Getting my sea service from the navy was a bitch and I had to hire a out side guy to help because all 5 requests were lost…fax and Mail requests. Then it took months. As for money. I paid 1300$ lifeboatmen then I have pay that again for my ab limited test when I take it. I too am hoping Msc hires me but who really knows.
You only qualify for limited?
Edit: Nevermind, read your old posts about it.
jeffrox, awesome fellow submariner, wrote:
Look at getting into MSC as even an SU then work you way into the Radio Room, besides communications, they handle the ship wide LAN.
Also there are ETs and electricians working for the Ship’s Engineer.
Sounds like a good plan, Chief. 
Though I’ve never done it as a job, I’ve been doing IT as a hobby since childhood; it seems I could contribute to IT on the ship. I already sent MSC an email but I plan to give them a call on Thursday which is my next day off.
They have that “Wiper Advancement Program” but I didn’t see anything about an equivalent program for what on the boats we called Forward Compartment (and what the nukes referred to as Coners). I would probably prefer deck rather than “back aft” – like an Ordinary Seaman Advancement Program, if you will – but I’ll be an a-ganger for a while if it gets me back out to sea.
Reminds me of this one a-ganger who helped me out a lot in the process of getting qualified. He helped me understand a lot of stuff about mechanical devices that I wasn’t familiar with, since I’m more of a computer nerd. And then at this party at somebody’s house after I got my dolphins (not a party for me, just a party we were both at), on the back patio he was trying to get me to drink a full glass of beer with him but I don’t drink. I got him to agree to just let me drink like 5% of the glass and that’s the most I’ve ever drunk in my life lol…tasted nasty, I don’t know how people drink. btw did the a-gangers ask you how many spark plugs the diesel has? When I was in, they would do that with all the “wire rates” lol…the correct answer of course is that it has ZERO spark plugs, because a diesel uses compression ignition, aka external combustion – air goes into the cylinder, the piston compresses it and makes it warmer as a result, and the fuel ignites when added to the hot air – But I didn’t know that at first, so they got me going through all the manuals etc lol…
–Brian
[QUOTE=Menizzi;173502]Getting my sea service from the navy was a bitch and I had to hire a out side guy to help because all 5 requests were lost…fax and Mail requests. Then it took months. As for money. I paid 1300$ lifeboatmen then I have pay that again for my ab limited test when I take it. I too am hoping Msc hires me but who really knows.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I was looking at the procedure for applying and it looks like it takes a while to find out. $1300 sounds about right, that’s roughly what the place in San Diego charges. Well, not RIGHT, because for those of us who don’t have a decent job currently (I have a job, but it’s $11.25/hr; min wage in San Jose is $10.50 and it costs $600+ to rent a room and in this next paycheck I have 55 hours for two weeks), $1300 is actually quite a bit. Well like I said I might look into getting the GI Bill to help with it.
The union has STCW95+RFPNW training, but they only have one facility, at Piney Point, and there’s an involved process to be approved. You have to write a 400 word essay and get a written letter of recommendation from a former employer on company letterhead (the essay would be easy for me, but annoying, but I don’t think any former employer would write a formal letter of recommendation). I don’t even know if they still have the program; some of the pages at their site say it is on hold while they figure out how to implement certain changes in STCW. Have you looked into it? It is called the Paul Hall Center.
No need to pay that amnt to take an AB Ltd test. See AB Exam Study Guides thread. Go to the USCG REC near you for testing. There may be a charge, but it’s nowhere near $1300.
RFPNW is a different story. If you can get hired as an OS at MSC they’ll give you the opportunity to stand your watches and get your Assessments signed off. Then, don’t rely on anyone at MSC to submit your paperwork to the NMC. Do it yourself!
Hi all,
I sailed with them under old name “MSTS” in the 1960’s as both AB & Third Mate. I then left and went with the MMP.
Aside from the slight differences, (pseudo-military stuff & vacations), it’s not really a bad life at all. Throughout the “nautical employment world” there is no outfit that offers more interesting and varying shipboard life (and ships) than MSC. On the regular merchant ship you’ll go back & forth across the oceans like clockwork, but with MSC you might be assigned to a Research, cargo, missile tracker, tanker, or one of the many other types of ships they operate.
