No U.S. Bailout for Major Cruise Lines

Professional Mariner Forum
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I feel bad for the cruise lines and all the crews. At the end of this, no other industry will be hit as hard as the cruise lines. But I also feel this is the right thing to do, given the fact that these companies have done everything in their power to avoid contributing to taxes and the U.S. flag. Hopefully the small U.S. flagged vessels will get some help.

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Would you care to provide a basis for that statement?

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Maybe not included directly by name but that secret slush fund wasn’t included for the benefit of American working class folks.

Remember this crap when you visit the polls in November. Do not return a single incumbent to office. No matter how good you think “your” representative is, you are wrong. If any of them were worth the oxygen they consume they would be screaming bloody murder at this level of corruption.

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Why? What has any of the major cruise lines ever done for you or any of us here? If they ALL went under, how many US citizens would lose their jobs?

This $454B (apparently leverageable up to $4.5T) is OUR money and not a dime of it should go to these USINO (US In Name Only) companies.

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I’m with Hawsepiper… if they don’t want to play by US corporate and maritime law, then they can go pound sand. All of them. And maybe the cruise lines that come after them will learn a lesson from this.

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Still invested money into them they will bounce back

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I used to think the cruise industry was a safe investment because the old grey hairs already had money & many of them have recession proof incomes. Old people are the bread & butter for the cruise industry. But now theres a disease that specifically targets old people & that disease is easily spread on cruise ships. The cruise ship industry will never be the same after this IMO.

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Well if it comes up to half of what it latest peak price it was per share it will still be a profit and I can sell and get out

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Trump favors making cruise ships pay U.S. taxes to get coronavirus aid President ‘likes the concept’ of cruise ships being based in the United States .President Donald Trump is open to the idea of making foreign-flagged cruise ships register in the United States in order to get federal loans to support operations amid coronavirus-related shutdowns.

But the president is clearly also concerned about the effect of an industry collapse on local economies that serve as ports-of-call.

Asked about a call by Republican Sen. Josh Hawley of Missouri for cruise ship companies to become based in the United States, Trump said, “I like the concept.”
“Come back to America. And pay your taxes,” Hawley tweeted Thursday afternoon. “How about that?”

Hawley was responding to a CNBC report that said the cruise industry was “not confident” it could qualify for access to federal government loan programs in the phase three stimulus package that is expected to clear the House on Friday. Cruise ships are regularly flagged in foreign countries such as Panama and Liberia.

The move has allowed them to avoid paying many U.S. corporate taxes and has been part of a long-running battle with Capitol Hill over both tax payments and application of labor laws.

“I do like the concept of, perhaps, coming in and registering here. Coming into the United States,” Trump said at Thursday’s daily briefing on the coronavirus response. “It’s very tough to make a loan to a company when they’re based in a different country.”

The economic stimulus bill provides $500 billion for loans and loan guarantees to businesses affected by the epidemic, but in order to be eligible for those loans, a company must be “created or organized in the United States or under the laws of the United States” and “have significant operations in and a majority of its employees based in the United States.”

While many major cruise lines have operations in America, they often incorporate elsewhere for tax reasons under so-called “foreign flag laws.”

They have thousands and thousands of people that work there, and almost maybe as importantly that work on shore filling these ships with goods and products,” the president said Thursday. “The cruise line business is very important.”

Speaking at the White House, Trump seemed particularly concerned with the industry’s effect on the economy of U.S. cities and towns where the ships often drop anchor. He talked about shops and businesses that are sustained by visits of the seafaring behemoths.

“It’s a big business. It’s a great business,” he said. “It’s a business that employs a tremendous number of people outside of the ship itself.”
The Connecticut lawmaker has introduced a bill aimed at ensuring adequate medical personnel and legal authority on cruise ships. Rep. Doris Matsui, D-Calif., has introduced a House version of the bill.

While Trump repeatedly has suggested some sort of aid for the cruise industry in the past few weeks, the Senate bill did not single out the industry for help, as it did for airlines, transit and Amtrak.

Still, the Cruise Lines Industry Association, in a statement released Thursday, said it was grateful that the association’s travel agent members could receive relief under the bill as small and medium-sized businesses.

Before the outbreak, the association had projected that some 32 million people would go on cruises this year.

“For the more than 421,000 people in the United States whose jobs are supported by the cruise industry, we will continue to work with policymakers to help our community recover from the impact of this pandemic,” the association’s statement read.
Hawley is not at all alone in expressing that the cruise ships should formally move their businesses and registration to the United States to get the support of the Treasury Department. The industry could have easily argued that the federal government hurt it. On May 17, the CDC recommended that travelers defer all cruises because of the pandemic. That recommendation came after vast outbreaks left two Princess cruise ships docked and quarantined in California and Japan. By mid-March, most major cruise carriers had halted U.S. departures.

Still, aid specifically to that industry would have likely been met with heavy resistance from Democrats, who argue it makes little sense to bail out an industry that does not pay most of the applicable U.S. taxes and is not subject to more strict U.S. employment and regulatory requirements.

“They aren’t American,” Rep. Peter A. DeFazio, D-Ore., chairman of the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee, said earlier this month. “They don’t pay taxes in the United States of America.”

Democratic Sen. Richard Blumenthal previously said, “I would oppose a bailout for the cruise industry.”

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Carnival headquarters is in Miami. Holland America (owned by Carnival) is headquartered in Seattle.

All other claims are a facade, a fiction created to make FoC shipping a cash cow for well connected American investors.

The industry is a filthy sham and given the history of some of its major players, will find a way to dip into the $500 billion trough of cash. With scumbags like “I’ll be the oversight” Trump holding the purse strings it is inevitable that wholesale corruption will follow.

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MSC is ignoring the express terms of the collective bargaining agreement with its cruise ship employees. The line is attempting to convince them to waive their two months of wages per the agreement by suggesting that if they elect to leave the ships now, it may hire them back. The notice does not explain that by signing the document, the employees are waiving their right to receive payment pursuant to the terms of the CBA and contains no guarantee of rehire.

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And then we have Mickey Arison’s generous offer to lend ships to help the cause but details are notably absent. This article details how this worked out last time his ships were “lent” to FEMA. Incidentally his personal worth is $20 billion.

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US President Donald Trump on Thursday said he approved of American cruise lines incorporating themselves domestically if they want to access loans from a massive stimulus package.

Finally some sanity in the administration’s promise of public welfare for the cruise lines except for one tiny detail. Even if they switch to the US flag, where is the justification for classifying them as essential businesses?

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Remember the re-flagging of the Kuwaiti tankers. They were US flag long enough to get protection. Once they no longer needed it they reverted and the US Flag dropped from the stern.

Edit: Thanks K.C. for the topic consolidation. :+1:

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The Trump administration seems determined to bailout the industry. Seems likely they’d be looking for a workaround.

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I have to wonder how much of a role the long relationship and business ties between Arison and Trump play in all this. Maybe nothing but who knows?

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They are part of the old boys network. They will always support each other, no matter what.

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Oh those Corporate debts…

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I don’t care for the cruise lines so much as the US based vendors, those vendors will have a tough time until things pick back up.

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Y’all need to calm down a bit, am not in favor of a bailout but fact is that the cruise industry contributes billions to the US economy. If they go belly up we have another half million unemployed workers…