Norwegian Navy

There is another model, which I have outline in another thread not so long ago, Singapore.
Singapore has gone from a third world country to first world in 50 years. This has been done by good governance in a multi-racial society with 4 official languages, but without racial friction and no natural resources.

This is very similar to Switzerland, which was also an inspiration for Mr. Lee Kuan Yau when he drew up the guidelines for the small island state when it involuntarily became independent in 1965.

It was not done by building protective walls (figurally speaking) but by opening up the economy to foreign investment and the boarders to foreign talents to develop the most business friendly country in the world.

Today Singapore is among the richest country in the world in terms of GDP (PPP) per capita, bypassing even Norway with it’s oil and gas and all other European countries, except Monaco and Luxembourg. (USA is far from the top in this category)

Singapore is not a “tax haven” per se, but with low personal and corporate tax, thus it has attracted companies and people from all over the world, but managed to keep control of the influx of foreign labourers from the far less prosperous neighbouring countries.

Could it be a model for others? Many think so, but I’m not sure if it would fit USA.

Singapore is a trade hub and city state. Not exactly a position many countries find itself in.

Yes that is right, that is what Singapore is, but what it was before independence was a former British Colony that had for a short spell been a part of the newly minted Malaysia, formed together with the Malay Federation and the two British Colonies,Sarawak and North Borneo. (Now Sabah)
Oil rich Brunei did not want to join.

In August, 1965, when Singapore was unceremoniously ejected from Malaysia for racial and political reasons, it was still totally dependent on the British Military, who represented over 1/3 of the employment source. They pulled out in 1971.

The nearest to a “natural resource” Singapore had was it’s location and a trainable and hard working labour force. From that the modern Singapore was crafted, not by one man, but by a team of dedicated and incorruptible political leaders, which was another very important “resource”, but far from natural in that region. (Or anywhere)

The US is the world’s largest consumer marketplace. The US is the world’s largest economy. The US dollar is the world’s reserve currency. US Government bonds are the safest and largest publicly traded investment in the world. If not for the loss of privacy and high taxes, the US economy would be many times larger. If US had Swiss style secret banking, it would bring enormous prosperity and economic dominance for the US.

A strong economy is the fundamental cornerstone of a strong defense.

Oh I almost forgot, this thread had something to do with the Norwegian Navy.
Well, never mind that, since all other threads about Norway has been closed, here is some news for you.

Last chance to see the full midnight sun above horizon from North Cape is on 29. July, so if you wants to experience that you better hurry up: http://www.radionordkapp.no/nyheter/3570/snart-slutt-pa-midnattssola/

Well, it is still possible to do so at Svalbard. The last possibility in Longyearbyen isn’t until 22. Aug. (Even later at Ny-Aalesund)
Then again, there is always another possibility next year and year after that and…
(Unless somebody accidently hit the wrong button, that is)

Now I know you’re playing the devil’s advocate. Should Poland have tried harder to make friends with Germany? Or China with Japan? Of course not.

As this is a thread about the Norwegian Navy, has South Korea finished and delivered your HNoMS MAUD?

If you mean in the 1930’s and 40’s, the answer is; it probably wouldn’t have helped anyway, given the world as it was then.

If you mean the difference of opinions there is between them today; definitely yes. Times are different and the way people think about relationships between countries are different.

The scare mongery created by the military/industrial complex is self serving, but less and less people buy the theory that everything can be solved by guns, or by gunboat diplomacy.

Not perfect by any means, but it is highly unlikely that Germany would attack Poland, or Japan attack China today. Likewise, that Russia would attack either USA, or any other NATO country.

If noting else, because all the major nuclear powers (USA, Russia, China) are fully aware that starting a war against each other would be “mutual assured destruction” (MAD), or at least too costly to be considered.

Let’s hope that no madman in either one of those countries get in a position where he could “hit that button” alone, without checks and balances.

Not sure, but I could find out tomorrow. (Or you can Google it)
Good Night.

Still in Korea.

Because people are more civilized and enlightened now as opposed to in the past? (Haven’t people been saying that for a long time?)

In fact just the other day Admiral Scott, Commander, US Pacific Fleet, remarked he would launch a nuclear strike against China “next week” if President Donald Turmp ordered it.

I’m sure you remember our previous President Obama going hand-in-hand with enlightened Europe into Libya. That turned out well. Or President Bush into Iraq and Afghanistan.

So maybe the Americans are the warmongers?

This year we celebrate seventy years of India/Pakistan division and the wars, millions of dead and displaced, and nuclear weapons that created. (You’d think after seventy years they would have solved the issue?)

And on and on and on. We all kill each other as much now as we ever did. You’re not a fool so you know this. It’s just that hopey-dreamy stuff that deludes people into thinking that ‘this time will be different.’ This time the tool-using apes have achieved enlightenment and are no longer driven by fear, desire, envy or pride.