I served on the USNS Dutton, a top secret hydrographic ship and our “home port” was Belfast, Lisbon, then Barcelona and later served aboard the USNS Greenville Victory and wandered all over the world.
Best to all,
Perk (:>)
I did a Google G captain search and all I could find was one topic from 2010 and I’ve been through that topic couple months ago the problem I’m having is on my proved papers I’ve got two modules I think it was Deck general and nav general and rules of the road but I could never find out what specific questions would be on the on the test like I have the Murphy’s books for studying for my third mate test but obviously the test for A-B Limited is not gonna include all the questions in deck general or nav general I don’t need to study the whole book I could never find out which particular questions to study for now on rules of the road I believe another AB told me was rules 19-35 I think but I’m not sure on that and I don’t feel like paying for lapware.
[FONT=arial][QUOTE=neutrino78x;173247] Shipmates, so anyone who is serving or has recently served in MSC, can you comment on this? When you go to their main web site, they list only officer jobs. But, they have this page:[/QUOTE][/FONT][QUOTE=neutrino78x;173247]
[FONT=arial]
[/FONT]
[FONT=arial]https://sealiftcommand.com/payscales/wiper-advancement-program/[/FONT]
[FONT=arial]
[/FONT]
[FONT=arial]Is there any point to applying for that even though it is not listed as an open position? [/FONT][/QUOTE]
[FONT=arial]
[/FONT]
[FONT=arial]Their Advancement Programs whether Wiper or Ordinary Seaman is a Merit Promotion Opportunity program and is only open to permanent qualified MSC CIVMARS.
It is a “Very Competitive” process and only a few people per year are selected. Candidates are mostly…almost exclusively from the Supply Department. Being selected does not constitute a promotion to the Advancement Program. It only puts you on a list for consideration. Those that do not pick up a permeate position through the Advancement Program (even those selected and placed on the list) must reapply the following year…and again and again. [/FONT]
[FONT=arial]
[/FONT]
[FONT=arial]One could be number 7 of 20 of the 150 that apply and make the list as Best Qualified one year….not get picked up due to lack of openings……then not make the list at all the following year due to the competitiveness of the process. [/FONT]
[FONT=arial]
[/FONT]
[FONT=arial][QUOTE=neutrino78x;173247] Mind you, I am not really mechnically inclined. But the wiper job sounds like Deck Division on a submarine, and I’ve done plenty of that. [/QUOTE][/FONT]
[FONT=arial]
[/FONT]
OS and Wiper (Non-Advancement Programs) announcements do come up every so often but MSC will only hire those with prior experience. Your submariner duties and experience does not count towards the Deck or Engine Department. Even your sea time will not count. While you can get the Wiper and OS endorsements, you will not work at MSC as an OS or Wiper with only submariner experience. With creative writings of your knowledge, skills and abilities and leaving out any mention of submarines, you might be able to shoe yourself in as an OS position. I worked with a 20 year retired submariner who fought the Cost Guard and MSC for months before settling in as an Supply Utility-man. He is now an OS by way of the OS Advancement Program but he had to volunteer all of his available free time for months (4-6 hours per day) working in the Deck Department.
[FONT=arial]
[/FONT]
Your best bet is to get hired as a Supply Utility-man (SU), volunteer your time (costless hours/weeks/months) in the Deck or Engine Department and then apply for the Advancement Program when it becomes available. For entry level, SUs make an ok/decent living ($4400-$5200) or more per month- depending on type of ship). They work a lot of overtime but their working hours [B][SIZE=5]Suck[/B]. Those guys still have to work (5AM - 6:30PM…or later) even when the ship has [/SIZE]emptied for shore liberty.
[FONT=arial]
[/FONT]
[FONT=arial]
[/FONT]
[FONT=arial][QUOTE=neutrino78x;173247] Anyway…my DD-214 says I have a year of sea time (365 days). [/QUOTE][/FONT]
[FONT=arial]
[/FONT]
[FONT=arial]On a sub……doesn’t count for the Deck or Engine Department. [/FONT]
[FONT=arial]
[/FONT]
[FONT=arial][QUOTE=neutrino78x;173247] I notice MSC has a “job fair” in San Francisco next month. I’m in the Bay Area, so I could go up there on Caltrain. I would be going mainly to ask them about doing the Wiper Advancement thing. [/QUOTE][/FONT]
[FONT=arial]
[/FONT]
Covered. Other the joy of the train ride this would be [FONT=arial]a waste of your time. You will get a lot of information and you will see people get excited about working for MSC. The job fairs usually cover what requirements are needed (Passport , MMD, TWIC) to even submit an application for “[SIZE=4][U][I][B]OPEN[/B][/I][/U]” positions.
