NPR's story on the US shipbuilding boom this morning

Maritime News
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[QUOTE=PaddyWest2012;133011]Here is a link to a nice little essay (with pictures too!) of the end of break bulk shipping and the rise of containers in the mid-20th century. It draws sympathetic conclusions about the death of the original and long-standing romance of our business. We’re just floating truck drivers now![/QUOTE]

If you haven’t readThe Box: How the Shipping Container Made the World Smaller and the World Economy Bigger I highly recommend it. I expected it to be good but I enjoyed it more then I thought. Not just about economics but a lot about shipping at the time. Lots about SeaLand, the government regulations, longshoreman unions, the story of the SL-7s.

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and now this horrible news that US shipbuilders are so backwards and inefficient that nobody wants any ships from them

[B]Aker Philadelphia in Discussions with Hot Buyer to Build Four New Tankers[/B]

By Rob Almeida On March 14, 2014


aker philadelphia shipyard

As noted last year, Aker Philadelphia Shipyard ASA (AKPS) has signed orders from Crowley to deliver four new, LNG-ready MR product tankers for a total cost of around $500 million. Four additional tankers were also being discussed at the time of the announcement last August.

Stepping up to the plate is American Shipping Company ASA (AMSC), a shareholder of Aker Philadelphia which owns a fleet of ten 46,000 dwt Jones Act tankers, all on long-term bareboat charter to OSG.

The shipowner notes in a presentation last November, key drivers contributing to an increase in demand for Jones Act tankers include:

Increase in US shale oil production is creating a requirement for Jones Act tonnage to transport crude oil to refineries and clean products to terminals
Surplus of refinery capacity drives product flows from the US Gulf to the East Coast
Increased oil movement from the Bakken area to the US North West is likely to lift seaborne trade from the North West to the South West refineries

In addition, single-hulled Jones Act tankers have been phased out over the past five years due to OPA 90 requirements resulting in a declining fleet, while at the same time, shipowners have begun ordering new ships. With only two yards capable of building MR tankers at competitive prices and timetables, NASSCO and Aker Philadelphia, yard availability is getting thin, notes AMSC in their presentation.
jones act tanker orders


Via AMSC

AMSC notes that shale oil production is expected to increase by over 114 percent in the next 10 years and with that, continued strengthening of the Jones Act tanker market will occur, as depicted in the following graph.


Jones Act tanker rate trends, Image: AMSC

Aker Philadelphia notes their discussions with AMSC are “at an early stage” and that nothing definitive, exclusive, or binding has been worked out between them. In the past year however, AMSC’s stock has skyrocketed over 1000 percent.

SO FUCKING WHAT IF US JONES ACT QUALIFIED SHIPS COST MORE TO BUILD? US U.S. MARINERS COST MORE TO HIRE BUT THE OWNERS STILL CAN MAKE EXCELLENT PROFITS AND THAT IS WHAT MATTERS IN THE END. NO LOSERS IN THAT EQUATION IN MY BOOK!

WHAT A FUCKING ASSHOLE THAT CRETIN WILLIAM GRAY IS! Btw, I sent my exploding pointy email to NPR complaining about that guy not being qualified to be considered as a shipping or shipbuilding expert but they have not replied back…THEY’RE BOZO’S AS WELL!

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Cap,

Bill Grey has been around for years. I’m trying to localize him but it aint so important.

Hopefully he ain’t a running mate of Rob Quartel but I need to check my Rolodex!

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[QUOTE=+A465B;133100]Cap,

Bill Grey has been around for years. I’m trying to localize him but it aint so important.

Hopefully he ain’t a running mate of Rob Quartel but I need to check my Rolodex![/QUOTE]

Nothing special about this guy, you could find a million Milton Friedman acolytes to give similar quotes.

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[QUOTE=+A465B;133100]Cap,

Bill Grey has been around for years. I’m trying to localize him but it aint so important.

Hopefully he ain’t a running mate of Rob Quartel but I need to check my Rolodex![/QUOTE]

so who the fuck is he? not that guy from PSNSY?

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[QUOTE=c.captain;133105]so who the fuck is he? not that guy from PSNSY?[/QUOTE]

No definitely not the poor guy from Bremerton that was recently savaged.

I am thinking Stamford, CT or maybe K Street… Have definitely heard or read the name before in a maritime context, but cannot remember exactly where. But does it matter? To a man The Forum has a pretty clear view on US Flag ships and shipping. Anyone else, well I suppose make em walk the plank and let God sort it out.

