Anyone know a Well Control class that’s approved for both IADC and IWCF? I don’t know where my rig is going yet, and I’d rather not take it twice. 
[QUOTE=Orniphobe;44200]Anyone know a Well Control class that’s approved for both IADC and IWCF? I don’t know where my rig is going yet, and I’d rather not take it twice. :)[/QUOTE]
I see where some of the prominent schools teach both, but I don’t understand if they’re combined as far as being approved under one class. It did not look like it, but I’m sure the schools can answer that.
Approved IWCF Centers
http://www.iwcf.org/IWCF/Public/centres1.htm
Approved IADC Centers
http://www.iadc.org/DrillIndustryTraining/DIT_schools.htm
I looked as well and I get the same read. One or the other, but not both together. I am going to be at WCS in Laurel, MS next week and I will ask while I am there. Maybe someone there will know something. If I find anything out I will post it here.
Pride started sending us maritime types to online training for well control. I haven’t taken the class yet but it is IADC approved elearning.
If that’s the WCS University Online, it is a good course, especially for mariners. Frontier was using that. You can go at your own pace and rewind as many times as you want. The Choke and Kill manifold simulations are pretty cool.
[QUOTE=Orniphobe;44223]If that’s the WCS University Online, it is a good course, especially for mariners. Frontier was using that. You can go at your own pace and rewind as many times as you want. The Choke and Kill manifold simulations are pretty cool.[/QUOTE]
Online training for well control instead of experience, class room time and hands on training? That is EXACTLY the kind of penny pinching BS that has been noted in the Horizon investigation.
Let’s reverse the scenario. Let’s say you have a rig that needs mates and masters but your rig is derrick-men,drillers, roustabouts, etc. So, you set up or pay someone else to set up an online course to teach these guys to be mates and masters. They can go at their own pace and rewind as many times as they want. In the end they get a certificate saying they are mates and/or masters. They get a 10-20% raise and fill the slot required by the regulations while doing their regular derrick-man, driller, roustabout job… Are they REALLY mates or master or OIM? Nah, but who cares? It’s cheaper this way and if anything bad happens well…send 'em to prison they shoulda known better; they got the license/certificate saying they are competent. Hell, if anything happens they can always rewind and try again. There are companies out there now using rig mechanics to fill licensed engineer slots. The rig mechanics have a AE license [which fills the manning slot] but rarely walk into the engine room and know very little about it. Meets the regs but not the intention of the regs. Flag state and classification group knows this goes on but won’t enforce their own rules. Why? money of course…
[QUOTE=tengineer;44233]Online training for well control instead of experience, class room time and hands on training? That is EXACTLY the kind of penny pinching BS that has been noted in the Horizon investigation.
Let’s reverse the scenario. Let’s say you have a rig that needs mates and masters but your rig is derrick-men,drillers, roustabouts, etc. So, you set up or pay someone else to set up an online course to teach these guys to be mates and masters. They can go at their own pace and rewind as many times as they want. In the end they get a certificate saying they are mates and/or masters. They get a 10-20% raise and fill the slot required by the regulations while doing their regular derrick-man, driller, roustabout job… Are they REALLY mates or master or OIM? Nah, but who cares? It’s cheaper this way and if anything bad happens well…send 'em to prison they shoulda known better; they got the license/certificate saying they are competent. Hell, if anything happens they can always rewind and try again. There are companies out there now using rig mechanics to fill licensed engineer slots. The rig mechanics have a AE license [which fills the manning slot] but rarely walk into the engine room and know very little about it. Meets the regs but not the intention of the regs. Flag state and classification group knows this goes on but won’t enforce their own rules. Why? money of course…[/QUOTE]
You do know they’re talking about a one-week class - for well control - that doesn’t have much value unless it’s coupled with previous experience and licensing - for deck officers? If you knew that, what you just said makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
[QUOTE=tengineer;44233]Online training for well control instead of experience, class room time and hands on training? That is EXACTLY the kind of penny pinching BS that has been noted in the Horizon investigation. [/QUOTE]
I’ll disagree with you on this one. I’ve done both classroom and the online class. The classroom is better for interaction and discussing with classmates and the instructor, but a lot of sea stories. The online class has a better simulator you can play with for as long as you want. It’s more effective at teaching concepts I think, even if you weren’t in a class full of drillers with the instructors going at their pace (it’s all review for them.) Plus, as a mate, you are not going to get ANY well control experience on the rig.