[/SIZE][/FONT]
[B][I]Current Open Positions = [/I]https://sealiftcommand.com/now-hiring/
[/B]
[I]Applying for a position not opened is probably not very productive.[/I]
[FONT=arial]
If hired by MSC you will not be required to have STCW and RFPNW. They will give that to you during new employee orientation. If you decide to take it on your own anyway…they will make you retake it again at their expense. Ask me how I know.[/FONT]
xavier6162, an interesting post, I need to hear the worst side of things too. Some people only want to share good news or good experience and don’t want to give you the stuff you don’t want to hear lol.
[QUOTE=Xavier6162;173564]Their Advancement Programs whether Wiper or Ordinary Seaman is a Merit Promotion Opportunity program and is only open to permanent qualified MSC CIVMARS.
It is a “Very Competitive” process and only a few people per year are selected. Candidates are mostly…almost exclusively from the Supply Department. Being selected does not constitute a promotion to the Advancement Program. It only puts you on a list for consideration. Those that do not pick up a permeate position through the Advancement Program (even those selected and placed on the list) must reapply the following year…and again and again. [/quote]
Wow. 
If that’s true, the job description is very misleading. It says it is an entry level position, and the requirements are simply that you have a TWIC and MMC, and knowlege of hand tools and safety procedures, and they will provide STCW95 and RFPEW. They aren’t helping people out who are interested in joining if they aren’t posting accurate information.
Isn’t “wiper” the lowest position on a merchant ship, though? The entry level, inexperienced position? Like paygrade E-1 in the military? Or on submarines, a Non-Useful Body, spoken “NUB”, that is to say, someone not Qualified in Submarines.
In other words if you are currently a wiper, I thought that meant that by definition, you have no prior experience (if you did, you would be higher than a wiper).
hmm.
Well, like I said, I need to hear this side of things too.
Your best bet is to get hired as a Supply Utility-man (SU), volunteer your time (costless hours/weeks/months) in the Deck or Engine Department and then apply for the Advancement Program when it becomes available. For entry level, SUs make an ok/decent living ($4400-$5200) or more per month- depending on type of ship). They work a lot of overtime but their working hours Suck. Those guys still have to work (5AM - 6:30PM…or later) even when the ship has emptied for shore liberty.
Indeed, that sounds rough.
Well, so let me ask you this. How do you feel about this training at a private company in San Diego?
Able Seafarer Deck Program at Training Resources Limited in San Diego
What exactly does that do for me? Is my understanding correct, that taking this and then joining the union (SUP/SIU) would get me good chances of a job at sea? Would I be an OB Seaman after taking those classes, or an AB (Limited or otherwise)?
And more to the point of this thread, would that training help with MSC?
Covered. Other the joy of the train ride this would be a waste of your time. You will get a lot of information and you will see people get excited about working for MSC. The job fairs usually cover what requirements are needed (Passport , MMD, TWIC) to even submit an application for “OPEN” positions. Applying for a position not opened is probably not very productive.
yeah that’s sort of what I thought. I guess the idea of going to that event was to see an MSC rep in person so I could ask them things. But I also noticed that they have a phone number where you can call them, I might do that on Thursday (I work tomorrow, which is wednesday, can’t call them at work, it’s a private security job involving a lot of roving).
If hired by MSC you will not be required to have STCW and RFPNW. They will give that to you during new employee orientation. If you decide to take it on your own anyway…they will make you retake it again at their expense. Ask me how I know.
But having stcw and rfpnw helps you get a job in private industry, right?
