A little light reading for you. The mate was on the cell phone a whole lot, but he just found out his kid “had experienced a life-threatening emergency during a medical procedure taking place that day”
I feel for the guy, but being on the cell when you hit an anchored boat and end up killing people, I don’t know…
If someone already posted this on here, my bad
First, this was a tragedy.
My take on this is that the mate was unfit for duty. With having received devastating personal news, I fail to see how anybody would be able to concentrate sufficiently in order to be in charge of a vessel in restricted and congested waters. Obviously that does not excuse his use of a cell phone which had potentially devastating consequences.
His career is finished and two people are dead.
I also think that this coupled with several other high profile cases where people were using cell phones in transportation (Such as the USCG crash in San Diego and several rail crashes) will possibly lead to another change in federal policy similar to how the Conrail-Amtrak crash of 87 and the Exxon Valdez spill of 89 led to major transportation industry changes in regards to drug/alcohol use/testing.
Not sure how easily a complete ban on cell phone use on duty could be enforced…
[QUOTE=SaltySailor;47646]First, this was a tragedy.
[/QUOTE]
Light reading was a reference to the long, wordy NTSB document, not to the subject. Didn’t want to to make light of people dying and careers ending. Sorry if it sounded that way
[QUOTE=50thState;47651]Light reading was a reference to the long, wordy NTSB document, not to the subject. Didn’t want to to make light of people dying and careers ending. Sorry if it sounded that way[/QUOTE]
Sorry myself, I understood exactly what you meant by “light reading” and no offense was taken, I was only trying to preface my own comments. Re-reading my post I see I could been clearer.
I am not trying to pass judgement on the mate, sure that others whom are qualified to will do so.
My thoughts too, well put.
[QUOTE=SaltySailor;47646]First, this was a tragedy.
My take on this is that the mate was unfit for duty. With having received devastating personal news, I fail to see how anybody would be able to concentrate sufficiently in order to be in charge of a vessel in restricted and congested waters. Obviously that does not excuse his use of a cell phone which had potentially devastating consequences.
[/QUOTE]
That sounds good but how many of you tugboat guys can get a relief in 30 minutes or less? If the mate was unfit for duty who is supposed to drive the boat? The captain by law cant do more than 12 hours and many would strech that in an emergency but still wouldnt do 24 hours straight.The office isnt going to be very sympatetic they may call a few guys to come it for you but the boat still has to run to make money. No it was a tragic thing and shouldnt have happened but we all know that if there is an emergency at home we will be on the phone. People just need to use their heads and some common sence.
[QUOTE=KennyW1983;47676]That sounds good but how many of you tugboat guys can get a relief in 30 minutes or less? If the mate was unfit for duty who is supposed to drive the boat? The captain by law cant do more than 12 hours and many would strech that in an emergency but still wouldnt do 24 hours straight.The office isnt going to be very sympatetic they may call a few guys to come it for you but the boat still has to run to make money. No it was a tragic thing and shouldnt have happened but we all know that if there is an emergency at home we will be on the phone. People just need to use their heads and some common sence.[/QUOTE]
I agree, that’s why I hesitate to comment in these cases, when we read the reports we feel like we understand the situation but of course we don’t fully.
Having said that it is helpful to see various point of views and this is a forum not a court of law so more leeway is appropriate,
[QUOTE=50thState;47644]…The mate was on the cell phone a whole lot,…[/QUOTE]
The deck hand on the DUKW sent to the bow (assumably as a lookout) was also text messaging at the time of the collision.
The DUKW operator didn’t perform too hot, imho, just from what the report says. Kills the engine, engine didn’t die, mid channel. Anchor grabs 4 minutes before collision? It says the tug was making 5 kts, so there was a tug and barge bearing down on this guy less than a half mile off, and he was anchoring and duct taping gaps in the engine box? Then frantic radio calls 2 minutes before you get run over? Lookout is texting his girlfriend…
I’m gonna stop, cause as others have said, its an incomplete report, and we’re not going to know exactly what happened, but there were a lot of people who put their lives in that boat operator’s hands that day.
[QUOTE=KennyW1983;47676]The office isnt going to be very sympatetic they may call a few guys to come it for you but the boat still has to run to make money.[/QUOTE]
How much money did the boat make that trip?
Part of holding a license and operating under the authority of that license is supposed to be having the judgment and ethical standards to place the health and safety of others above what you believe"the office" or any other authority figure might want to see.
It isn’t just a corny saying to print on a galley poster but “If you think safety is expensive, have an accident” really does mean something … or it should if you are the one choosing between safety and an accident.
It is no secret that a personal family tragedy or other serious event is as detrimental to proper judgment as drugs or alcohol. Acting accordingly is one of the responsibilities you take when you accept the benefits that license conveys.
[QUOTE=Steamer;47689]How much money did the boat make that trip?.[/QUOTE]
That’s a good point. A captain told me one time it wasn’t his job to make the company money, it was his job to prevent losses.
