Flying Bridge on a British tanker is the walkway from fore to aft above the main deck.
Usually fairly narrow and goes from the raised forecastle to the poop deck.
Used for passage fore to aft during rough weather.
Same language different meaning.
That walkway on an American tanker is called a catwalk. Maybe you already know that.
In real life (non-Navy) it is the “monkey island”.
It looks like Sal was not very impressed with the PR either.
Can anybody here find the detailed story written allegedly by " His Majesty" 
Capt.John Konrad as claimed by below news joint ???
El accidente del Buque “Cuauhtémoc” pudo ser evitable, afirma especialista. - Noticias Manzanillo
" El capitán John A. Konrad V, con licencia para comandar buques de cualquier tamaño y fundador del medio especializado gCaptain, publicó un detallado análisis del accidente en redes sociales. Aunque aclaró que nunca ha navegado un velero alto como el Cuauhtémoc, su experiencia en navegación comercial, maniobras portuarias y seguridad marítima le permitió esbozar una hipótesis crítica: el incidente no fue producto del azar, sino de una serie de decisiones operativas que fallaron en cascada."
Swiss cheese theory fits here like a glove but I can not find Capt Konrad text.
@Jughead .
Have visited old DAR on Sunday and measured the circumference( 2.35 mtr) of the mizzenmast obtaining the DIA of 0.75 mtr at abt 2.2 mtrs above the deck . The height of the enclosed nav bridge from the deck is 2.4 mtrs. The width of the enclosed bridge is 5 mtrs . From deck edge to the bridge is 3 mtrs on port and stb side. 5+ 6 =11 mtrs. B of DAR is 12 mtrs extreme.
In addition there is a hude boom running alongside the centerline of the monkey deck.
The dia of the boom is abt 1/3rd of the mast . Same as on Mexican ship but theirs was a bit higher - abt 1.6 mtrs above the monkey deck.
Could not climb on the monkey deck as there were no ladders there as the space had never been used neither for navigation nor for docking/undocking.
Reverting with visibility issues soonest.
Thank You very much for Your serious answer to my previous question regarding anchoring. Yours was an exception to the rule : speech is silver silence is golden. W/O m/e i am not sure i would make it to anchor position in 12 hrs.
Wonder if she was fitted with :
On a ship, the “tube for communication” between the bridge and the monkey deck is most likely a voice tube . These were used on older ships before the widespread adoption of electronic communication systems.
Had this on some ships - an item for polishing and cleaning reather then communicating . On monkey deck was near the magnetic compass and on the bridge was near the helmsman position. One had to blow in a mouth piece( whistle) first and the talk.
Cheers
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I’m not sure why you need this detail. Ships deal with masts restricting visibility easily enough. I concur DAR would not use the deck above the charthouse for anything to do with conning the ship with the mizzen boom sweeping the area, but this was less of an issue with Cuauhtémoc.
Regarding voice pipes, I didn’t notice any on Cuauhtémoc and I suspect that deck had no navigation/communication equipment. I think the deck was regularly used for conning for departures in this way because of the better all-round visibility and, if that is so, the communication methods would be well established.
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Good evening
I need this detail to make as accurate as possible drawing in scale and to make my calculations /demonstration as accurate as possible.
As You know I have rejected outright the version “ORANGE” basis NTSB report. Tipical example of " past experience " bias. You have given your verdict on my questions and I asked the questions w/o making any subjective judgements. Some do not ask questions.
I have downloaded many clips of Cuauht. entering and leaving many ports . PLENTY!!!. It is evident that it was their modus operandi to con the ship during navigation from conning position on the monkey deck. There is not visual evidence though about sensu stricte docking/undocking.
From this clips it is evident two tugs were used for arr/dep berth.
So far I have found one clip showing departure from Japan or Korea ( they have very characteristic tugs there too) .Conditions were perfect , no obstructions ,dangers -weather fantastic . All arrivals and deps as You mentioned before : loud fiesta music , singing patriotic songs, show of flag -you name it
They were also in San Diego ( two tugs there). Everywhere the same scenario . I do not know of course if this " human telephone " thing was used as means of communication everywhere. Well, we could find out asking sea/docking pilots on arrival NYC. May be NTSB asked , may be not
.
I DO NOT KNOW.