This is changing the subject a little bit but is currently relevant to MSC. Word going around right now is that MSC is suspending interim Security Clearances. So when a new hire comes in they were given an interim security clearance while their actual security clearance was being processed (which could be a 6-9 month process). The interim security clearance was granted so that mariners could perform their duties if they involved having access to information that was classified. Without the security clearance or the interim security clearance, in theory, mariners (especially deck officers) would not be able to perform many essential duties. Has anyone that is currently employed or any new hires heard about this? Right now it is going around as a rumor and some solid information would be great. Thanks
[QUOTE=neutrino78x;173619]
………the job description is very misleading. It says it is an entry level position. [/QUOTE]
The job description is correct. But you need to look at the Announcement itself #16-363-01MP (expired 11/16/2015) which details….
[B]“Who May Apply: [/B]
[I]Open to all permanent qualified Military Sealift Command (MSC) Civil Service Mariner (CIVMARS) employees.”[/I]
Tis the reason these types of announcements do not appear on MSC’s employment page. It is not intended for the general public for consideration. MSC can not “Merit Promote” (deserved reward for praised service) from outside employment.
[QUOTE=RoTc4;173650] Word going around right now is that MSC is suspending interim Security Clearances. So when a new hire comes in they were given an interim security clearance while their actual security clearance was being processed (which could be a 6-9 month process). ……Right now it is going around as a rumor and some solid information would be great. Thanks[/QUOTE]
There may be some truth to this. I coming up on 9 months and no Security Interview or Clearance. I just thought because my background is cleaner than most Nuns they just skipped over me. Don’t even have a Facebook page. But methinks I’ll get a phone call soon after this post.
Not you or your family. Your old neighbors might.
1 Like
[QUOTE=Xavier6162;173662]
The job description is correct. But you need to look at the Announcement itself #16-363-01MP (expired 11/16/2015) which details…. “Who May Apply: Open to all permanent qualified Military Sealift Command (MSC) Civil Service Mariner (CIVMARS) employees.”[/COLOR]Tis the reason these types of announcements do not appear on MSC’s employment page. It is not intended for the general public for consideration. MSC can not “Merit Promote” (deserved reward for praised service) from outside employment.[/quote]
Well, crap, shipmate. 
So basically MSC doesn’t have anything right now for which I am qualified. There’s nothing entry level available.
https://sealiftcommand.com/now-hiring/
Maybe I should be posting in the thread where the guy was wondering where to get OB seaman stuff… 
I dunno like I said I’m going to try and call them tomorrow and if I get to talk to a live person…maybe they have stuff that isn’t listed. It seems like in the recent past they had AB Seaman listed but now it has disappeared. Of course, I am not an AB Seaman yet.
[QUOTE=neutrino78x;173667]Maybe I should be posting in the thread where the guy was wondering where to get OB seaman stuff…[/QUOTE]
It’s either OS, which stands for Ordinary Seaman, or AB, which is shorthand for Able Seaman.
[QUOTE=Menizzi;173502]… I paid 1300$ lifeboatmen then I have pay that again for my ab limited test when I take it. [/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=neutrino78x;173528]$1300 sounds about right, that’s roughly what the place in San Diego charges. Well, not RIGHT, because for those of us who don’t have a decent job currently (I have a job, but it’s $11.25/hr; min wage in San Jose is $10.50 and it costs $600+ to rent a room and in this next paycheck I have 55 hours for two weeks), $1300 is actually quite a bit. Well like I said I might look into getting the GI Bill to help with it.[/QUOTE]
You don’t have to take a course for AB. You can take the test on your own from the Coast Guard for a $140 exam fee.
[QUOTE=jdcavo;173677]You don’t have to take a course for AB. You can take the test on your own from the Coast Guard for a $140 exam fee.[/QUOTE]
James, but for STCW you are required to take a practical course, right? Not just written? I’m already qualified Advanced Firefighter from Basic Enlisted Submarine School, and fought two fires while submerged on the submarine (and countless drills), but I haven’t done any of that stuff since 2003.
Plus, apart from MSC, my understanding is that it is rare to find open Ordinary Seaman positions. Most ships have AB Seaman available, rather than Ordinary Seaman, correct?
I guess you need a year of sea time as an ordinary seaman before you can be an AB Seaman. It’s just frustrating that I was in the Navy for four years on a Trident submarine USS Florida SSBN-728 – with 365 days actually out at sea according the DD-214 (Tridents have two crews. while one crew is out to sea with the boat for 3 months, the other crew stays in port. then the boat comes in and we switch roles. the second boat I was on, USS Asheville SSN-758, was in drydock the whole time.) – and according to the USCG I have no sea time.
