MSC proposed CIVMAR crewing model


Doc_Voltron said. “They are not eligible for unemployment unless they resign.

Actually, that is not true. You would not be eligible unless your resignation was for a good cause after your tired to resolve the issues beforehand.

IE., I have documented proof the entire ship turned against me and threw me overboard twice. When I tried to resolve it with Home Office Administration, they did nothing but tried to have me arrested twice because they didn’t like my long hair or the way I dressed. So I quit in fear for my life. “Eligible for benefits


What’s your point? Maybe you should go back and re-read what Voltron said about it originally.


My point? I donno. After reading New3M troll Doc_Voltron with his snarky comment, “I don’t know anybody who works that ratio …Even the SIU is 4:2,” I figured I’d counter-troll New3M’s provincial knowledge, or lack of, by pointing out how America’s largest employer of mariners works that ratio. Maybe if he’d get out more he’d know that? Maybe he just needs to make friends?


Obviously. Maybe if you’d stop drinking the MSC Kool Aid you’d be able to constructively read what Voltron said. Here’s the dumbass comment New3M was replying to:


It’s apparent Doc_Voltron isn’t as eloquent an internet sea lawyer as yourself. He said a few things that make complete sense on the deck plates that would be factually incorrect to your type.

Normal mariners would understand his intent about going from 6:1 to 4:1 to be more normal. “The work leave rotation period was originally 6:1 but was negotiated by the unions to 4:1 in order to be commensurate with prevailing maritime practices.”

The same for your observation. “When the leave is expired they go on Leave Without Pay. They are not eligible for unemployment unless they resign.” Us dummys know he meant that MSC mariners can’t collect unemployment in between hitches. You got hung up on the word ‘resign.’ I guess that’s a useful skill when you’re a Captain.

Naw, I know why I counter-trolled. I’m sick of you ring-knocking ivory tower internet sea-lawyer Captains and Officer types nit-picking on the guys. Oh yeah… with all due respect, SIR!


So, this thread is about MSC personnel, and since @Doc_Voltron was discussing MSC unlicensed policies, it would stand to reason that MSC unlicensed personnel work 4:1, which apparently is better than 6:1.

Anyway, if you bothered to read the quote, I did indeed include the “commensurate with prevailing maritime practices” portion. Which is complete bullshit.

I restate my opinion with a clarification - I don’t know anybody (APPARENTLY EXCEPT FOR MSC UNLICENSED PERSONNEL) who works that ratio at any level unless they choose to.

Not even the SIU.


You really need to work on your reading comprehension, specifically the difference between @Capt_Phoenix and @Xavier6162.

Except he didn’t say “to be more normal” he said “commensurate” which means equivalent, equal, or comparable. It’s factually incorrect and proves he doesn’t have a clue about anything outside MSC.


You couldn’t have made my point any better. Nitpicking sea-lawyering Captain type you are!


I Nitpicked one sentence in Doc’s post. Not intentional, but Inappropriate for what he was trying to convey. But I can’t help myself. I have poor writing, reading and comprehension skills. Plus I have no free will anyway.


Top Contributer

    January 5

Doc_Voltron: I was responding informing you of our requirements and that we do not have shipping articles as well as commenting on the article.
No sir there are no fojreign articles with MSC, all civmars are required to be U.S. Citizens, documented with the U.S. Coast Guard and obtain a SECRET security clearance.

I’m not sure what any of those things you list have to do with mariners signing shipping articles.

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In Reply To

Just Browsing

    January 5

No sir there are no foreign articles with MSC, all civmars are required to be U.S. Citizens, documented with the U.S. Coast Guard and obtain a SECRET security clearance. All Civmars are in a constant deployment program meaning if they’re not on a ship, in training, or in the pool awaiting re-assignm…

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They teach that at the academy, no? I think it’s after ‘how to decorate your ivory tower’ class. :wink:


I do t think that’s entirely accurate. Academy Grads come because it’s a job and they like that it’s a federal job with the Navy. They could get just as much training and advancement shipping out of the hall if they wanted. They leave for commercial shipping when they realize that it sucks being forced to sail for months on end, and you have the same opportunities and pay with more freedom and more time off when you sail in the commercial sector.


