Jones Act and Tug Industry

Maritime Topics Tugs & Towing
1

Hey everyone,

I was just thinking about the Jones Act, and the implications it would have for the Tug Industry, workboat Industry, and all the small boats in general. Lets say the Jone’s Act was repealed tomorrow, (Heaven Help Us), would that have an adverse effect on the tug industry? My friend was saying that American Companies would no longer have to have American Citizen licensed Mariners operate Tugs, and I guess he argues that people could get for example Indian Mariner licenses and use those to compete for jobs with Americans who are Coast Guard Credentialed? That doesn’t seem accurate, but I am still wondering what the effect of a Jones Act repeal would be for the work boat industry.

2

US flagged commercial vessels are required by law to be under the control of a US citizen, if the requirement for that vessel requires a licensed master…would have to be a US licensed master. 46 USC 8103.

3

Right but if the Jones Act was repealed, then Tug Boats wouldn’t have to be US flagged Vessels, and so you could theoretically have a foreign tug company come to the US, and hire cheaper labor (and build a workboat school to train them if it was Coast Guard Certified) and those guys would just work dirt cheap. This doesn’t make sense though I’m just trying to figure out any possible threat to the industry.

4

yes, Jones Act means a US flagged, US built, US manned vessel in any coastwise trade. Your question is too vague. Do you mean Jones Act (Merchant Marine Act of 1920) fully and completely repealed or just the US built portion of it?

If you mean the entire act thrown out, take it somewhere else…we don’t even discuss this in the hypothetical here. SUCH TALK IS HERESY AND VIOLATORS CAN BE BURNED AT THE STAKE!

I had an American mate on the drillship I was master of who was a devout libertarian who foreswore any government regulation of any kind including the Jones Act. I wanted to immolate him for such UTTER BLASPHEMY!

5

If the Jones Act was repealed you would have Liberian flagged harbor tugs docking ships and moving scows and barges in every U.S. port, Panamanian flagged push boats would be plying the Mississippi, Ohio and Western Rivers, and all of our offshore oil industry vessels and coast wide trade would be up for grabs for any flag of convenience. The one thing that all these disparate fleets would have in common is that there would be no American mariners employed aboard these vessels!

6

Yes, if any of this nonsense happened there would be no more work. No company would hire one of us americans to operate a FOC vessel, or I can’t think of a reason why they would if not required to do so.

7

The same owners would be operating the same boats under foreign flags with very low cost foreign mariners. All new boats would be built in Turkey or China.

But why stop their, let’s allow foreign airlines to carry passengers the US. Lets bring in foreign trucks and truck drivers. If we really want to save money, lets allow foreign hospitals with foreign doctors and nurses. But the real money would be in letting thebgovernment hire foreign workers to process all the unemployment and welfare claims.

8

[QUOTE=tugsailor;153034]The same owners would be operating the same boats under foreign flags with very low cost foreign mariners. All new boats would be built in Turkey or China.

But why stop their, let’s allow foreign airlines to carry passengers the US. Lets bring in foreign trucks and truck drivers. If we really want to save money, lets allow foreign hospitals with foreign doctors and nurses. But the real money would be in letting thebgovernment hire foreign workers to process all the unemployment and welfare claims.[/QUOTE]

Indeed, think of the huge boost to the economy if we throw open the borders to all entrants who will do all the work in the country for a mere pittance and all the rest of us can live in luxury while they sweat and toil and pay taxes to fund all the social welfare programs our being the native Americans entitles us to…just like Kuwait!

9

now you’re talking my language. Maybe McCain is onto something, but while we are at it we can even outsource the senate/congress to somewhere like Piraeus.

10

[QUOTE=z-drive;153040]now you’re talking my language. Maybe McCain is onto something, but while we are at it we can even outsource the senate/congress to somewhere like Piraeus.[/QUOTE]

sure…anywhere as long as they deliver the bacon!

suddenly I’m damned hungry…what do they eat in Kuwait City? I wouldn’t imagine bacon unless it is in some speakeasy where you have to know the right person and the secret password. Along with the all you can eat pork buffet, you can guzzle liquor, oogle nekkid white wimmen and fondle boys

11

[QUOTE=tugsailor;153034]The same owners would be operating the same boats under foreign flags with very low cost foreign mariners. All new boats would be built in Turkey or China.

But why stop their, let’s allow foreign airlines to carry passengers the US. Lets bring in foreign trucks and truck drivers. If we really want to save money, lets allow foreign hospitals with foreign doctors and nurses. But the real money would be in letting thebgovernment hire foreign workers to process all the unemployment and welfare claims.[/QUOTE]

Thats not good. But the low cost foreign mariners, wouldn’t they have to be living in America if they were working on work boats, so they wouldn’t be doing it dirt cheap, they would still have to get licensed by the Coast Guard, so its not like companies would be paying them $7 dollars an hour to hop on the boat for a few days. But, the same owners operating under foreign flags would have access to a larger/cheaper labor pool, if that labor didn’t have to be credentialed and could be from anywhere. Thats the dangerous part.

