Letter sent to Trump administration urges support of U.S.-flag vessels

It was initiated by the US and killed by the US:
http://www.maritimelogistics.co/the-beginning-and-the-end-of-the-unctad-code-of-conduct-liner-shipping/
As of 2008 it was effectively dead:

I wasn’t going to add anything more here, after your bad mannered post earlier, but since you so kindly (for you) invited me to do so, how could I decline?

First of all; I don’t have any reasons to want US Mariners, USMM or anything else US any ill, nor do I bear any grouches, or suffer any inferiority complexes because of some incident(s) in the past.

I have worked for, or with, dozens of American companies and with thousands of Americans of all stripes (as well as other nationalities) in my 40+ year career in the Offshore Marine business worldwide. In my line of work as Freelance Marine Consultant/Surveyor/Adviser/Manager, or as Rigmover/Towmaster/Loadmaster, nationality is NOT the main criteria for judging anything or anybody.

Let me just restate; nationality is NOT a maritime qualification, nor do I believe that any one nationality (Norwegian or American incl.) has any advantage over others in their seamanship ability.

As to the idea that the US, or anybody, could or should be able to dictate how world trade and international shipping is conducted. That is the business of WTO and IMO to determine, after a consensus between involved nations. The days when the Europeans and Americans could dictate is long gone.

Today China is the world’s largest trading nation, with India being the fastest growing major economy, with several other developing countries also catching up and want a say so in how world trade, commerce and shipping is conducted.

Besides; which major trading nation has a fleet capable of carrying even 50% of their trade on ships under their own flag, manned by their own nationals, not to mention built at national yards? China would be the one that come closes. but they do not have any intention to do so by unilateral decree. (In free competition, yes they would like to)

As to whether there are any Norwegians that harbour ideas similar to yours when it come to who should man the ships under Norwegian flag? Oh yes there are plenty, but it is very little realistic that it could ever be the case again. Would the same people accept ITF wages to compete with East Europeans and Filipinos? No they would not, nor is anybody asking them to. Even many ships in coastal trade are flying foreign flag, or are NIS registered and manned by mostly foreigners. (Norway does not have a cabotage law) Only vessels under NOR flag have some protection for Norwegians, or those carrying passengers in national waters but, since Norway is member of EEA, thus associated with EU, there are freedom of travel and labour for EU nationals. So EU nationals with the necessary qualifications according to STCW can get jobs on NOR flag ships at Norwegian wages, paying Norwegian tax and enjoying Norwegian benefits.

As to the need for ships and seafarers in case of war? Well, if there is a war between major power, like US, Russia or China, it would probably be over before you could get either the ships or the seafarers out of mothballs. The possibility that anybody would start such a war minimal. Since neither Putin or Xi Jiangpeng are suicidal, I don’t see them trying

For the proxy wars, war against terror and drugs, or whatever, the need for transportation can be covered by commercial shipping a lot cheaper, safer and more efficiently then to keep a fleet of old, inefficient and obsolete ships in semi-cold layup.
VLGCs and VLCCs have little strategic importance in that respect.

As I have said before, the only way to keep a viable national fleet is to keep them active. (The same goes for seafarers)
That can only be done by being commercially competitive in world trade.Look at how that can be done, not by trying to force shippers to pay a premium for the privilege of shipping their commodities on your ships.

OK, now back to you, but please try to keep it civilised this time.

The level playing field you espouse cannot be created with the WTO or ITF for the very reasons that one) shipowners have many ways to circumvent the conventions and two) there is a global pool of labor who would rather work for less that what some convention says they “should” earn.with a tilted playing surface, those who pay low make it pretty dammed tough to stay in the game for high wage earners…UNLESS…

governments in those high wage provinces (read USA) take initiative on a national level to create demand for high wage workers. They do this through cabotage and cargo preference laws. Your belief such laws are anathema in US culture is WRONG! The US really only started to give away the store in 1980 when Ronald Raygun became president. I have suffered the result now for 4 decades but there is no good reason another president one day won’t start to set things back to where the US flag fleet is not what it is today. It won’t be the assclown who is pretending to be leading this nation but at least Reps Garamedi and Wicker are trying here.

Now please stay the FUCK out a topic that doesn’t concern you…and I still say you are a miserable cocksucker for wading in to this thread in the first place.

Cheers…

Are you sure you’re not just a miserable fucker to work with?

Btw, all the Mickey Mouse ship registries are run by Americans. So you are to blame that world shipping is fucked.

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You obviously are unable to have a civilised conversation, or to understand simple facts.

I presume that is inevitable if you spend your whole life circling around in a gulf in the north and another in the south of the same country, while working with like minded people, with no exposure to the world outside.
Oh I forgot, with the odd trip to another gulf, but still with the same people around you.

