While I guess you could call that an OSV, we would refer to that as a sub sea construction vessel and all I know of like that follow an unlimited style COI/manning style. Just like Island Enforcer, ect. So what’s your concern again?
With the limited tonnage mate test standards upped top the save level as 2m I’m not sure why the boat companies down here care that much. The big companies have a lot of guys sitting on a chief mate license waiting for cm time to upgrade. I guess they just worry that most of the older and experienced operators won’t want to take the cm/m exam but they should just go ahead and build unlimited vessels, they have the manpower for them already.
But the 6,000 is for OSV’s only…
Your point is what?
Mine was in terms of difficulty to get, the only thing harder about getting the cm/m is the exam. So why do they need another exemption? They have the manpower, just make them upgrade.
[QUOTE=tugsailor;75946]
The concept of TOAR was good because unlimited license mariners without towing experience are absolutely NOT qualified to runs tugs. However, the USCG’s implementation of TOAR is a a joke.
The USCG should probably come up with something similar to TOAR for OSVs to prevent unlimited license holders without OSV experience from becoming instant OSV masters, but the USCG needs to do a much better job of implementing it.[/QUOTE]
Are they ever going to revamp the TOAR? That program is a mess. I wish they would go to a different method of assessing competency than an onboard assessment by a DE. I would rather see retesting on the subject matter covered on the toar along with a simulator section to demonstrate boat handling skills.
There also needs to be some utility with the apprentice mate’s license. I don’t know what the limits of the increase in responsibility should be, but it disincentivizes mariners from becoming an apprentice mate when they have to go through the trouble and expense of school and testing only to get a license that doesn’t really add value. As a result, a mariner spends a lot of money to get a license that doesn’t secure him higher wages because he is of not greater utility to the company.
Your statement inferred that they were an equivalent license, they are two different animals. The 6,000 being limited to a specified class of vessel, OSV’s. It was a very simple process to obtain the Master 6,000, agreed. Fortunately, I won’t be looking at the CM/M exam, I can cross over to Master NC from Great Lakes Master AGT.
That is why you need to read what I quoted, and thus was replying to, to put it in context. Of course they are different, one is limited to 6000 tons and OSVs…
You can cross over to master nc of what tonnage from master great lakes agt?
Unlimited, of course
I see no mention of that in 46 CFR. Master great lakes/inland agt does cross over to second mate agt oceans though…
CFR 46-11.403 Structure of Deck Officer Endorsements. Master Great Lakes and Inland AGT to Master Oceans/NC AGT. It’s been there for years. I have several friends who have taken this route also. The only difference is that I have to submit my assessments. They did it before policy letter 04-02 was in effect.
I did the Second Mate crossover two years ago.
I tend to doubt that the chart carries any weight. That is just there to show how the deck licenses interact but there still needs to be a specific cfr saying that crossover is possible, like with master great lakes/inland to 2m oceans. Maybe they changed something years ago and never updated the reference chart.
Well, my application has been approved and like I mentioned, several of my colleagues have already done it. It is possible, believe what you like.
[QUOTE=Capt. Phoenix;76167]I tend to doubt that the chart carries any weight. That is just there to show how the deck licenses interact but there still needs to be a specific cfr saying that crossover is possible, like with master great lakes/inland to 2m oceans. Maybe they changed something years ago and never updated the reference chart.[/QUOTE]
Well, my application has been approved by NMC and, like I mentioned several of my colleagues have already done this. It is possible, believe what you like.
Wow, good for you. The colleagues you mentioned you said did this over ten years ago, a lot can change in that time so that wasn’t very convincing.
An unlimited Master on my vessel just did it last year. If you really feel compelled to be “convinced” about this topic, consult Chuck Kakuska at Sea-K’s licensing service. He will set you straight. He was the head of the USCG Toledo REC and has 22 years of maritime licensing experience. Have a good day.
The route to unlimited master discussed here still exists. Congrats on the raise in grade RJB.
I used Mr Kakusa back in the 90’s for a consult glad to hear he is still in business.
I should have said CM TIME, not exam. Excuse me.
See 46CFR 11.401(e)
(e) Master or third mate near-coastal unlimited endorsements may be obtained by completing the prescribed examination in subpart I of this part and satisfying the requirements of paragraph (g) of this section while holding a license or MMC endorsement as unlimited master or mate, respectively, upon Great Lakes and inland waters. To have a near-coastal-unlimited endorsement obtained in this manner endorsed for ocean service, the mariner must obtain 12 months of service as a deck-watch officer or higher on ocean waters on vessels of 1,600 GRT or over, in addition to completing the examination topics.
I was curious why they would exempt you from the exam. It’s great that you found a way around the need for the six months if chief mate time.