Up until recently (2014) it was the norm for recent academy grads to come to MSC, get training and seatime, then bail. I don’t know of many companies where a new mate can get 360 days of seatime in 360 days. On hiring MSC puts mates threw a few months of courses that are not as quick to get when sailing union. That makes it easy to pick up government contract jobs with the union.


I sailed under two year articles well back in the last century. They can’t be serious!


Excuse me are you sailing with MSC?


Are you, and in what capacity?

No I’m not, I do hold an Unlimited Mate’s license though, and many of my friends, and former classmates did decide to sail with them. I agree that the benefit of getting a security clearance and some of the other rarer courses do help, even if you want to leave and sail union instead. The varied opprotunites are certainly a draw. While quickly advancing your license is a benefit, I hear more complaints about the cost of having to ship so long without vacation time. Having 4:1 is still nowhere near comparable to shipping commercially, while outside of MSC you still have the option to ship back to back contracts if you really feel like it.


“No one” actually sails 4:1. Reliefs are always overdue. Try 6-10:1. There. That fits perfectly.

Actually, sailed with a RET that was 6 months overdue. He was not a pleasant person to deal with.

I am approaching 9 weeks myself.


this is something I’ve read here many times and don’t understand. Because I’ve also read here many times that the “pool” in Norfolk/San Diego is always overflowing with so many extra people that they have hired…how can those two things be going on at the same time?

I am anticipating the answer to be “the shore personnel are incompetent” but come on…paper on your desk asking for a relief…many warm bodies out there in the lobby waiting to sail…what am I missing?


The training, medical and security requirements are more excessive than union or non-union shipping.

For example any deck unlicensed or licensed should have completed small arms training within the past six months before being assignable. Small arms training is a week long course and must be renewed annually. Classes are held a few times a month in San Diego, Norfolk and New Jersey and can have up to sixteen students at a time. The usual wait to get a small arms class is a few weeks or up to a month depending on the time of year.

(I’ve glossed over a few things. The requirement is sometimes waived to the aggravation of the ship and mariner. It can be renewed by an onboard instructor if there is one and if the captain permits it - which many don’t. It can also be renewed by afloat training teams that sometimes come around once a year or so.)

Another common roadblock for deck unlicensed, radio and electricians is fall-protection training every two years. There’s a waitlist for that, too.

There are other training things with other renewal periods but you get the idea.

Then there’s medical. When I shipped union medical clearance took an hour at a clinic. Either you were fit or not. If not you went home and fixed it on your own time. With MSC it gets dragged threw a bureaucratic hell that can take weeks to process.

Before I was hired by MSC I had LASIK (laser eye surgery to correct far-sightedness). Years after getting hired I was prevented from getting assigned a ship because I needed a note from my LASIK doctor saying my vision was still good. Not a note from an optometrist. It had to be from THAT doctor or laser eye center. Ridiculous. That took two weeks to resolve and was an easy fix. How long would it take to prove my health if I’d had a chronic medical condition or something bad like a heart attack?

Finally there’s the random security issue. Our clearances are renewed every seven years. Usually it’s just a nuisance but rarely people land in that hell for things like having bad credit, having their identity stolen or if they’d married an immigrant or foreign national. That can take months to resolve.

For most of the above situations folks are required to report to the hall/pool daily and wait. And do nothing. Just wait. In perdition or purgatory. Day after day. Perhaps someday, absolution! Or not. Just wait. And do nothing. (But we still get paid!)


…and don’t forget about STCW required training or others Documents on the verge of expiring. I was aboard a ship short 8 ABs and with no OSs. We were stuck in Norfolk for months. Yet One day we happen to visit the pool (Just for the Hell of it). The newly expanded parking lot was full of sleepy and loitering mariners. The hall was also packed with most seats taken. Met a lot of friends that had been waiting weeks for a ship. Waiting.