Well, I don’t have the Sea Service transcript from the Navy yet to give to the USCG. I’m waiting for them to send it. It actually looks like my request got cut off; I did it online, and in the “Reason for request” field, I should have just typed “sea service transcript” but instead I typed “in addition to the DD-214, I also need my Sea Service Transcript, for the purpose of giving it to the Coast Guard in order to get an MMC.” and in the confirmation email, it looked like everything after “in addition to the DD-214” was cut off. Hopefully that’s just a bug in the system for email confirmation…we’ll see. But lesson learned…next time write literally JUST “sea service transcript”.
ok so, if Ordinary Seaman or Wiper Advancement Program is not available in MSC, how would you do it in private industry? My understanding is that you want to get passport, TWIC, MMC, then go take a course for STCW such as the one at Cal Maritime in Vallejo ($1100) or the one at Training Resources Ltd in San Diego ($900 for just the STCW classes), and then join the union, and see if they have any slots for OS. Is that correct? There is a union hall in San Francisco, I can get there on the train (I live in Silicon Valley).
I have no problem going to sea as an OS at union rates. That would be better than my current job. But I don’t have the $1100 for the STCW and I don’t really have the money for the passport and twic and mmc…I would have to get passport, wait two paychecks, get twic, etc. Frustrating…I’m interested in doing this stuff, but if I had a good enough job that I could pay for all that, I would probably stay at that job, right?
[QUOTE=neutrino78x;173696]James, but for STCW you are required to take a practical course, right? Not just written? I’m already qualified Advanced Firefighter from Basic Enlisted Submarine School, and fought two fires while submerged on the submarine (and countless drills), but I haven’t done any of that stuff since 2003.
Plus, apart from MSC, my understanding is that it is rare to find open Ordinary Seaman positions. Most ships have AB Seaman available, rather than Ordinary Seaman, correct?
I guess you need a year of sea time as an ordinary seaman before you can be an AB Seaman. It’s just frustrating that I was in the Navy for four years on a Trident submarine USS Florida SSBN-728 – with 365 days actually out at sea according the DD-214 (Tridents have two crews. while one crew is out to sea with the boat for 3 months, the other crew stays in port. then the boat comes in and we switch roles. the second boat I was on, USS Asheville SSN-758, was in drydock the whole time.) – and according to the USCG I have no sea time.
Well, I don’t have the Sea Service transcript from the Navy yet to give to the USCG. I’m waiting for them to send it. It actually looks like my request got cut off; I did it online, and in the “Reason for request” field, I should have just typed “sea service transcript” but instead I typed “in addition to the DD-214, I also need my Sea Service Transcript, for the purpose of giving it to the Coast Guard in order to get an MMC.” and in the confirmation email, it looked like everything after “in addition to the DD-214” was cut off. Hopefully that’s just a bug in the system for email confirmation…we’ll see. But lesson learned…next time write literally JUST “sea service transcript”.
ok so, if Ordinary Seaman or Wiper Advancement Program is not available in MSC, how would you do it in private industry? My understanding is that you want to get passport, TWIC, MMC, then go take a course for STCW such as the one at Cal Maritime in Vallejo ($1100) or the one at Training Resources Ltd in San Diego ($900 for just the STCW classes), and then join the union, and see if they have any slots for OS. Is that correct? There is a union hall in San Francisco, I can get there on the train (I live in Silicon Valley).
I have no problem going to sea as an OS at union rates. That would be better than my current job. But I don’t have the $1100 for the STCW and I don’t really have the money for the passport and twic and mmc…I would have to get passport, wait two paychecks, get twic, etc. Frustrating…I’m interested in doing this stuff, but if I had a good enough job that I could pay for all that, I would probably stay at that job, right?[/QUOTE]
To my understanding OS jobs open up at MSC once a blue moon, and they pay for you to get your STCW Basic Training. If you really want to get started at any job, get your TWIC and get in an MMC application.
After that you can look for jobs that don’t require international travel, or go past the boundary line. After landing that first job, save up and get your AB rating once you have enough seatime.
