I am wondering if sailing as OICNW on an unlimited tonnage OSV would qualify you directly for Master Inland AGT without any test modules. The way I see it is if you were the only other “Master licensed” officer to cover the unlimited OSV, then you technically sailed as Chief Mate and should qualify just as you would having sailed as an Unlimited Chief Mate Oceans submitting for Unlimited Master Oceans. Anyone have any experience in this?
talk about some crafty loop-hole conjecture!
I simply cannot wait to see what happens to this thread…
Just go take the test. It’s no big deal.
To be honest, I know a couple guys who have used the Chief Mate time when sailing as “3rd Captain” to upgrade to Master AGT. Since you have not satisfied the exam requirements for the actual Chief Mate License, you will be required to take the exam.
The benefit is that you will go from your current license and “skip” the CM license and 1 year of sea-time that is required to have the auto upgrade to U/M and will get the Master AGT. Either way, you will still be taking the exam.
Many have tried the route that you are shooting for but every single person I know has been required to meet the requirements of examinations.
PS. This may be the first useful post I have ever laid upon this forum…
No, it doesn’t.
Wrong. You could be the only other person onboard with a Master license and be sailing as an AB, the license doesn’t magically make you the Chief Mate. The only way to “technically sail as Chief Mate” is to sail as Chief Mate.
Wrong. To get a Chief Mate Unlimited Oceans you take the Master Unlimited Oceans exam, so it’s just a sea time upgrade. Since you haven’t taken the Master Unlimited Inland exam, you can’t get out of it.
Unless they’ve changed the exam in the last five years it’s a really easy five modules. I started Monday morning and was done well before lunch on Tuesday (IIRC, around 10 am), and that included having to retake rules because I tried to take it cold. Why do you want that license anyway?
So he can scam some loophole to go from master - inland to master - oceans?
It would take two years(24 months) “sailing on the license” to do so, whereas he only needs 12 months as Chief Mate. He would also still need to take the whole Master Unlimited exam, do all the assessments, and take all the classes.
Nine modules for the Ch Mate/Master Unlimited (Oceans). Or were you talking about the inland license being five?
He’s partially correct. See the definition of “chief mate” in 46 CFR 10.107:
Chief mate means the deck officer next in rank to the master and upon whom the command of the vessel will fall in the event of incapacity of the master.
But, being the Master doesn’t meet that definition for chief mate, so the Master cannot be a “chief mate” and strict application of would mean it doesn’t meet the requirements for service as Chief Mate. And in your example, if you are serving as AB but hold a license, you are not a “deck officer” on that vessel, and also could not be the “chief mate” even if there are no mates on the vessel.
But you are right as to the endorsement he asked about, Master Unlimited Inland. There is no provision to qualify for this endorsement using chief mate service in 46 CFR 11.435. So the regulatory definition of a chief mate doesn’t apply. It is also likely that the requirement for inland or Great Lakes service will be strictly applied, i.e. time on near coastal or oceans won’t count.
This is correct for Master Unlimited Oceans or near coastal. You only “avoid” the exam if you are upgrading from a license as Chief Mate Unlimited. Not serving as a “chief mate” , but holding the license. See 46 CFR 11.903( c)(1). An exam is also required for Master Unlimited Inland regardless of what you already hold, see 46 CFR 11.903(a)(1).
Master Unlimited Inland (the license he asked about) is five modules.
I’m familiar with the definition of Chief Mate and it doesn’t make him “partially correct”.
Being the only other person onboard with a Master license doesn’t automatically make him Chief Mate (these boats usually have at least a Master and 3 “Mates” all working 12 hour watches). He could be the third mate and hold a Master license while the actual Chief Mate only holds a mate license. So, as I said before, the only way to “technically sail as Chief Mate” is to sail as Chief Mate.
But you might be less familiar with “tact.” As I am posting under my own name, and until the new gCaptain format, identifying my employer and work contact info, I am perhaps more inclined to exercise professional courtesy and be less confrontational. I usually don’t begin my posts with “Jane, you ignorant slut…” and usually try not to call out anything less than blatant errors. There’s a good chance that if I responded to a post by calling someone an omadhaun, it would have unpleasant work consequences.
how is that? but ok
It’s pretty comical that people seem to think its a “scam” or “loophole”, but have no issue saying I should just take the very easy 5 module test that closely mimics the license exam for 3rd Mate Unlimited Oceans which I’ve already taken coupled with 1600 Ton Master Oceans which I took when advancing to 2nd Mate Unlimited Oceans. Why take the same test twice? Sure I could study and take it and forgive me for such an insane question just trying to see if anyone has had any success with talking to an evaluator about this topic. Thank you @jdcavo for throwing in the CFR about the exam requirements I’ve never actually seen that. Figured i would get blasted on here from the couch captains but at least i pulled away some useful information.
why’s that you don’t know either?
It sounds like you didn’t take the actual 1,600 ton master exam but took the crossover exam from 2nd mate.