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[QUOTE=+A465B;133135]No definitely not the poor guy from Bremerton that was recently savaged.

I am thinking Stamford, CT or maybe K Street… Have definitely heard or read the name before in a maritime context, but cannot remember exactly where. [/QUOTE]

strange how a supposed “expert and consultant in shipbuilding, operations and regulations” has no web footprint at all? Google “William Gray maritime” or “Bill Gray maritime” and tell me what you find?

But does it matter? To a man The Forum has a pretty clear view on US Flag ships and shipping. Anyone else, well I suppose make em walk the plank and let God sort it out.

pray tell us what you mean exactly? Nobody from this forum was interviewed on a national news network in relation to this story!

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[QUOTE=c.captain;133139]strange how a supposed “expert and consultant in shipbuilding, operations and regulations” has no web footprint at all? Google “William Gray maritime” or “Bill Gray maritime” and tell me what you find?

pray tell us what you mean exactly? Nobody from this forum was interviewed on a national news network in relation to this story![/QUOTE]

Like I said, I have heard or read the name. Maybe he is a maritime lawyer advancing a position, but who cares? He was a wanker with an opinion that got on the radio. It is a little interesting to see the angle against the Jones Act coming out in the press in dribs and drabs.

I think gCaptain Forum users are well in favor of US flag ships, US mariners and cabotage for US flag ships (and trucks and planes) operating between two points in the US.

Well paid, skilled jobs and meaningful CAREERS for US mariners that you can actually raise an American family on, in some American standard of decency.

It worked for me and it is still working (apparently much better) for my family that is drilling in the GOM and shipping out foreign right now. I hope those kids save their damned big money, 'cuz I remember stacked boats in 1987/88 and having to throw in a 11 month old Group I card for a job!

If you are against Americans working in America, simply because it is “cheaper” or “convenient” to use foreign flag ships on OUR domestic routes, I consider it treasonous. (John McCain are you listening?) .

I don’t know what to think of the Build US requirement, but that is a lot of great jobs, feeding a lot of American families right now, so I am hard pressed to criticize because it is “convenient.” Shit I wear Red Wings and buy made in USA clothes, have only US made cars and have Ethan Allen furniture for every single thing I can get.

I may be a prick now, but I am damned thankful to OUR country, OUR schools, OUR laws and what MEBA made possible in MY own life, and I am not forgetting the kids nowadays

Bill Grey? Who cares?

That is exactly what I mean. :cool:

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Here you go Grumpy

[I]Marine Log[/I] Nov 2010 pg 57

Also some studies for MARAD

http://www.igms.org/sites/default/files/publishedworks/americas_deep_blue_highway_IGMS_report_sept_2008.pdf

http://www.cmts.gov/downloads/TRB_279_Report.pdf

http://savepassamaquoddybay.org/documents/navigation-safety/channel_design-ship_maneuverability.pdf

President, Gray Maritime Company, Darien, CT

Sorry - the keywords in my addled brainbox metafile were only “William Gray” and “CT” but not too bad after thinking on it.

Go get 'em tiger, but we probably should read the reports first to see what the fellow actually said and why.

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alright, those links did at least provide some information on the man’s professional background yet I feel his comments on NPR served no useful purpose other than to state of obvious that the US does not have the same shipbuilding industry of a South Korea or China which does not negate the facts that the US still does have the ability to build merchant ships and given enough demand, can still deliver. As I have stated before, to say that is costs more to build in the US is a pointless red herring as the ship owners can still make profits with those ships even though they and their crews cost more. This is pretty much a universal truth but he made no particular argument why this is harmful to the US economy or any of our national interests such as defense. The only negative is that the cost to move goods coastwise by ship could be lower if foreign built vessels manned with foreign seaman could do the same for less but that only serves the interests of business and the profits they make yet he was too scared of a little man to actually come out and say that, so instead he disparages the industry without genuine valid reason. THAT IS WHAT I OBJECT TO! If you’re gonna trash something at least have the courage to say why you are!

these are his comments per NPR

But others say the Jones Act is pure protectionism for shipbuilders and unions. William Gray, an expert and consultant in shipbuilding, operations and regulations, says a lack of competition means the U.S. shipbuilders became less efficient and not as technologically advanced as builders in other parts of the world.