It worked hundreds of times but as You mentioned earlier , under stress & pressure it failed this time.
I was biased regarding “orange " version and I am biased regarding visibility . You may call it " boxed” . You work on ships all your life, that have containers reaching the bridge deck forward and above bridge aft irrespective of their LOA and B , then you may develop a fixed -boxed view what BAD visibility is all about and consider concerns on Tall Ships as preposterous. But on that i will expand later.
But I am relieved also that I am not the only " boxed " individual here . The boxed view of some small boat owners and shrimpboat captains , wannabee captains is quite evident looking at some comments.
Now . I have identified on this forum two benchmarks .
- Meme.Lord- " we have the best training institutions in the world and have the best people" . It is in one of the threads like here:
I have absolutely no problem accepting it . It seems logical taking into account traditions, shore line lenght , acreage of adjacent waters, port infractructure, inland navigable waters, number of ports , controlling institutions, professional institutions literature, etc,ect. NO PROBLEM AT ALL.
And against this benchmark I am making my private subjective judgements trying to find proof of such claim versus the whole spate of different accidents starting from Exxon including navy ships .
I am not from Misouri but am a " show me man" and doubting thomas as all know here.
- I think it would be appropriate to quote one benchmark from your own Australia and I am very glad I can do it here.
AUSMARINER.
It should be read in it’s entirety.
I will throw in to complete the picture, one comment from @244 about how he would treat the ship master who had some ideas about navigating the ship in an area of pilot responsibility/duty.
“THIS IS HOW WE DO IT HERE and what are You gonna do about it” - something like that.
Summarising. The school vessel had travelled in it’s life time milion miles, visited hundreds of ports and nothing happened.
Here I am inclined to agree with alleged opinion I have not found yet from Capt J.Konrad. Swiss chese theory worked here like the swiss watch.
The only missing holes not present untill departure was the NYC docking pilot and the tugboat running about like a headless chicken and so far alleged mechanical failure. Loss fo two precious lives , material damage all as per last Dr.Sal video clip worth in excess of 500 000 usd. Wow !!!Evelauating two Mexican lives that low seems to me a tale telling sign of general attitudes here. It is a disgrace and shame for locals in my opinion.
The conning from the monkey deck , human telephones for comms, laud music, restricted by rigging visibility seems to me , were a permanent features of arrivial/departure fiesta all over the world.
Pic. fm Cuauht. tour video clip .
It appears to me it was and issue for both but solved in a different way .As one commander said : what is it you want to discuss here. They were decapitated in NYC , we so far have not. End of story.
I do recommend to follow Mexican news joints .There are many things You will not find on gCaptain forum and news. Seems to me both actors here are engaged already in haevy duty ass covering procedures.
Reverting with simple math and very simple geometry soonest.
Cheers.
Added some minutes later.
Q: what can we do to inspire moderators to close the thread asap???
A: Ohhhh man.It is very simple . We litter the thread with sufficient amount of not related garbage.
It seems the only detail left unanswered is in regard to the functionality of the CPP. without that information, we’re just chasing rabbit holes.
A post was split to a new topic: Tall ship denied entry to Aberdeen harbour due to Russian-born captain
VISIBILITY ISSUES ON TALL SHIP.
For starters checked Gisis and Equasis and have got this return:
Not sure then what criteria to apply .It is a Gov.& navy ship, sailing ship but participating in international voyages, with cadets on board for training.
Had cadets on my ships that were put on the crew list as supernumeraries . Are they crew members or may be Paxes , had they contract of employments ? or some other docs- i am not sure abt their legal status.
Looked up Solas and it looks this ship can not be treated as “Convention” vessel. Sure thing it belongs to Navy, which has it’s own rules like " human telephone communications , anthem frequent singing , meeting on monkey deck for the purpose of shaving the town architecture icons like bridges and watching the tugs pointlesly running around and finally keeping the NTSB very busy .
Lets look at SOLAS.
Application of SOLAS
It applies to cargo vessels of 500 gross tonnage or more and passenger ships on international trips. Chapter Four of the SOLAS Convention extends its scope to cargo ships with 300 gross tonnage or more. Chapter 5 applies to all vessels except warships, naval auxiliaries, and other ships owned and operated by a contracting government and plying on government, non-commercial services.