Was Mccain trying to totally annihilate The Jones Act or just portions of it? Either way I don’t like it.

12

There would be no requirement to live in the Us or be licensed by the CG.

They would put a Malaysian crew on a harbor tug for a year at a time, maybe longer?

13

The way customs and immigration is for Mariners at least for us in Seattle there is no way in hell everyone could hire foreign crews and go port to port without those guys heads exploding.

14

I agree that customs and immigration, and Homeland Security would be overwhelmed, but we cannot let that get in the way of shipowner profits and McCain’s cost savings for consumers. Why fool around with half measures? We could just throw the borders open and let free market capitalism take its course.

This why the Jones Act will never be repealed. There is no logical stopping point.

15

they would work a back-room deal to just never let those guys ashore, and with no jones act the customs system would be totally changed for “no-rules” operation. Non issue!

16

[QUOTE=outerrimm;153019]Hey everyone,

I was just thinking about the Jones Act, and the implications it would have for the Tug Industry, workboat Industry, and all the small boats in general. Lets say the Jone’s Act was repealed tomorrow, (Heaven Help Us), would that have an adverse effect on the tug industry? My friend was saying that American Companies would no longer have to have American Citizen licensed Mariners operate Tugs, and I guess he argues that people could get for example Indian Mariner licenses and use those to compete for jobs with Americans who are Coast Guard Credentialed? That doesn’t seem accurate, but I am still wondering what the effect of a Jones Act repeal would be for the work boat industry.[/QUOTE]

First off, India is not a FoC country. You need to be a citizen of India to get an Indian Mariner’s License, just like USA. Unlike USCG, which grants licenses to even Green Card Holders aka Permanent Residents, India does not even do that, in spite of you having a resident/work permit. Not a citizen, no mariners’ lic. Simple.

Second, in the order of man power supplied, Philippines comes first, followed by East Europe, Chinese and then fourth, Indians. You should tell you co-worker Bubba, to be more scared of the Filipinos and the Chinese, who have a better network in this country (especially through the Christian Missionary network), than the Indians.

Third, all these sailors are deep sea sailors with experience on ocean going ships, not tugs or ATBs. Where are they going to get the coast wise experience to replace you?

And, more importantly, having gone through this entire thread, pray inform me, which category of work permit/visa exists in USA that allows in for zero to low skilled blue collar worker inside USA & work legally? If it did, why would there be 10million odd illegal immigrants in this country, all doing low skill jobs? You guys do understand the fact that one needs a work permit to work in any country, including the coastal waters, right?

Why do guys have your knickers in such a twist over this insane, pot fuelled thread?

Instead, worry about this?

China’s Louisiana Purchase: Environmental concerns in ‘Cancer Alley’

17

So wait…why try and kill the jones act for coastwise trade if you can’t use FOC vessels and crew for it?

18

[QUOTE=z-drive;153119]So wait…why try and kill the jones act for coastwise trade if you can’t use FOC vessels and crew for it?[/QUOTE]

Sure, you may be able to use FoC vessels, but about how are they going to use FoC crew to sail coast wise/Great Lakes, I’ve no effin idea. And, how are they going to get a TWIC beats me too.

True Story:

I was at the TWIC centre in NJ last year due to a stupid mistake that I made and elected to go personally as its not that far and would take max 5 mins to solve it. While trying to find parking space, I noticed a woman standing outside and fleetingly wondered why is she outside in 90F when she could be cool inside where its air-conditioned? Parked the car and while entering, I noticed her again and wondered for a moment whether she was Chinese or Filpino? (Well, she was fat and I was playing mental games). We all know what documentation it takes to get past the guardian at the TWIC centre. Sat there and saw the drama unfolding. That Chinese/Filipino wanted a TWIC and the guardian, leave alone allowing her to enter, would not even look at her documents. The said lady wanted a TWIC so that she can enter the port and join her husband as a supernumerary.

Two things I quickly surmised were:

  1. She was in USA on a dependent visa and USA is very clear about the fact that anybody on a dependent visa cannot work. Get caught and the entire family is deported, apart from being fined.
  2. The husband was probably on a US crew visa and no amount of pleading, including from the ship line, the rep, phone calls from hubby on ship, crying, etc would make the guardian budge.

Why? 'Coz, as per rules, NO WORK PERMIT = NO TWIC = NO ACCESS TO DOCKS. The guardian went back to painting her nails and talking on her cell.

So, how are these guys going to get a work visa and a TWIC?

19

Supernumerary? Man you using all sorts of fancy words this week…

21

[QUOTE=Fraqrat;153124]Supernumerary? Man you using all sorts of fancy words this week…[/QUOTE]

LOL. Sowwie :slight_smile: