One of my deckhands is hoping to earn his 100 - ton license and has run into some bumps getting his Navy sea time. He’s read the most pertinent navy sea time threads here and will likely be employing a license consultant.
Questions:
He has something like 720 days actually underway, but every one of them was aboard an SSBN. He has requested and received his sea service transcript, and it is incredibly vague. A follow-up phone call to NAVPERS left him with the impression that’s as good as he’ll get, as his deployment dates and durations still are classified or something (remember, his vessel was part of the strategic nuclear deterrent force).
His rate was machinist mate 1st class - he was a qualified engine room watch supervisor, and also had ship - wide damage control responsibilities.
I assume that, if he is able to get an intelligible accounting of his underway service, only a (small) portion will be credited for deck service. Is that 90 days?
Finally, he has an impressive training transcript, including two years teaching, among other things, basic and advanced firefighting and damage control at the Trident Training Center. Is there any way to get (STCW) credit for that, or does he have to go to Delgado or Fletcher for a week (not for the 100-ton, obviously but down the road).
As I mentioned, he’ll likely hire a consultant … just trying to figure out what he’s looking at if anyone has any insights.
That’s how Navy sea service letters are. Name of ship, your rating, dates you were aboard from date x- to date y. He can submit that plus copies of his evaluations for more in-depth analysis as they say, but as c.captain mentioned, he’s a machinist’s mate, therefore he’s not going to get much time applied to the deck license. He’d be a shoo-in for an engineer’s license, especially with those quals.
He’s certainly free to talk to consultants like Andy Hammond and hire one. Like chicken soup, can’t hurt, might help.
[QUOTE=c.captain;142572]why he fuck should one single day count toward a deck license if he was a snipe?
and why the fuck isn’t the guy trying to get an engineer’s MMC?
sorry in advance…[/QUOTE]
Ha. He said after six years on the Wyoming, he is tired of looking at the engine room. I told him that would be an easier climb, but can’t fault the man for wanting a change …
Maybe take a look at the link. Has some info. My military transcript of sea service had “deck” service written on it. A “history of assignments” looks even more vague as you pointed out. I don’t think engine service is going to qualify for a deck license with regards to sea time - see “Common Delays” P2 of the pamphlet.
[QUOTE=txh2oman;142556]One of my deckhands is hoping to earn his 100 - ton license and has run into some bumps getting his Navy sea time. He’s read the most pertinent navy sea time threads here and will likely be employing a license consultant.
Questions:
He has something like 720 days actually underway, but every one of them was aboard an SSBN. He has requested and received his sea service transcript, and it is incredibly vague. A follow-up phone call to NAVPERS left him with the impression that’s as good as he’ll get, as his deployment dates and durations still are classified or something (remember, his vessel was part of the strategic nuclear deterrent force).
His rate was machinist mate 1st class - he was a qualified engine room watch supervisor, and also had ship - wide damage control responsibilities.
I assume that, if he is able to get an intelligible accounting of his underway service, only a (small) portion will be credited for deck service. Is that 90 days?
Finally, he has an impressive training transcript, including two years teaching, among other things, basic and advanced firefighting and damage control at the Trident Training Center. Is there any way to get (STCW) credit for that, or does he have to go to Delgado or Fletcher for a week (not for the 100-ton, obviously but down the road).
As I mentioned, he’ll likely hire a consultant … just trying to figure out what he’s looking at if anyone has any insights.
thanks!.[/QUOTE]
The NMC will have no issue with his transcript. Tell him to use it. They don’t care about actual days underway vs days inport as they already have a formula to reduce the total number of days service from what is reported on the form. Mr. Cavo has given a detailed explanation elsewhere on this site about how it exactly is calculated.
Submarine service in the engineering department is 100% acceptable for engineering service credit. There is no provision for accepting military engineering time as deck time.
It is highly doubtful that the Navy schools are approved by the CG for training, so none of that training will be acceptable for STCW purposes.
Good luck with THAT! MY experience has been SSBN time (or ANY OTHER submarine) time is USELESS. I’ve known TOO MANY senior Assistant Navigators (ANAVs) that got FUCKED on sea time because they were underwater. Can’t speak to an engineering MMC and subs but if he ain’t pursuing the engine room I’m guessing those days won’t count
[QUOTE=Jolly Tar;142606]Good luck with THAT! MY experience has been SSBN time (or ANY OTHER submarine) time is USELESS. I’ve known TOO MANY senior Assistant Navigators (ANAVs) that got FUCKED on sea time because they were underwater. Can’t speak to an engineering MMC and subs but if he ain’t pursuing the engine room I’m guessing those days won’t count[/QUOTE]
46 CFR 10.232(d)(5):
Sea service obtained on submarines is creditable, as if it were surface vessel service, for deck and engineer
officer and qualified ratings endorsements under the provision of paragraph (a) of this section. For application for deck
officer and qualified ratings endorsements, submarine service may be creditable if at least 25 percent of all service
submitted for the endorsement was obtained on surface vessels (e.g. if 4 years’ total service were submitted for an
original officer endorsement, at least 1 year must have been obtained on surface craft in order for the submarine service
to be eligible for evaluation).
