While I was at MSC as a 3rd on an Ammo laden AKE overseas my net pay was $4500 per 2 weeks. That’s with putting 10% into a TSP and somewhere around 30 hours OT.
Guys working stateside could pull even more with night diff…though I think rules on that have changed and limit how much night diff OT you can make now.
[QUOTE=Mike23;167761]That can’t be 3rd mate pay for 2 weeks… i mean that is a check for 2 weeks but… i know plenty of 3rd Mates and the ones i know normally GROSS 4500-6000 and they typically don’t get that much OT because they are on watch… and the 3rd mates and i that i know have been on AOE/LCC/AKE and those are what MSC call premium ships. as long as you stay away from tankers your good…the pay is really bad on tankers or should i say you have to work alot of OT hours just to get close to making what you get on a premium ship without that much OT…[/QUOTE]
I was looking over my Boatswain’s mates shoulder while he was checkin his Earning Statement. It was $6200 and change for a two week period. My jaws dropped. As entry level that was twice my pay plus $400 ($2700) for the same 2 week period. I don’t know what a Boatswain mates earns, but he wasn’t all that happy about what he saw. Apparently, according to him, tankers suck for pay. I have to agree. But I’m entry level…I expect my pay to suck.
I had no sailing experience at the time I applied, but I did have practical work experience that applied to a lot of what is done on vessels. I wonder what those 20 OSs had that I didn’t.
Sailing with those same OS class mates now as they try to obtain their ratings (RFPNW). Babes in the woods at first. Now they are turning out to be decent seaman.
This is where I think I got the better end of the draw, going through the SIU program versus entry-level via MSC. I already have my RFPNW!
[QUOTE=anrima;167288]The most important part of the application process is your KSAs. You need to learn how to write your essays in a way that they hit the topics MSC is looking for in hiring. I’d recommend you read the duties section of the announcement and utilize those duties in addressing your skills in your KSAs.[/QUOTE]
As a Second Mate, I once sat-in on an A/B promotion board. We were given the list of KSAs we were supposed to evaluate, and also a couple of other things that involved job experience that we were [I]also[/I] supposed to evaluate for. In effect, they were additional KSAs. After reading application packages that thoroughly covered the advertised KSAs, and having to ‘downgrade’ promising candidates that didn’t mention any of the ‘additional’ items, I asked the Head Bureaucrat Ashore why weren’t the additional items made known, so that these guys could properly document their experience. His answer: “They’d just lie about it, if we let them know we were looking for those things.” So, you’re being evaluated on the [I]published[/I] KSAs, and also a totally different set of [I]super-secret KSAs[/I], that you’d probably only document by chance.
I was thoroughly disillusioned with the promotion process, after this.
[QUOTE=ScribblerF;167871]
I was thoroughly disillusioned with the promotion process, after this.[/QUOTE]
What are the secret additional KSA’s?
When I applied in 2007, it was by written (word processed) KSAs and I worked on them every day for weeks. I received a job offer soon after submitting my package.
Now you’ve got me wondering.
It’s all politics. Those who know your name and like you will rate your KSA better then an otherwise identical stranger. Human nature.
Best way to promote is to ship out on as many ships as you can to meet as many people as you can. That way you increase your odds that someone you know will be on that board. Homesteading is bad for promotions.
[QUOTE=ScribblerF;167871]As a Second Mate, I once sat-in on an A/B promotion board. We were given the list of KSAs we were supposed to evaluate, and also a couple of other things that involved job experience that we were [I]also[/I] supposed to evaluate for. In effect, they were additional KSAs. After reading application packages that thoroughly covered the advertised KSAs, and having to ‘downgrade’ promising candidates that didn’t mention any of the ‘additional’ items, I asked the Head Bureaucrat Ashore why weren’t the additional items made known, so that these guys could properly document their experience. His answer: “They’d just lie about it, if we let them know we were looking for those things.” So, you’re being evaluated on the [I]published[/I] KSAs, and also a totally different set of [I]super-secret KSAs[/I], that you’d probably only document by chance.
I was thoroughly disillusioned with the promotion process, after this.[/QUOTE]
Well that only makes it all the more important I attain my AB ticket. Clearly both the application and promotion process really smells foul…
Can anybody give me a primer on what MSC considers a good KSA? I’ve done quite a bit of searching and it seems to be the world’s best-kept secret…
I’ve thought about it what will likely get an OS upgraded to AB at MSC once he has RFPNW. If you haven’t already done the AB Training at the Fire School either get the Ch Mate to send you as soon as you LPI or put in a request for training as soon as you get to the Pool.
On your off watch time: request to work overtime with the deck crew. Find a knowledgeable AB and learn from him. Learn basic rope work. Assist with the docking crew, learn the ropes and be active. Step forward and learn. Know your Fire, Lifeboat and DC duties and show it. Be competent and confident figure out how to put that in but not sound like as ass. Earn and then request recommendation letters from ship’s officers.
Put the above in your KSAs in detail.
