New Ship? El Faro Eye Opener!

Maritime Academy SUNY Maritime
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[QUOTE=Slick Cam;170822]Personally I like the idea some have broached in Congress along the lines of a National Response Vessel (forget the actual wording). Basically a proposal to build a number of multi-purpose ships that are equipped to respond to oil spills, and natural disasters, and whatever other emergency may spring up stateside, and simultaneously be used as training platforms for the respective academies. A truly multi-purpose vessel could fulfill many roles for the nation. I think its pie-in-the-sky dreaming to think it would actually come to fruition, but I like the idea.[/QUOTE]

That would make too much sense. Remember who’s running the show here.

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Explains the company’s “tutor vessels.”

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MARAD has a highly qualified new National Coordinator for Maritime Education and Training. Maybe things will improve.

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Lifted from a Press Release[I]
“Chevron Texaco has ordered five Virtual Engine Room units for Chevron’s new purpose-built cadet training ship “Capricorn Voyager” - the first fleet vessel in a decade to include a dedicated deck and engineer cadet training deck.”
[/I]

Chevron has done something similar in their International Fleet, they added a deck on an aframax so they can carry 6 engine and 6 deck cadets. The cadet program is a little different, they pick students early on and they basically become employees. They carry an additional officer who’s whole duty is to facilitate their training.

On my ship I try to make sure the Cadets get plenty of time to do their course work, but also are involved in everything going on. I don’t make them attend every maneuvering as was the norm during my sea year, but do expect them to be able to do the routine 3rd Engineer’s jobs by the time they get off. Of course, it is nice when you have such an eager learner that you have to make them take time off…

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[QUOTE=btm;170834]http://www.bigliftshipping.com/assets/data/bignews/BigNews_24.pdf

Explains the company’s “tutor vessels.”[/QUOTE]

Excellent. The Dutch beat us to and have proven the concept over the last five years. We should copy this realistic and successful approach to training.

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Word on the street is GLMA is now going to 2 summer training cruises with the State of Michigan to accommodate more TAMUG cadets. Apparently MARAD said something like (re the State) “Use it or lose it.”

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[QUOTE=socalguy;170864]Word on the street is GLMA is now going to 2 summer training cruises with the State of Michigan to accommodate more TAMUG cadets. Apparently MARAD said something like (re the State) “Use it or lose it.”[/QUOTE]

Interesting. TMA was being accommodated primarily in the last few years by Cal and Suny, plus two A&M cruises on the General Rudder (about 110 cadets). Last I heard was the Golden Bear was going to be utilized with one cruise primarily Cal, and the second primarily Texas, with a Texas Captain and instructors… though I could be wrong.

28

Color me stupid, there are what, five (Maine, Mass, NY, Texas, Cal and Great Lakes), no; six “state” schools. What about a single federally funded ship to meet their needs? Great Lakes could be left out of the rotation since their mission and sailing on the Great Lakes is different from the Salties. . . A single ship would then not spend most of its time tied to the dock, becoming a burden. . . . Voyages could be planned to rotate around the coast. . . cadets could be flown to and from the vessel. . . HAS to be cheaper than funding FIVE different vessels that only operate a couple of months a year. . . . Schools could even double up - shared camaraderie between the schools. . . although I do believe that the best way is cadet shipping on commercial vessels. . . . unfortunately this is one thing that I believe the rest of the world does better. . .

29

I don’t think that’s a good solution. Each state is big enough and has a big enough student body to warrant their own vessel. Also it would actually be a scheduling nightmare. The current practice of having a fall and spring semester, like almost every other college and university out there, and sea term during summer is a good one. I don’t see how you’d be able to change it up without major disruptions to how education is organized.

30

I can only speak about the TS State of Maine, but I figured I’d add my thoughts.

The [I]State of Maine[/I], (Lauched in 89, into service for the academy in 1997), while slightly outdated and commonly referred to as the T.S. POS, provides some great training to the students at MMA. It gives a place to train and get hands on experience to students that might not happen without it. Incoming freshman get their first taste of ship life while living on the ship during MUG month and RPT, they work maintenance and stand watches. These experiences alone, coupled with Freshman Cruise, prepare students for their first commerical experience of Cadet Shipping. On Junior cruise, the elder students essentially run the ship, and have the paid crew watching over their shoulder, and answering questions when needed. The training ship provides an incredible value from an educational standpoint.

The safety features leave something to be desired. The TS State of Maine, is equippped with two open top lifeboats, as well as a complement of liferafts. I would like to see all the academies and MARAD make a sustained effort to ensure the safety equipment on these vessels is up to par with current commerical and common sense standards. Incidents like El Faro don’t happen often, but the Acadmies that train out students should have the best safety and live saving equipment available.