I wish I could have taken a third of those Chief Mate classes online.
I haven’t had IWCF yet but I inderstand it’s more like a license prep class and you take a test at the end that’s tougher than IADC.
[QUOTE=anchorman;44237]You do know they’re talking about a one-week class - for well control - that doesn’t have much value unless it’s coupled with previous experience and licensing - for deck officers? If you knew that, what you just said makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.[/QUOTE]
My beef is this. There are OIMs [offshore installation manager] working now who know little to nothing about drilling. They were masters first and got the job on a drill-ship/rig because the COI said they have to have a master. The COI also says you need an OIM. But rather than pay for an OIM AND a master on one rig these companies decided to send their master off to well control school and a few other never fail courses. After a couple of months you are an OIM. [You can’t send a driller off to master school due to the license experience and progression requirements.] They save money by eliminating one position. They have a offshore installation manager that’s pliable and easily led because he/she knows very little about drilling but is on paper responsible for the rig. It makes the entire OIM license a joke except for the poor OIM left holding the bag after a disaster.
[QUOTE=tengineer;44280]My beef is this. There are OIMs [offshore installation manager] working now who know little to nothing about drilling. They were masters first and got the job on a drill-ship/rig because the COI said they have to have a master. The COI also says you need an OIM. But rather than pay for an OIM AND a master on one rig these companies decided to send their master off to well control school and a few other never fail courses. After a couple of months you are an OIM. [You can’t send a driller off to master school due to the license experience and progression requirements.] They save money by eliminating one position. They have a offshore installation manager that’s pliable and easily led because he/she knows very little about drilling but is on paper responsible for the rig. It makes the entire OIM license a joke except for the poor OIM left holding the bag after a disaster.[/QUOTE]
Which company allows that?
[QUOTE=tengineer;44280]My beef is this. There are OIMs [offshore installation manager] working now who know little to nothing about drilling. They were masters first and got the job on a drill-ship/rig because the COI said they have to have a master. The COI also says you need an OIM. But rather than pay for an OIM AND a master on one rig these companies decided to send their master off to well control school and a few other never fail courses. After a couple of months you are an OIM. [You can’t send a driller off to master school due to the license experience and progression requirements.] They save money by eliminating one position. They have a offshore installation manager that’s pliable and easily led because he/she knows very little about drilling but is on paper responsible for the rig. It makes the entire OIM license a joke except for the poor OIM left holding the bag after a disaster.[/QUOTE]
I can tell you that is not the case where I work. Yes, the master is also the OIM and it is true that they both have limited knowledge of drilling operations, “BUT” there is a Drilling Superintendent that is in charge of the drilling operation. At other companies this would be the OIM, but better. The reason it is better is the Drilling Superintendent does not have as much BS personnel issues to deal with. He can concentrate more on the drilling part and less time on the somebody’s feeling got hurt part. There are also two Toolpushers that cover the watches 24 hrs. Then you have two drillers and 4 assistant drillers. There are no positions eliminated just because the Master is the OIM, also. On top of the company personnel you have various company men. Most of these company men are ex-OIM’s or Petroleum engineers. There is plenty of leadership and direction. That poor OIM is very well compensated and I am sure is aware of the consequences of his position should things go wrong, but I fail to see how this is any different from any other marine incident, oil spill, grounding, collision or disaster.
[QUOTE=Capt. Lee;44297]I can tell you that is not the case where I work. Yes, the master is also the OIM and it is true that they both have limited knowledge of drilling operations, “BUT” there is a Drilling Superintendent that is in charge of the drilling operation. At other companies this would be the OIM, but better. The reason it is better is the Drilling Superintendent does not have as much BS personnel issues to deal with. He can concentrate more on the drilling part and less time on the somebody’s feeling got hurt part. There are also two Toolpushers that cover the watches 24 hrs. Then you have two drillers and 4 assistant drillers. There are no positions eliminated just because the Master is the OIM, also. On top of the company personnel you have various company men. Most of these company men are ex-OIM’s or Petroleum engineers. There is plenty of leadership and direction. That poor OIM is very well compensated and I am sure is aware of the consequences of his position should things go wrong, but I fail to see how this is any different from any other marine incident, oil spill, grounding, collision or disaster.[/QUOTE]
That’s what I thought. It’s a title that floats between the Master or the Drilling Superintendent, not an extra position. From what I gather, companies that are willing to crew inexperienced Masters, are the same ones that put the OIM title on the Drilling Superintendent. I know jack shit about drilling, but if I was an experienced Master as far as drilling, I would prefer the title of OIM, just to concentrate my authority. Having 2-3 people to make the final call on something just doesn’t work in emergencies.