Regulation 3 - Exceptions
(a) The present regulations, unless expressly provided otherwise, do not apply to:
(i) Ships of war and troopships. ( navy ship, sailing vsl, training vsl, school)
(ii) Cargo ships of less than 500 gross tonnage.
(iii) Ships not propelled by mechanical means. SOMETIMES. WAS
UNDOCKING AS MOTOR DRIVEN VESSEL
(iv) Wooden ships of primitive build. STEEL HULL BUILD 1982 -
SURELY NOT PRIMITIVE
(v) Pleasure yachts not engaged in trade. NOT A PLEASURE YACHT
(vi) Fishing vessels. NOT A FISHING VSL
(b) Except as expressly provided in chapter V, nothing herein shall apply to ships solely navigating the Great Lakes of North America and the River St Lawrence as far east as a straight line drawn from Cap des Rosiers to West Point, Anticosti Island and, on the north side of Anticosti Island, the 63rd meridian.
Regulation 15 - Principles relating to bridge design, design and arrangement of navigational systems and equipment and bridge procedures
All decisions which are made for the purpose of applying the requirements of regulations 19, 22, 24, 25, 27 and 28 and which affect bridge design, the design and arrangement of navigational systems and equipment on the bridge and bridge proceduresfootnote shall be taken with the aim of:
.1 facilitating the tasks to be performed by the bridge team and the pilot in making full appraisal of the situation and in navigating the ship safely under all operational conditions;
.2 promoting effective and safe bridge resource management;
.3 enabling the bridge team and the pilot to have convenient and continuous access to essential information which is presented in a clear and unambiguous manner, using standardized symbols and coding systems for controls and displays;
.4 indicating the operational status of automated functions and integrated components, systems and/or sub-systems;
.5 allowing for expeditious, continuous and effective information processing and decision-making by the bridge team and the pilot;
.6 preventing or minimizing excessive or unnecessary work and any conditions or distractions on the bridge which may cause fatigue or interfere with the vigilance of the bridge team and the pilot; and
.7 minimizing the risk of human error and detecting such error, if it occurs, through monitoring and alarm systems, in time for the bridge team and the pilot to take appropriate action.
SOLAS visibility rules:
As per SOLAS chapter V, Regulation 22
Ships of not less than 55m in length
1st July 1998 shall meet the following requirements:
01.The view of the sea surface from the canning position shall not be obscured by more than two ships length or 500 m whichever is less forward of the bow to 10 degree on either side under all conditions of draught trim and deck cargos.
02.No blind sector, caused by cargo, cargo gear or other obstructions outside of the wheel house forward of the beam which obstructs the view of the sea surface as seen from the canning position, shall exceed 10 degree:
The total are of blind sectors shall not exceed 20 deg.
The clear sector between blind sectors shall be at least 5 deg
However, in the view described 1 each individual blind sector shall not exceed 5deg
03.The horizontal field of vision from the canning position shall extend over an arc of not less than 225 deg, that is from bight ahead to not less than 225 deg abaft the beam on either side of the ship.
04.From the main steering position, The horizontal field of vision shall extend over an arc from right ahead to at least 60 deg on each side of the ship.
05.From each bridge wing, the horizontal field of vision shall extend over an arc of at least 225 deg, that is from at least 45 deg on the opposite bow through bight ahead and then from bight ahead to right astern through 180 deg on the same side of the ship.
06.The ships side shall be visible from the bridge wing.
07.The height of the lower edge of the navigator bridge front windows above the bridge duck shall be kept as low as possible in no case shall the lower edge present an obstruction to the forward view as described in this regulation.
08.The upper edge of the navigation bridge front windows shall also a forward view of the horizon, for a person with a height of eye of 1800 mm above the bridge duck of the canning position when the ship is pitching in heavy seas. The administration if satisfied that a 1800mm height of eye is unreasonable and impractical, may allow reduction of the height of eye but not to less than 1600mm.
09.Windows shall meet the following requirements.
10.To help avoid reflections, the bridge front windows shall be inclined from the vertical plane top out at an angle of not less than 10 degree and not more than 25 degree.
11.Framing b/w navigation bridge windows shall be kept to a minimum and not be installed immediately forward of only work station.