[QUOTE=civmar;167893]I’ve thought about it what will likely get an OS upgraded to AB at MSC once he has RFPNW. If you haven’t already done the AB Training at the Fire School either get the Ch Mate to send you as soon as you LPI or put in a request for training as soon as you get to the Pool.
On your off watch time: request to work overtime with the deck crew. Find a knowledgeable AB and learn from him. Learn basic rope work. Assist with the docking crew, learn the ropes and be active. Step forward and learn. Know your Fire, Lifeboat and DC duties and show it. Be competent and confident figure out how to put that in but not sound like as ass. Earn and then request recommendation letters from ship’s officers.
Put the above in your KSAs in detail.[/QUOTE]
What about for someone who’s never worked for MSC is trying to apply? What do they put into their KSAs? What’s the format (essay, bullet-point list)? How long?
an example of a KSA a/b to mate
KSA 5 / Knowledge of cargo operations including those involving dry stores, munitions, petroleum products and HELO Operations (VERTREP)
During 5 years on MSC contract vessels and since joining MSC, transfered fuel in port and during UNREP operations. While on the USNS … deck I was assigned to either the fuel or cargo winch booths as an operator. Outside of UNREP, I have stood manifold watches during 25-30 ship and 4 barge bunkering evolutions. This included preparing stations with connecting/dis-connecting flanges, hose couplings, bonding cables and communications. I have secured hoses, lifelines, scuppers, oil spill response gear. Reviewed and completed checklists, attended pre-bunkering and oil spill response briefs, one pre-transfer conference where items discussed were products and sequence of transfer, transfer rates, stations used, emergency and shutdown procedures. Have transferred refined fuels; JP-5, DFM, #1 and #2 diesel and Mogas. Have used the steel pipe mechanical loading arms with swivel joints that are used at shoreside terminals.
I have taken innage and ullage readings, as well as field samples for the Chief Engineer. Aware of red “Bravo”
flag, “no smoking, no open light, no visitors” signs. Am aware that all vessels’ moorings must be secured, connections free of leaks, emergency equipment in place and no repair work allowed immediately prior to and while transfering in port.
Have stowed, secured, and concealed a Mogas tank on deck. Stowed numerous cleaners, thinners, paint cans and containerized acids in appropriate lockers.
With UNREPS, have knowledge in receiving ships approach procedures, preferred distance between ships, line throwing devices, messengers, phone lines, flags, light and hand signals, radios, and night lighting used on the rigs. Have been the signalman, phone talker, line handler, rigged the messenger, and operated fork lift. I have mounted the gullwing, surf, triple swivel hook, a strongback beam and forklift adapter. Have transferred fresh, frozen, dry stores, mail, Freon, oxygen, and acetylene tanks. I have sent JP5 and DFM in single and double probe fuel rigs. I have assisted in bolting a cargo drop reel to a trolley, tested its operation, and sent/received loads to ships that did not have a sliding padeye.
With Boatswains Mates have changed over 40 7” fueling hoses, using silicone grease on the rubber O-ring gasket, then fastening the male and female couplings with a split band. Assembled both male and female couplings on a new hose and removed couplings from spent hoses. Have hydrostatically tested DFM & JP5 hoses, drained the fuel and water mix into the oily waste tank from the fuel probe using the probe retracting tool. While assisting Boatswain Mates, discovered worn links and anchor pin shackles requiring replacement. Changed the half inch wire on all 3 saddle winches, at three stations.
Because of Alaska’s harsh environment, it is now a regionally inculcated habit to inspect gear for defects and/or wear in rigging, hardware, lines and listen for any abnormal sounds from equipment.
Pre-MSC had regularly replaced wire on winches, and three times assisted shipyard contractors in spooling wire onto new 40 ton cranes. Shared responsibilities with relief Bosun in slushing crane wires. During this week-long evolution with AB’s aloft, mandated and directed procedure in strict accordance with Maersk Line, Ltd.’s safety requirements. Daily broke down, checked, stowed rigging and made ready to stage and set-up the following day.
Have prepared stations for an MSC UNREP, with very knowledgeable Boatswain’s Mates instructing in proper procedure and relating applicable hazards. Have operated the fuel and cargo winch booths during 35-40 UNREPS in fair and inclement weather experiencing two emergency breakaways.
Have learned efficient techniques of moving palletized cargo. Have worked slings on the pier and on deck. Have stowed pallets ready for delivering the maximum amount of cargo in a minimum amount of time. As a forklift operator, am alert to my surroundings, efficient, and always use the parking brake, wheel chocks, and horn at required junctures.
Safety is priority in every evolution and involved personnel should be reminded regularly in the inherent dangers associated with those evolutions.
Under supervision, have asked team members to warn each other of danger. Per evolution, discussed staying clear, facing the rig, a suspended load, lines being payed out and staying out of the bight of a line. Getting between a load and any crush point and wearing protective gear.