You should get out more, see different things and places and meet people with different backgrounds and experiences.
Maybe you could learn something from that. (Like manners)

Boo hoo…I am sure you realize that I lose sleep at night knowing you don’t like my manners. In fact, I don’t care much for them myself!

However, as far as my feelings toward you go, you don’t warrant any genteel treatment from me. You repeatedly insert yourself into topics which you (or Norway) has not one iota of standing. I consider your entering this thread with your IMHO that the USA is purely a open free market nation as not accurate in the least. All big economies have some form of protectionism for their industries (including Norway’s) and you have no right whatsoever to say that the proposed legislation to reserve exports of US produced gas and oil for US flag vessels is wrong. Norway is not an importer of US energy so you have no dog in this fight so again I ask you to stay out of it and all others where you have no vested interest. You are disrespecting all of us who do! Please cease and desist from here on out.

And that also goes for your yappy poodledog Kraken too!

The ships built by GD Quincy (10) and Newport News (3) were good ships. The ones built by Avondale never made it out of the gate. The 3 LNG tankers Avondale attempted to build for El Paso in 1979 never sailed as LNG tankers as the containment membranes were found to have cracks. El Paso refused acceptance.

It wasn’t a complete loss as the Avondale ships were later converted to OBO’s and one later to a FSO. Not exactly a bargain at $100 million each in 1979.

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and nothing gives me greater pleasure than for me to tell you to…

image

You have simple pleasures.

so what if I do? I also find it most enjoyable to scoop up slugs with my shovel and toss them into the road then watch until a big truck flattens them!

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Maybe g.captain shop could stock some of these, only with “Truck Driver” being replaced with “Mariner”??:


Should be a good market for it.

You’re right, there SHOULD be. That’s because the typical user of this forum has the most to lose if your hybrid globalist/communist/socialist vision becomes reality.

Tell you what, place an order in your favorite Chinese/Burmese/Shthole-istan sweatshop for t shirts with YOUR mantra of “skilled labor is to be replaced, cheap labor is good enough” and see which one sells better. Problem is, the people who would be for that policy can’t afford to buy the shirts they work 16 hours a day to make.

The characterization of you and labels applied by @c.captain earlier in this thread and in many others are spot on.

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Literally every thread is going to be about Norwegian superiority. Even though this one is about U.S. flag shipping we are talking about Norway.

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we sure don’t need to name any names here but only just look at the guilty party and whistle

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he looks like Paul Phucking Watson for Christ’s sake…if a man could have a more arrogant pose, I’d like to see it.

Maybe you should look in the mirror, or did you have a ghostwriter making post no.18?
I must admit that my avatar picture is not very flattering and my attire is not suitable for the board room.
But who cares, it is very suitable for crab fishing.

BAH! you are a pest SIR and have infected this forum with personal opinions which I say you have no right to. Matter maritime concerning the USA are NOT something which YOU have any personal standing and YOU should respect those of us who do have standing like me. I resent your weighing in on topics such as this saying that the US government is not right to have any trade setasides for US flagged ships. How are YOU effected by this proposal? How are YOU harmed if it were to be enacted? What dog do YOU have in this fight?

I say that for forum harmony, YOU should stay the FUCK out of these discussions and not inject your anti US opinions but YOU can’t do that because you feel YOU have a need to and relish that these opinions of yours will anger and incense men like me who do have a dog in the fight.

let me finish by saying that I am hardly alone in these feelings towards YOU! just look at how my posts calling YOU out get many likes from my fellow US merchant mariners. We all resent YOU and YOUR anti USA opinions. CEASE!

Let’s get back to talking about US policy changes that might improve the US maritime industry and contribute to a secure and strong US economy.

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Once again, he is a troll, and a keyboard commando, just ignore him

The two of you just prove the subject of another thread here

If you cannot tolerate that other people have different opinion from yours, even if they happen to be of a different nationality to you, YOU have a problem.

Unfortunately it is a problem you share with far too many people these days.

and pray tell me how a Norwegian has any standing in any way to inject opinion on US maritime legislation and policy? YOU hate the Jones Act! YOU hate how I decry foreign vessels working on the US outer continental shelf even though existing legislation is supposed to reserve that work for at least US citizens! Now, YOU hate how two Congressmen in the US propose legislation to reserve a percentage of energy exports for US ships! Do you hold a US issued merchant mariner’s document? NO, YOU DO NOT YET YOU CAN’T RESIST TELLING US THAT WE ARE WRONG TO WANT PROTECTION!

I am not going to equivocate here…I resent the HELL out of YOU being involved in these discussions!

STOP! CEASE! ENOUGH!