12.Polarized and tinted windows shall not be fitted
A clear view through at least two of the navigation bridge front windows and depending on the bridge configuration an additional number of clear view windows shall be provided at all times, regardless of weather condition.
Panama Canal Bridge Visibility
-
If the vessel is laden, the view of the water surface from any conning position in the navigation bridge shall not be obscured by more than one (1) ship length forward of the bow, under all conditions of draft and trim.
-
If the vessel is in ballast (not laden), the view of the water surface from any conning position in the navigation bridge shall not be obscured by more than one and one-half (1.5) ship lengths forward of the bow, under all conditions of draft and trim.
Lets examine the J.A. bubble, where all best trained individuals reside , where abt 90% of them is enjoyably submerged in the ocean of " solas exemptions " facilitated by their flag rules referred to as Administration let alone their size limitation. Tugs, barges, canoes and other 68 years old craft , that would not pass any PSC - even superficial scrutiny outside J.A. comfort zone.
USCG CFR:
§ 164.15 Navigation bridge visibility.
(a) The arrangement of cargo, cargo gear, and trim of all vessels entering or departing from U.S. ports must be such that the field of vision from the navigation bridge conforms as closely as possible to the following requirements:
(1) From the conning position, the view of the sea surface must not be obscured by more than the lesser of two ship lengths or 500 meters (1640 feet) from dead ahead to 10 degrees on either side of the vessel. Within this arc of visibility any blind sector caused by cargo, cargo gear, or other permanent obstruction must not exceed 5 degrees.
(2) From the conning position, the horizontal field of vision must extend over an arc from at least 22.5 degrees abaft the beam on one side of the vessel, through dead ahead, to at least 22.5 degrees abaft the beam on the other side of the vessel. Blind sectors forward of the beam caused by cargo, cargo gear, or other permanent obstruction must not exceed 10 degrees each, nor total more than 20 degrees, including any blind sector within the arc of visibility described in paragraph (a)(1) of this section.
(3) From each bridge wing, the field of vision must extend over an arc from at least 45 degrees on the opposite bow, through dead ahead, to at least dead astern.
(4) From the main steering position, the field of vision must extend over an arc from dead ahead to at least 60 degrees on either side of the vessel.
(b) A clear view must be provided through at least two front windows at all times regardless of weather conditions.
WÄRTSILÄ point of view on the VIEW
Bridge visibility Vartsila.pdf (5.8 MB)
Class NK take on BRIDGE WING VISIBILITY
Bridge wing visibility cLASS.pdf (12.9 KB)
Dudes who are CONFUSED easily are kindly advised, that in none of the above and below the term CONNING DECK is mentioned and/or exists as proper nautical term.
In this particular Vartsila item there is even COMPASS DECK parading as monkey deck. From now on pls note that for that particular deck I will use the term BANNANA DECK as most fitting .
To be continued.
Rem: I would like to congratulate all those who elected not to answer my question :
Kudos for @Jughead , @texastanker , @244 for being kind and serious .
Last but not least the monosyllabic champion has not failed me providing the most revealing remark called " opinion" . At such a dictum I can only advise him to high tail to the nearest US Patent Office and register his ships architect idea of getting rid of all bridge wings in all future and planned shipbuilding in US shipyards .
Likewise i am sure he can deliver his briliant lectures in all nautical institutions about conning ULCV and supertankers of 200 k +++ displacement solely fm the inside w/o any problems.
Genius!!! . Surely the Owners who bought such monstrocity like below :
must be agonizing over extra money spent on this useless steel structures. What a waste of money indeed.
For those “confused” , my question surely was not intended to spark a debate on anchoring methods as the de-masted honorable guest in NYC seemed not to have time to even contemplate such action let alone implement it.
Cheers.
TLDR
Apparently that wasn’t clear enough
Spo hate to admit
Me too.
Too much information squished off FF folks..
I
That was to be expected .Was even thinking about finishing the post with " wonder how many tldr comments will pop up. " .
90% are regulations and the devil is always in the details .
Therefore i divided it in two parts .1 regulatory and …hmmm…
2 revelatory ( if such english word exisst) containing visual revelations
hence my :
Be patient. I am like a very heavy jumbo jet.Need a very long runway for take off
Cheers.