[QUOTE=Capt. Lee;44297]I can tell you that is not the case where I work. Yes, the master is also the OIM and it is true that they both have limited knowledge of drilling operations, “BUT” there is a Drilling Superintendent that is in charge of the drilling operation. At other companies this would be the OIM, but better. [/QUOTE]
The OIM, who is the final authority on the rig while drilling according to every regulation I have read, should not have “limited knowledge of drilling operations”. The point made of the drilling super actually being in charge is true and as it should be. But when the shit hits the fan it’s the OIM who has to answer the hard questions so it just makes sense that the drilling super be the OIM or a separate OIM position created.
Masters don’t like this idea because Master/OIM make a little more money but if there going to be an ultimate authority on a drilling rig it should be the person with the most expertise in drilling. The master could still handle all the personnel issues etc he just wouldn’t have to answer a bunch of questions about something outside his area of expertise if things hit the fan.THE most important thing is you’d have an OIM who knew the drilling business and the OIM would be someone whose expertise was respected by everyone on board.
So where is the defining line when the Master takes control of the rig during an emergency? Then what?
[QUOTE=Capt. Lee;44311]Then what?[/QUOTE]
Rock, Paper, Scissors
[QUOTE=Capt. Lee;44311]So where is the defining line when the Master takes control of the rig during an emergency? Then what?[/QUOTE]
Good question. Let’s say there’s a potential well control emergency. There’s been some kicks and mud volumes aren’t quite right, everyone on the drill floor is concerned and have notified the tool pusher on tower. The main players are the tool pusher, drilling superintendent, company man and master. In this case let’s assume the drilling superintendent is the OIM, he understands all the technical jargon etc and decides it’s time to shut in the well and prepare to leave if things don’t work out. At this time he can let the master know that they may be disconnecting at any moment. The master being a competent individual makes sure his team is prepared to move. There is not a lot of voyage planning involved in situations like this so the master stands by waiting for the word from the drilling expert that there now exists an untenable situation and it’s time to move. Once he has to get underway of course he’d be in charge because the drilling super’s expertise is not ship/rig handling.
Capt. Lee, I’m sure you know that there are drilling companies out there that don’t even have a master on board until it comes time to relocate. It just makes sense to have the OIM be the one with the most drilling experience since drilling is what’s going on.
Yes, I am aware of it and I don’t like it one bit. There has to be one person in charge. Not one person in charge until the $hit hits the fan, then the master takes over. I think we can see the hazards of that. You don’t have to be an expert in drilling to be the OIM and make informed decisions with regards to the safety of the facility and the crew.
[QUOTE=Capt. Lee;44317]Yes, I am aware of it and I don’t like it one bit. There has to be one person in charge. Not one person in charge until the $hit hits the fan, then the master takes over. I think we can see the hazards of that. You don’t have to be an expert in drilling to be the OIM and make informed decisions with regards to the safety of the facility and the crew.[/QUOTE]
I agree 100% and the more I think about the more I am convinced that when it hits the fan you need a person in charge [OIM] who A: Knows enough that he cannot be BS’ed by anyone about the true nature of the situation. B: This person needs some major league balls and enough money in the bank to say "Hell no, this ain’t right. This may be my last job in this industry but right now I’m the boss so shut it in until we get more information."
Problem is so many of these guys are tied by the golden handcuffs.
Enough work talk, enjoy your Thanksgiving Lee wherever you are.
tengineer
Thank you. Happy Thanksgiving to you, too. I am on the rig but will be getting off around noon heading to the beach. Looks like I will be spending my Thanksgiving in the airport. At least I will be heading in the right direction.
I appreciate the opinions. I promise you that this same subject is on a lot of peoples’ minds.