If someone is looking for opportunities in the business worl[quote=“tugsailor, post:20, topic:57963”]
Yale is offering a mostly online RN program. It has some on campus requirements and internships in hospitals. It’s not cheap, but a degree from Yale is quite valuable, and so is an RN.
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An RN is an RN, that’s like asking which refinery your gas came from…Valero or bp? doesn’t matter. A degree from yale is valuable. An online nursing degree from there, less so. Sounds like a money grab to me.
If you Google “community college rn program” you would find there are more than a few. I would add these are not easy programs. My Daughter In-Law studied her ass off and passed the State RN license exam the first go around.
Seadog, I know the feeling. There are community colleges with quite a few Xray tech, Mammo, and Ultrasound courses. They came later as my wife became certified in all three many moons ago… She started at the hospitals training as a young bride, thankfully the local college began offering the courses corresponding with the health care units in the area. Wasn’t easier studying, just more accessible. Thank goodness we are both retired during this covid shit. As is my dear neighbor, a very dedicated and senior RN… That job is tough compared to driving boats.
I used this method long before online classes. In order to fund my education, I split my time going to sea as an OS and attending Community College, State University, and the extension courses via US Mail. I was able to take my English Literature class at sea via Univ of Wisconsin-Extension. I was able to coordinate with the Professor so that the majority of the readings were sea going novels. She accepted, Typee, Sea Wolf, Mutiny on the Bounty, and even Steaming to Bamboola. My work and her critiques were sent / rcvd via the vessel’s mail pouch, all hand written. Overall, it took 3 years to acquire the credit load but I was able to enter the Academy as a sophomore with enough money to pay for the first two years cash and only took a loan for my last year. This was a well coordinated endeavor with the Academy. It wasn’t the most ideal or quickest path but if worked for my particular circumstance. With today’s online courses I think it would be all the easier to accumulate credits towards the intended degree. I recently took 3 Zoom style professional courses for license renewal and found them streamline and enjoyed taking them from home.
If this was promoted in high schools instead of “the college experience” there would be a let less student loan debt and a lot more wealth amongst young people. No need to spend the $50,000 a year of some schools (or $30k+ at somewhere like MMA) to get Gen Ed classes when you can work through at least a couple semesters at home in mom and dads house. Entering college right now as 18 year old, especially consider the current COVID situation, it would be foolish not to take advantage of any opportunity to earn credits.
Harvard is currently offering 10 free online courses. Of particular interest to mariners is a weather course.
No matter how you acquire knowledge and skills, it’s pretty easy to get a year of college credit for it at most public colleges through the CLEP testing program.
For people who already have a college degree, there are many graduate certificate online programs.
The “College Experience” has been changing for a decade. Covid may change it for good. There are two excellent books that both were written pre-Covid and now seem all the more relevant.
1-College (Un)Bound- by Jeffrey J. Selingo
2-Is College Worth It? by former Sec of Education- William Bennett
If you are a high school student looking at colleges or a parent of the same; these two books have important insights and offer an alternative perspective,.
I think it is unfortunate that fewer and fewer mariners take the hawse pipe path. True enough the course work is time consuming and expensive these days, but the return on investment is large and the course work is relevant. The course work is certainly more relevant than the out of date USCG exams. Certainly the ROI of a hawse pipe path to Mate is far better than a PoliSci Degree from a pricey University,
Choosing a practical major is important. I see so many young people make the mistake of picking worthless majors that have no value in the job market, or in life.
An Ivy League or other top school degree is a good investment, and these schools often provide as much financial aid as necessary which makes them affordable.
However, choosing an expensive 2nd or 3rd or 4th tier private school with a small endowment and limited financial aid over a good state university makes no sense at all. Particularly, as many of these schools will not survive much longer.
A good major at a good state university is valuable and it’s affordable.
Some of the most cost effective and valuable majors are the ones that provide training for a specific career and licensing with good job demand: maritime (especially engineering), nursing, physical therapy, pharmacy, accounting, etc.