K.C.
Several years ago when my grandmother died, my family waited weeks until I got into port to tell me. Two years ago when my mom was told she had cancer and had a few months to live my family waited until I got into port to let me know.
Both times my family reasoned that it would be better to wait because there wasn’t anything I could do about it at sea. This cell phone/ twitter/ Facebook culture of telling each other bad news in real time may seem great until someone gets killed as this accident proves.
Better that the family notify the company that the mariner will be departing the ship upon arrival so the company can arrange a relief, but waiting until the mariner is off duty/ in-port before giving him the bad news.
Just read the NTSB release. I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts about the white shirt/blue shirt discrepancies noted in the report.
On page 22 the master is quoted as putting on a blue t-shirt and heading to the upper wheelhouse to take command post-accident. Later on page 23, the report describes a post accident video showing someone with a white tshirt climbing to the upper wheelhouse.
I’m sure there is a point here, but I’m not quite getting it. I imagine it will come out in the full report, but I was wondering if anyone has any thoughts? I assume its not that they’re trying to catch the master lying about what color shirt he was wearing…
[QUOTE=Sf_deckhand;47699]Just read the NTSB release. I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts about the white shirt/blue shirt discrepancies noted in the report.
On page 22 the master is quoted as putting on a blue t-shirt and heading to the upper wheelhouse to take command post-accident. Later on page 23, the report describes a post accident video showing someone with a white tshirt climbing to the upper wheelhouse.
I’m sure there is a point here, but I’m not quite getting it. I imagine it will come out in the full report, but I was wondering if anyone has any thoughts? I assume its not that they’re trying to catch the master lying about what color shirt he was wearing…[/QUOTE]
I skimmed it a little fast so I am not sure but my take was someone in a white (?) shirt is seen going up to the wheel house and they don’t know who it is. There was some discussion about the mate stationed upper/lower wheelhouse. I didn’t see anywhere where they said the mate was at the time. When the C/E sees him he is at the captain’s cabin door. I wonder if the NTSB established the mates location at the time of the incident.
K.C.
103 degrees, no A/C in the upper house, white tee-shirt filmed going above after the accident?
Hmmmm…
[QUOTE=DeckApe;47694]Several years ago when my grandmother died, my family waited weeks until I got into port to tell me. Two years ago when my mom was told she had cancer and had a few months to live my family waited until I got into port to let me know.
Both times my family reasoned that it would be better to wait because there wasn’t anything I could do about it at sea. This cell phone/ twitter/ Facebook culture of telling each other bad news in real time may seem great until someone gets killed as this accident proves.
Better that the family notify the company that the mariner will be departing the ship upon arrival so the company can arrange a relief, but waiting until the mariner is off duty/ in-port before giving him the bad news.[/QUOTE]
I was getting on the wife’s case about this just the other and she used the, “your working and what r u going to do about it other than get all wound up…” argument. I did not buy it then but in retrospect I am buying it now. She was right again though it did not seem so at the moment.
I will be ordering her flowers as soon as I finish this post…
Just saw this sorry if already posted.
One thing to remember about this tragedy is that the two fatalities - Hungarian* tourists (both in their late 20’s so presumably fit) - were wearing PFDs when they drowned: it appears as though the PFDs were donned and the passengers then stayed in their seats - or at least under the Duck’s canopy.
Of course the canopy overhead did not allow these two to float free like the others, so they drowned. A normal person can’t overcome the buoyancy of a PFD!!!
This is a common mistake and I see it a lot offshore: donning PFDs in restricted spaces/obstructed spaces.
Please repeat this at your fire & boat drills!!!
I didn’t notice the wearing of the PFD’s before. And Richard, add gumby suits to the list of things not to put on indoors! Always put them on ouside.
[QUOTE=DeckApe;47694]Several years ago when my grandmother died, my family waited weeks until I got into port to tell me. Two years ago when my mom was told she had cancer and had a few months to live my family waited until I got into port to let me know.
Both times my family reasoned that it would be better to wait because there wasn’t anything I could do about it at sea. This cell phone/ twitter/ Facebook culture of telling each other bad news in real time may seem great until someone gets killed as this accident proves.
Better that the family notify the company that the mariner will be departing the ship upon arrival so the company can arrange a relief, but waiting until the mariner is off duty/ in-port before giving him the bad news.[/QUOTE]
Many years ago a young woman was killed in a motorcycle accident, her father was the captain on the opposite hitch on the boat I was decking. We all knew what he was walking into when we exchanged our greetings and turnovers on crew change day, he wouldn’t know until he walked in his front door. I still get chills when I think of the poor man walking in the door to find his daughter has been dead for 3 days. Even worse, his wife and family had to live through those first awful moments [I]with him[/I] all over again.
The dukboat tragedy seems cut and dried to assign blame, but it appears there were too many things going wrong too quickly coupled with distracted operators on both vessels. Very sad.