After A Downturn, Global Shipping Bets Big On Everything “The designing of ships and the engines for ships and the equipment for ships; the United States was not very good at figuring out how to do that,” Gray says.

Gray says shipbuilding in the U.S. has declined dramatically since World War II, and that there are only a handful of major shipyards now. A good percentage of those vessels being built are ordered by the Navy. Gray says the industry cannot keep up with the demand for merchant ships at an affordable price.

“We have very few of these shipyards that we used to have that made the larger ships: tankers, bulk carriers and container ships,” he says. He says the cost is about three times as much as you find in shipyards in China, Japan and South Korea.

while there could be some truth to these comments what indeed here can be considered a valid point worthy of making with regards to the topic of the story? He should say that he feels it is wonderful that merchant ships are being built again in the US and that we should take this opportunity to rebuild the entire shipbuilding base such as the building of slow speed diesels in the US again to power these ships that are designed to operate more efficiently than any others in the world…THOSE ARE VALID COMMENTS WORTH MAKING!

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Apparently they are not mentioning that many overseas yards have benefited hugely from subsidies or national policies promoting shipbuilding because THOSE nations realize shipbuilding IS important for the industrial base, skill sets and jobs thus “created.”

Just look at what Japan did in the 60-70’s, Korea in the 80’s and China in the 90’s.

So, that said, are any subsidies justifiable because winners (big Ag) and losers (maritime) have to be picked? Are we just seeing signs of the struggle?

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c.captain I have to call BS on this. I’ve been interviewed by NPR a half dozen times… they interview you for 30 minutes then cut out and use about 30 seconds of the interview. You simply can’t assume Gray’s motives based on which 30 second sound bite the NPR producer decided to include.

The only line that anger’s me is:

But others say the Jones Act is pure protectionism for shipbuilders and unions.

And notice… it doesn’t have quotations marks around it! So Gray didn’t say it… the radio producer did.

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One of the biggest problems in media is that they are forced by Columbia Journalism Professors and other pHD types to present “both sides of the story”… even when all sides are in agreement. No one is against strengthening American shipbuilding (not even the Koreans) and when NPR can’t find someone willing to rail against it they have to manipulate the conversation. Many talking heads make their living doing just that… providing an opposing view when none exists. But, as far as I can tell, Gray doesn’t make his living as a talking head.

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“But others say” with his name immediately following that line? Certainly the producer is not making that claim for themselves but attributing it to somebody and I say that is Gray!

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[QUOTE=+A465B;133194]Apparently they are not mentioning that many overseas yards have benefited hugely from subsidies or national policies promoting shipbuilding because THOSE nations realize shipbuilding IS important for the industrial base, skill sets and jobs thus “created.”

Just look at what Japan did in the 60-70’s, Korea in the 80’s and China in the 90’s.

So, that said, are any subsidies justifiable because winners (big Ag) and losers (maritime) have to be picked? Are we just seeing signs of the struggle?[/QUOTE]

In this country Big Ag will always be picked over maritime because the Senators of Ag states have no other issues and hardly any actual people to worry about… while Senators of maritime states have large populations and problems that dwarf any one issue. I blame Jefferson.

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[QUOTE=john;133202]I blame Jefferson.[/QUOTE]

would that be George Jefferson? Hell, ol’ George isn’t part of the problem but part of the solution! Afterall, he was a businessman and knew how to profit at the expense of the working class…

I blame the unions and workers in general! Why can’t we get it into our heads that when the rich get richer they buy more mansions, hire more servants and build bigger megayachts? Think of all the jobs the rich support! Viva la 1%!

Movin on up to the funny papers there Steamer…I’ll see your bet and raise you!

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[QUOTE=c.captain;133201]“But others say” with his name immediately following that line? Certainly the producer is not making that claim for themselves but attributing it to somebody and I say that is Gray![/QUOTE]

I’m saying exactly that. The producer is making a claim for himself, he has to, he MUST (as per the “rules” of journalism") present the other side. I’ve been quoted on the front page of the NYTimes, NPR, BBC and countless others, dozens of times… and not once were my true feelings on any subject expressed. Yet, nearly every time, something I said was taken out of context and quoted in a way that altered it’s meaning.