Sea service obtained on submarines is creditable, as if it were surface vessel service, for deck and engineer
officer and qualified ratings endorsements under the provision of paragraph (a) of this section. For application for deck
officer and qualified ratings endorsements, submarine service may be creditable if at least 25 percent of all service
submitted for the endorsement was obtained on surface vessels [B](e.g. if 4 years’ total service were submitted for an
original officer endorsement, at least 1 year must have been obtained on surface craft in order for the submarine service
to be eligible for evaluation).[/B][/QUOTE]
[I]He has something like 720 days actually underway, but every one of them was aboard an SSBN.[/I]
I gotta say I love all the prior service guys who think they’re entitled to whatever endorsements they want in the civilian world. Not saying that’s what your friend is like he’s prbly a cool guy. But it seems like enlisted guys from all sorts of random rates try and get MMCs with no applicable experience other than “I was in the Navy”. He’d prbly be great as a 3AE though since he does have good experience.
Maybe if you would have served your country maybe you would think differently . I think you are out of line by assuming every person that comes out of the service thinks he or she is entitled to something. Because you are incorrect sir.
Further more prior sea time from the navy or coast guard doesn’t really count for anything unless you had a deck rating.
I went down this road. 25 years Navy, 19 of it on sea duty on submarines, over 2850 actual days at sea, submerged in a “deck” rating. I went back and forth between the USCG and Navy and in end I just used my time mating on charter boats and settled on a 50 ton license which will fulfill my need running a charter boat. Good luck to your friend but I believe it’s an uphill battle.
[QUOTE=boats67;142629]
Further more prior sea time from the navy or coast guard doesn’t really count for anything unless you had a deck rating.[/QUOTE]
You are misinformed. My engineering sea time counted toward my QMED rating and is being used in part for qualifying time for my license.
Read the link Quimby put up. The brochure explains it fairly well and refers you to the pertinent parts of the Marine Safety Manual which governs credentialing of mariners. That section of the manual has a chart covering what ratings may be granted credit. It also discusses submarine service.
He posted this, got all negative answers. Then never posted on here again. An unlimited AB is a great credential, but he seemed upset he couldn’t get 3M.
[QUOTE=LI_Domer;142627]I gotta say I love all the prior service guys who think they’re entitled to whatever endorsements they want in the civilian world. Not saying that’s what your friend is like he’s prbly a cool guy. But it seems like enlisted guys from all sorts of random rates try and get MMCs with no applicable experience other than “I was in the Navy”. He’d prbly be great as a 3AE though since he does have good experience.[/QUOTE]
I don’t think he feels entitled. Doesn’t come across that way, anyhow. And he does have other small vessel and OSV experience before and after the Navy.
I will say that it’s really easy (and not actually very helpful) to slap a bumper sticker on your car or share a meme on Facebook that proclaims "I support our troops, " while some concrete action by Congress to make the transition to (and translation of military ratings to) civilian occupations would be a great support and truly meaningful.
Sorry I didn’t mean to suggest he is that way. Just that some of the people I’ve met coming out think they’re gonna land a great job in the maritime industry meanwhile they haven’t actually aligned their career path to have the correct applicable experience. The GI bill is pretty great but I think our services could do a better job career counseling, especially those getting out soon.
For what it’s worth, I was an officer on an SSN and my sea time barely counted towards my deck rating. Like others have stated I found out pretty quickly that Navy sea time does not account for much in the civilian world. Your buddy may have an easier time going QMED or 3AE with his experience, especially as an MM. Since he is trying to work towards deck positions, he just doesn’t have the experience. Most likely he has done very little in control other than qualifying for his dolphins so I doubt he knows very little in regards to navigation or ship handling. If he wants to be a deck officer, than just tell him to go to an academy. Post 9/11 GI Bill should cover his living expenses and student loans will take care of tuition. As long as he isn’t up to his eyebrows in personal debt, he should easily be able to make academy life a financial reality. The reason I am stressing academy life is that it is by far the easiest and fastest way to move up in the Merchant Marine.