Maybe just maybe Europe learned after two destructive world wars that left the continent in the hands of outside powers, that to fight wars are a zero sum game. The world is so entwined that everyone loses on war. That USA keeps a military to fight of an alien attack is your choice. After the nuke all you had to do was say, mess with us and we nuke you. People will believe it, USA is that unpredictable.

I just wish US stores would carry some of the actual good food they have over there. Seriously, Wäsa crispbread is worse than lutefisk. But the pate and stuff in tubes is pretty dang good.

Wasa Crispbread is Swedish. Try Norwegian Flatbread Korni and you’ll love it: http://www.kavli.no/Produkter-og-varemerker/Korni/Korni-Flatbroed

Not to mention Caviar. Not the Russian variety made from Sturgeon Roe, but the Norwegian one in tubes, made from smoked cod roe from Lofoten: https://www.mills.no/mills/produkter/kaviar/
OK, there MAY be some roe from Alaskan Cod mixed in with the cheaper brands made in Sweden, but not Mills.

This week, at a Tattoo, I have seen the band and drill company of Norway’s ‘H.M. Kongens Garde’.
I can confirm, the participants had no bar codes tattooed, at least not on the visible parts of their skin.
They presented an impressive and precise drill performance; I liked it very much.

There was also the ‘United States Army Old Guard Fife and Drum Corps’, no second to the Norwegians.
My impression: The same nearly perfect precision, but, may be, a bit more challenging drill figures.

That is good. Free and fair competition in an international setting.
I wish that could be the way all things were done and guns used only to show of in drills.

[quote=“DeckApe, post:96, topic:45586, full:true”]
Because people are more civilized and enlightened now as opposed to in the past? (Haven’t people been saying that for a long time?)[/quote]
Yes people HAVE become more civilized and yes…, that is what have been said for a long time.
Let’s hope it can continue to be the case in the future as well.

That is the most worrying, that the military brass will blindly follow order, without consideration to the consequences for their country, their families and the world at large.
That is of course what they have been trained to do, but in our “enlightened world” one would hope that there would be somebody with enough backbone to stop a madman, even if he is their President, PM or King. (That applies universally)

Yes I remember and I agree; if you are going to attack another country to change the regime you better have a plan for what happens next. “You break it, you bought it”.
I can also remember Kennedy/Johnson being sucked into a war in S.E.Asia that they could not win, and Reagan attacking a tiny island in the Caribbean and…

Well, what do you think?? How many wars have America been directly, or indirectly through proxies, involved in since WWII?
I realize that you have to have a reason to keep a big Army, Navy and Air Force active and the world in awe of your power to maintain hegemony, but the world is not as impressed, or afraid anymore.
Although, looking at what is going on in Washington these days, it may be time to get REALLY scared.

Yes, one of the last vestiges of a colonial past. It would be nice if they could settle their differences after 70 years, but with the vested interests of the ruling classes and military on both sides in keeping the conflict going, don’t hold your breath.
The meddling by Superpowers during the Cold War and the changing allegiances since, hasn’t made it any more likely to happen soon.

The last sentence is sarcasm I hope? BTW; You forgot greed, one of the main driving forces.
Otherwise, thanks for your kind judgment, it’s not often I get credit for any knowledge,judgment or intelligence on this forum.
We can only hope that this time it WILL be different, unless some old thinking, or old fools, get in the way.

I agree, it is chilling to hear one of the anointed make that statement but the alternative is equally chilling. While there are a few instances where someone with “backbone” said no to a madman’s orders, history has shown that the same backbone allows the generals to not just say “no” to madmen but to take complete control. The results to date have arguably been as bad or worse.

I honestly believe the US is presently under the management of a madman who seems to be surrounding himself with more madmen and lapdogs so the idea of a madman at the button is no longer just a Hollywood film plot.

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Frighteningly true.

Nothing can be worse than a war between USA and either Russia or China (or both), which is likely to escalate into a nuclear conflict, the effect of which will not be limited to those three countries.

Both Russia and China has declared that they will not be first to use such weapons, but if they are attacked or threatened and provoked. they may end up doing so anyhow.

No leader would hold back if their cities are bombed and thousands of their people killed over ideological disputes, or dispute over trading rights with an adversary led by a madman without checks and balances. That also applies if USA should be the one being attacked.

But since Russia is now too weak and hemmed in to do so and China is not interested in taking over the responsibilities of being the world hegemony, neither is likely to fire the first shot.
Besides, China has never been expansionist, or have ever occupied any other country. Their only interested is to secure the sea routes and trade routes to maintain their position as the world’s premier trader.

You only have to look at a map to see why they wants to control the North and South China Sea and loosen the US grip on the Philippines and Indonesia, as long as USA looks at China as an adversary and a threat to it’s dominance in Asia.

I’m sorry to say that what the world worry most about right now is what is happening in USA.
If the democratic bulwark that keep the military/industrial complex and the ultra nationalists in check should break down, only God knows what will happen.

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