Hawespipe is dying, most people recognize that. You can get a degree and an unlimited license for the same or less money than taking classes at some sea schools while climbing the pipe, and it takes way less time. Yes, if you hawespipe you can earn money at the same time you’re advancing towards a license, but you’re competing with academy grads that have licenses, degrees, connections and a network. There’s other advantages too. I think this has been discussed to death with the hawespipers touting the virtues of hawespiping and the academy grads saying the same thing about their respective academy. In the end, we all take the same test.
No secret that hawespiping is on the decline. Saddened by that. It was my path and enjoyed it. The expense is enormous nowadays to obtain a decent license, Son was offered financial help from many “Upper Echelon” universities. We visited quite a few universities, including Navy, West Point and some Ivy league . He chose USMMA to get a great degree and play football. Hawespiping is declining breed, but damn good sailors if you can survive it . They got their hands dirty on the way up. You are only as good as your crew. Mine were hand picked, thankfully the company I worked for allowed that. With all the rules and regulations now, the deck is stacked against hawespipers. Am especially proud of my last engineer that started as an OS from Texas and fought his way to the top. I saw talent wasted being a new hire tankerman and stole him off a rig many years ago midstream in New Orleans. …Did I piss some people off? Hell yea. He is still working as chief for the last 20-or so years and a nice salary. We are friends to this day. It’s a shame how hard and expensive for the little guy trying to move up these days, whether deck or engine. You almost have to go the Academy route, wherever that may be.,
SeaEagle-Congrads on your son’s acceptance to KP. Graduating from KP, the possibilities are endless. Their alumni network challenge the Ivy’s. I tried to get my daughter interested but she is quite clear after watching me pack a sea bag over and over it is not for her,
Likewise I feel it is unfortunate that the hawsepipe path is in steep decline. Granted it is tougher than decades ago, but it is not impossible and still worth considering. MITAGS, SIU, AMO, and other upgrade schools all have programs that a determined candidate can complete for far less investment than a 4 yr degree (with a low ROI). The ability to have an income along the way while getting hands on experience is a tremendous asset. I have helped a couple of young people get a start in the industry and have enjoyed watching them do tremendously well, Likewise, given the Foodie Movement in the USA the Steward’s Dept is a great option for aspiring culinary artists. I have seen crew go from Steward’s Assistant to Chief Steward in less than 5 years. To go from minimum wage to 10 grand or more per month in that time frame is impressive. Unless your a head chef in a top tier restaurant you are not touching that sort of salary. Recently I have sailed with some true restaurant chefs that have made this transition. It was a win-win. Unfortunately the restaurant biz is a party culture and passing a periodic drug test or abiding to an alcohol policy is not what many of these cooks have in mind. The guys I sailed with put the plug in the jug years ago. Given the state of restaurants during COVID perhaps more Chef’s might consider this option. I continue to urge young people that don’t fall into the traditional 4 yr degree modality to give a seafaring life a shot while figuring it out,
Given the declining number of seagoing jobs, and that the academies continue to graduate too many new entrants every year, the preference of HR people for college grads, etc., etc., hawespiping has become increasing a remnant of the past, like sailing ships.
This isn’t true unless you want to get into the commercial shipping business. The KP network isnt great outside of that, other than people here or there. most of the state universities networks are probably stronger.
I didn’t attend KP but have known many grads. I noted early on that in my seafaring career that given the pool of talent they draw from there were relatively few KP mariners in the higher ranks on the ships. That is because the opportunities and connections are vast ashore. It is well established KP is selective, they draft high, and the rigors and demand of that college experience in no joke. This is attractive to business of all types. Over the years the KP cadets and grads I have sailed with are clear they are not intending to make a life of going to sea and move ashore in a wide variety of endeavors.
A Standard and Poor’s report on the education of America’s senior business managers, places the U.S. Merchant Marine Academy 18th in the nation among the top 550 colleges and universities producing Presidents, Vice Presidents and Directors of U.S. companies, in proportion to numbers of graduates.