31

I have attended schools on the semester system, the tri-master system, the quarter system, and with one month modules. A year around schedule with one, two, or three months of class followed by the same amount of time at sea, is similar to what some of the U.K. Schools do and it is a proven model.

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Chevron has an Aframax vessel that was built with an extra deck for accommodating 12 cadets. They also had a few desktop simulators installed as well. They add an extra officer to facilitate the training,whose only duty is managing the cadets.

To the best of my understanding they look for cadets who intend to sail, and they do all their cadet time with Chevron, which develops them as future employees.

33

[QUOTE=Tankerengr;170991]Chevron has an Aframax vessel that was built with an extra deck for accommodating 12 cadets. They also had a few desktop simulators installed as well. They add an extra officer to facilitate the training,whose only duty is managing the cadets.

To the best of my understanding they look for cadets who intend to sail, and they do all their cadet time with Chevron, which develops them as future employees.[/QUOTE]

I don’t know if they still operate this way, but when I was with ABS, Chevron split their foreign flag fleet between Norther European Officers and Italian Officers. I believe that their internal cadet program works that way. I can say that my experience with Chevron’s officers was very good and they were all very professional. I spent about a week riding onboard one of their tankers for Class tank inspection, bulkhead testing (rafting and gauging - the fun stuff) some years ago. I also spent quite a bit of time on the ULCCs out at the Galveston Lightering Area. As I stated elsewhere, we most other countries go about training their officers very differently from the way we do in the US. It is also VERY common for, say an British or Dutch officer to sail on out flagged ships - much more so than US. . . I have felt for some time that we really need to rethink how we train and employ our maritime personnel. . . however the respective Academy Alumni associations have quite a bit of sway.

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The academy ships are too obsolete and too expensive to operate. They spend three quarters of their time wasted alongside the dock. They do not provide relevant real experience. This isn’t the 1950’s anymore.

It might make sense for the academies to operate commercial ships, especially short sea shipping that cannot survive without subsidies. For example: the Maine to Nova Scotia ferry, and upcoming Cuba to Florida ferries that we will undoubtedly have in a few years.

It would make more sense to try the Dutch model, with dedicated training facilities installed on commercial ships.

The academies were founded to be trade schools run by experienced Mariners, not liberal arts colleges. Yet, they have become liberal arts colleges run by the state education bureaucracies, and liberal arts Ph.Ds that look down their nose at real Mariners who lack advanced degrees. At some academies the non-maritime degree programs are taking over the school.

As I understand it, the U.K. Schools are a three year program with half of the time spent in class and half of the time at sea on real ships which leads to a “National Diploma” ( better than our associates degree, but not a BA). Students have the option of going for a 4th year and receiving an “Honors Degree” (which is the equivalent of a BA.). That makes sense to me.

35

[QUOTE=tugsailor;171058]The academy ships are too obsolete and too expensive to operate. They spend three quarters of their time wasted alongside the dock. They do not provide relevant real experience. This isn’t the 1950’s anymore.

It might make sense for the academies to operate commercial ships, especially short sea shipping that cannot survive without subsidies. For example: the Maine to Nova Scotia ferry, and upcoming Cuba to Florida ferries that we will undoubtedly have in a few years.

It would make more sense to try the Dutch model, with dedicated training facilities installed on commercial ships.

The academies were founded to be trade schools run by experienced Mariners, not liberal arts colleges. Yet, they have become liberal arts colleges run by the state education bureaucracies, and liberal arts Ph.Ds that look down their nose at real Mariners who lack advanced degrees. At some academies the non-maritime degree programs are taking over the school.

As I understand it, the U.K. Schools are a three year program with half of the time spent in class and half of the time at sea on real ships which leads to a “National Diploma” ( better than our associates degree, but not a BA). Students have the option of going for a 4th year and receiving an “Honors Degree” (which is the equivalent of a BA.). That makes sense to me.[/QUOTE]

The academy doesn’t mind for a student going in for liberal arts a/o multiple hogwash degrees to figure out “what they want to do in life”. That’s the jackpot and yet for the student it’s the paradox of choice.

It’s sad I have good friends who have gone the liberal arts route then had to go license after all those years because they couldn’t advance in their respective fields without some real weight on their resume (or a golden ticket connection).

36

[QUOTE=tugsailor;171058]The academy ships are too obsolete and too expensive to operate. They spend three quarters of their time wasted alongside the dock. They do not provide relevant real experience. This isn’t the 1950’s anymore.

It might make sense for the academies to operate commercial ships, especially short sea shipping that cannot survive without subsidies. For example: the Maine to Nova Scotia ferry, and upcoming Cuba to Florida ferries that we will undoubtedly have in a few years.

