mate pay is.

Do you have a guesstimate?? Is it the same amount that a PIC makes in brown waters?

Tank ships don’t carry dedicated Tankermen. The mates on the ship are qualified as and serve as the PIC in addition to their other duties.

Thank you. But do you have an idea of what the pay scale is??

Whatever third mate pay on a tanker is. Do you have a 3rd mate unlimited?

Please stop asking. There is no pay scale since there are no jobs as “Tankerman” on tank ships. There are mates who hold the Tankerman-PIC endorsement in addition to their mate’s license and perform, among other things, the duties of a tankerman-PIC.

No. Just a Tankerman PIC endorsement

I wouldn’t of known any of this had I not ask. No one is forcing you to reply. I have little to no knowledge when it comes to deep see. But thank you.

That’s true, but two different people have told you that the Mate is the PIC and each time you ignore that and reply “yes, but what’s the pay”.

I sincerely apologize fellas. I overlooked that part. No harm intended

To answer your question though, when I was a 3rd mate with OSI/AMO union on a T-5E tanker my base pay was $115/day. That was 15 years ago though.

I think AMO third mate pay is closer to $400 a day now but I haven’t checked recently.