Good luck with getting any seatime from the Navy, but as I understand it I wouldn’t count on much. Thanks for your service.
STCW is not required on the Lakes (or rivers?). Vessels sailing up there will be laid up for winter soon.
There are deckhand jobs on line.
[QUOTE=neutrino78x;173696]James, but for STCW you are required to take a practical course, right? Not just written? I’m already qualified Advanced Firefighter from Basic Enlisted Submarine School, and fought two fires while submerged on the submarine (and countless drills), but I haven’t done any of that stuff since 2003. [/QUOTE]
You don’t need a course for STCW Rating Forming Part of a Navigational Watch (RFPNW), but you do need 6 months of sea time performing watch duties and complete a series of practical assessments. If you did the Navy’s PQS for helmsman and lookout, that may cover the assessments.
If you completed Navy recruit basic training, that might cover all of STCW Basic Safety Training except for assessments on survival suits.
But you don’t need a $1300 AB course that only substitutes for a Coast Guard exam. You can study on your own and take the exam from the Coast Guard. And, if you still prefer a course over taking the exam at the Coast Guard, then consider waiting until NMC approves you to take the test. The courses have a one year shelf life and you don’t want to spend that money only to find out you aren’t being approved for AB.
At the risk of adding to your problems, to be employable outside of MSC, you may need STCW training for Security Awareness to be employable.
On the positiver side, if you need to do the assessments for STCW RFPNW, and/or if you need more sea time, we now accept assessments and sea time from inland vessels for STCW, so you might be able to find work where you won’t need STCW and then can work on finishing the rest for STCW.
[QUOTE=neutrino78x;173696]James, but for STCW you are required to take a practical course, right? Not just written? I’m already qualified Advanced Firefighter from Basic Enlisted Submarine School, and fought two fires while submerged on the submarine (and countless drills), but I haven’t done any of that stuff since 2003.
Plus, apart from MSC, my understanding is that it is rare to find open Ordinary Seaman positions. Most ships have AB Seaman available, rather than Ordinary Seaman, correct?
I guess you need a year of sea time as an ordinary seaman before you can be an AB Seaman. It’s just frustrating that I was in the Navy for four years on a Trident submarine USS Florida SSBN-728 – with 365 days actually out at sea according the DD-214 (Tridents have two crews. while one crew is out to sea with the boat for 3 months, the other crew stays in port. then the boat comes in and we switch roles. the second boat I was on, USS Asheville SSN-758, was in drydock the whole time.) – and according to the USCG I have no sea time.
Well, I don’t have the Sea Service transcript from the Navy yet to give to the USCG. I’m waiting for them to send it. It actually looks like my request got cut off; I did it online, and in the “Reason for request” field, I should have just typed “sea service transcript” but instead I typed “in addition to the DD-214, I also need my Sea Service Transcript, for the purpose of giving it to the Coast Guard in order to get an MMC.” and in the confirmation email, it looked like everything after “in addition to the DD-214” was cut off. Hopefully that’s just a bug in the system for email confirmation…we’ll see. But lesson learned…next time write literally JUST “sea service transcript”.
ok so, if Ordinary Seaman or Wiper Advancement Program is not available in MSC, how would you do it in private industry? My understanding is that you want to get passport, TWIC, MMC, then go take a course for STCW such as the one at Cal Maritime in Vallejo ($1100) or the one at Training Resources Ltd in San Diego ($900 for just the STCW classes), and then join the union, and see if they have any slots for OS. Is that correct? There is a union hall in San Francisco, I can get there on the train (I live in Silicon Valley).
I have no problem going to sea as an OS at union rates. That would be better than my current job. But I don’t have the $1100 for the STCW and I don’t really have the money for the passport and twic and mmc…I would have to get passport, wait two paychecks, get twic, etc. Frustrating…I’m interested in doing this stuff, but if I had a good enough job that I could pay for all that, I would probably stay at that job, right?[/QUOTE]
You are seriously overcomplicating this. You don’t need STCW BST, you don’t need a passport, and you don’t need to join any union.
Get your TWIC, get your MMC, then find an OS job. Maybe the job you find will require to join a union like IBU but don’t join anything until you find a job.