It would make more sense to try the Dutch model, with dedicated training facilities installed on commercial ships.

The academies were founded to be trade schools run by experienced Mariners, not liberal arts colleges. Yet, they have become liberal arts colleges run by the state education bureaucracies, and liberal arts Ph.Ds that look down their nose at real Mariners who lack advanced degrees. At some academies the non-maritime degree programs are taking over the school.

As I understand it, the U.K. Schools are a three year program with half of the time spent in class and half of the time at sea on real ships which leads to a “National Diploma” ( better than our associates degree, but not a BA). Students have the option of going for a 4th year and receiving an “Honors Degree” (which is the equivalent of a BA.). That makes sense to me.[/QUOTE]

I work with a Scotsman who went through the UK licensing program. Apprenticed in a turbine factory, sailed assistant engineer for sea time and went to the Nautical college in between . . .

37

[QUOTE=tugsailor;171058]The academy ships are too obsolete and too expensive to operate. They spend three quarters of their time wasted alongside the dock. They do not provide relevant real experience. This isn’t the 1950’s anymore.

It might make sense for the academies to operate commercial ships, especially short sea shipping that cannot survive without subsidies. For example: the Maine to Nova Scotia ferry, and upcoming Cuba to Florida ferries that we will undoubtedly have in a few years.

It would make more sense to try the Dutch model, with dedicated training facilities installed on commercial ships.

The academies were founded to be trade schools run by experienced Mariners, not liberal arts colleges. Yet, they have become liberal arts colleges run by the state education bureaucracies, and liberal arts Ph.Ds that look down their nose at real Mariners who lack advanced degrees. At some academies the non-maritime degree programs are taking over the school.

As I understand it, the U.K. Schools are a three year program with half of the time spent in class and half of the time at sea on real ships which leads to a “National Diploma” ( better than our associates degree, but not a BA). Students have the option of going for a 4th year and receiving an “Honors Degree” (which is the equivalent of a BA.). That makes sense to me.[/QUOTE]

I can’t speak for those who went for a mate’s license, but I know that the time along the dock was not wasted for the engineers. The majority of the maintenance occurred while alongside during the semester and it’s difficult to duplicate that with a simulator. Yes, it’s possible to learn it all solely cadet shipping, but the classroom format allowed you to stop and ask questions in a way that just doesn’t seem to happen when you’re trying to get the job done so that the ship can sail. The other bonus is that the maintenance schedule is adapted to fit in with the curriculum. The cadet on the ship I just got off of probably won’t see a piston pull because there just isn’t one coming due during her time on board. The training ship pulled two per semester if I remember right, I was involved with four of them. Same goes for the other inspections and maintenance.

I do like the idea of short sea training ships. It may be difficult to mix it in with the curriculum. For example, imagine a handy size containership running between Oakland and Sacramento. It’d help reduce the amount of truck traffic on the roads and it would be a short enough run`that you could probably load, transit, discharge and transit back in less than 48 hours, rotating students after a certain number of trips.

The liberal arts conundrum is a real one. I was at CMA when it really started growing and bringing in more business and global studies students. On the one hand, it sucked that the focus was shifting, but on the other I could also see the financial benefit. CMA receives X amount of money from the state per student regardless of major. Even if you were to get rid of all training ships, sailing majors still need more training resources in the form of simulators, labs and hands on learning experiences. All a business student needs is a desk in a classroom. I’m sure the school makes money off of all the students, but I’m pretty sure they make more money off of non-sailing students. I don’t have experience with the financial arrangements at the other state schools so I can’t say if this is the case or not.

The Dutch model appears to have some definite advantages. The issue I see with that is the relatively low number of US hulls coming into service. How long will the “boom” that we’re experiencing now last? Long enough to develop a program and enlist companies? Or will we have to wait til the next cycle of shipbuilding?

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I had remembered hearing something earlier this year about the plan to design a new class of training ship.

From MARAD

https://www.transportation.gov/fastlane/investment-maritime-education-keeps-america-strong

That’s not all—President Obama’s 2016 Budget includes $5 million for the design of a National Security Multi-Mission Vessel (NSMV). The NSMV would be the first purpose-built Academy training ship. The first one will replace the EMPIRE STATE, New York Maritime’s 53-year old training ship. It would also be capable of supporting our national interests by deploying in response to emergency and humanitarian assistance missions.

On Maritime TV

http://www.maritimetv.com/Home.aspx

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That is the one I was thinking of! Capital idea, I think.

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http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1982/Custom-Cruise-Ship-2793350/India boom, problem solved haha