Hell, this is one of the top reasons I created this site. Journalism is broken!! Journalists, along with 99% of the population, simply don’t care about the maritime industry… they care about meeting their deadlines, making the story as compelling as possible and following the “rules” of journalism. The only way to get the truth out is for people who have a stake in the future of their industry (e.g. all the journalists at gCaptain) to create the news. We (gCaptain) can’t pull these games because you, Gray and 100 other people would start calling my phone and calling BS (which, rarely happens after I write an article but ALWAYS happens after my name appears in a major publication). We are not bound by the rules of journalism (I never went to J-school) but we are bound by the ethics of this industry.

Write all the letters you want to NPR… I can assure you they are being handled and filed with the same diligence and care in which your letters to your state’s senator are handled :wink: And while you’re waiting for a reply, I suggest you turn off your TV sets and radios the second you hear the word “ship” or “maritime” mentioned.

P.S. I always get asked the question “If you know the system is broken, if you know the media is going to twist your words… then why do you agree to be interviewed?” The answer is simple… people read my quotes, get mad, and come to gCaptain because to confirm their “assumption” (as you have done with Gray) that I’m a total bozo… then they read a few of gCaptain articles and realize that our articles are much closer to the truth than anything you’ll read in the media. It’s the old bait and switch and I do it because it works. I also do it for another reason… because if they don’t call me they will find someone else… someone without an online platform which can be used to defend himself… to offer the words they want said.

So if you want good news then I must suggest that you turn off your radio’s and TV sets and listen to journalist who A) have a stake in what they are reporting (Journalists who care) and B) will respond (and, when proven wrong, apologize) directly when you write them to call BS.

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Rules? who needs stinking rules? I say it is circumstantially attributable to Gray because the comments he is quoted as making support that initial statement such as:

Gray says the industry cannot keep up with the demand for merchant ships at an affordable price.

Who says they can’t keep up or deliver at an “affordable price”? Who determines what is and what isn’t affordable? Certainly if the ships can be operated profitably then they are defacto affordable albeit at higher cost but we already know that! This BOZO D. CLOWN is being a mouthpiece for big business and I call BULLSHIT on him and on NPR!

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I support the Jones Act as much as you do, I wouldn’t have a job without it, but don’t kid yourself about its merits. It’s a crappy system, even if I benefit from it. Our ships are not affordable because without the law protecting the shipyards, no company in their right mind would be caught dead with an American ship. No one, not even you, C.Captain, can justify paying so many more times than what a product (a ship, in this case) is actually worth. Maybe we make some nice boats here but they are not worth what our companies pay for them. American shipbuilding is an artificial economy, no better than Chinese currency manipulation. The national security reasons alone are enough to keep the Jones Act alive and well, but don’t for one nanosecond imagine that you can argue that the Jones Act makes business sense, because it doesn’t and it never will. You’re peeing on my leg and telling me it’s raining.

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[QUOTE=PaddyWest2012;133214]I support the Jones Act as much as you do, I wouldn’t have a job without it, but don’t kid yourself about its merits. It’s a crappy system, even if I benefit from it. Our ships are not affordable because without the law protecting the shipyards, no company in their right mind would be caught dead with an American ship. No one, not even you, C.Captain, can justify paying so many more times than what a product (a ship, in this case) is actually worth. Maybe we make some nice boats here but they are not worth what our companies pay for them. American shipbuilding is an artificial economy, no better than Chinese currency manipulation. The national security reasons alone are enough to keep the Jones Act alive and well, but don’t for one nanosecond imagine that you can argue that the Jones Act makes business sense, because it doesn’t and it never will. You’re peeing on my leg and telling me it’s raining.[/QUOTE]

BS ON THIS SIR! They are more costly yes but if they can be operated profitably then they are affordable. Yes, consumers who buy petroleum transported by US tankship or barge pay an extra amount because that oil must go on a US vessel by law but no one has ever clearly calculated the exact extra amount per gallon one has to pay. Is it 3 to 5 cents more?..does anyone really know? It obviously it not so high that consumers will not buy the gasoline? The same goes with cargo sent to Alaska, Hawaii or Puerto Rico. Residents and businesses in those places pay a premium but the economies do manage to function and no one can say that the need to use JA qualified ships truly harms them there?

If the cost were so high that the economy was clearly harmed by the added costs of using Jones Act ships then you would have an argument here! Otherwise we both know that protectionism exists throughout ours as well as other world economies. Each and every one of us pays extra because businesses must hire US citizens or resident aliens to work on US soil…nobody knows how much more we pay but we all do pay for laws which ultimately protect out economy by protecting workers. Case closed!