As an operator in the winch booth, concentration with no distractions is my preference. My reaction in two critical emergency breakaways were accurate due to preparation thru drills. My first USNS … evaluation attests to my winch booth operating abilities.
I have trained in Explosive Cargo Handling & Stowage at NWS-Earle. Know the slings, beams, pallets, trucks used for transferring weapons and ammunition. Have become familiar with technical manual TW023-AB-WHS-010 for proper handling and stowage of ammo on Military Sealift Command ships. I have not been assigned to an ammo ship so far, and have only transferred Navy Dive detonation and security munitions while on the … I have also operated ships’ 40 ton McGregor Cranes for a week unloading 20’ ammo containers while downloading a Maersk Line, Ltd. 950’ containerized ammo ship LTC John U.D.Page in 2009.
Have used the aluminum stanchions, overhead and deck channels, chain tie downs, tomming straps, wedges, dunnage
and pen boards. Am able to efficiently transfer, stow, block, brace, and shore ammunition and dry cargo in the cargo holds.
Since joining USNS …have loaded and stowed stator anchors, dive tanks, 6000lb. hydraulic pullers, 1¾” wire for de-beaching gear, anchor chain, ROV’s, command modules, reels, tensioners, heavy lift rope, compressors, hoses, welding, patching material, rigid hulled inflatable boats and a utility work boat. Have used the 40 ton boom to move hatch covers, retrieve mooring bouys, anchors and load heavy gear to and from a pier.
Have operated USNS …'s ALMON A. JOHNSON tow winches, tow pins, norman pins, a 5 ton Appleton crane, RHIB crane, both tow deck cranes, workboat gravity davit, and anchor windlass. Have rigged the tow deck for tows astern and alongside, and have done two and three point moorings plus recovery of aircraft, torpedos and remote operated targets.
I have participated in over 40 NAVY Helo Training-at-Sea Operations while in Guam on contract ships. And regular VERTREP while assigned to USNS … during a 7 month period, while deployed and as duty oiler. Am formally trained in and have been the Landing Signalman Enlisted (LSE), 10-12 times; was chocks and chains person, hooked the pole pendant, netted, weighed, and staged cargo on the flight deck. I was a nozzle man, foam hose and hot suit man while on the Flight Deck Fire Party, and am familiar with the halligan tool and rescue knife.
I have a working knowledge of the operation, maintenance, and upkeep of the MK1 Life Vest. Was responsible for the USNS … aviation locker and the flight deck aviation crash locker. I kept flight deck vests, jerseys, helmets, chain tie downs, perimeter nets, and flight deck markings maintained. I also kept the flight deck perimeter drains open and have participated in FOD walk downs on numerous occasions. For accurate, expedient reference, I have incorporated a new binder system wherein crewmembers may access the Aviation Equipment List, current gear orders, crash tool roll equipment list, and results of past inspections. Have also labeled all containers of spare equipment. Both lockers were kept clutter free, streamlined, orderly, and ready for quick response. I also used the Haystack program to locate NSN and stock numbers to order aviation equipment. A lot of writing considering there are usually 5 KSA 's.
seacomber,
Thanks for that extensive post! It looks like they’re looking for essays. No wonder I didn’t get picked for OSAP or Any Entry Level.
as you can see MSC has plenty for you to do, I have walked a few people thru the hiring process, by encouragement mainly as some have been turned away once or twice before getting an offer for employment.
[QUOTE=seacomber;167911]as you can see MSC has plenty for you to do, I have walked a few people thru the hiring process, by encouragement mainly as some have been turned away once or twice before getting an offer for employment.[/QUOTE]
Well, I’ll be busy in the meantime with my current sailing job. I guess the key is to apply early and often.
apply during the job announcement opening dates only, you can take your KSA’s in for a review with an appointment scheduled a well before the closing date.
[QUOTE=seacomber;167920]apply during the job announcement opening dates only, you can take your KSA’s in for a review with an appointment scheduled a well before the closing date.[/QUOTE]
Where would I take them into?
marine employment division / bldg sp 64 / 471 east c street / Norfolk. Call Civmar Support Center and request an appointment.
[QUOTE=seacomber;167945]marine employment division / bldg sp 64 / 471 east c street / Norfolk. Call Civmar Support Center and request an appointment.[/QUOTE]
Hmm… I just might pay them a visit! I’ll be a short drive away from Norfolk early next year, anyway.
have been advised prior to submitting KSA’s to stay within the advertised items to demonstrate that I could properly understand and then follow instruction. This advise came after a proof read with an ashore evaluator who spent a good amount of time explaining the board process and how they strive to be “fair”… It sounded good, but I didn’t buy it completely
What the hell is a KSA and what does it have to do with chipping paint, working lines, and sweeping the floor?
[QUOTE=Bayrunner;168014]What the hell is a KSA and what does it have to do with chipping paint, working lines, and sweeping the floor?[/QUOTE]
Knowledge, Skills and Abilities. It’s what you aquire (and document) so you don’t have to chip, paint, sweep etc.
