Hello to everyone and happy holidays first things first. My company says that tankerman can work 15 hrs a day but a Captain I worked for about 2 years ago me showed me the CFR which if I remember correct says anyone with a mmd can not work more than 12 hrs a day. Has the CFR changed and were can i find the CFR.
15 hours in a 24 hour period, but it also say 36 hours in a 72 hour period. Thats from OPA 90.
Thank you I do appreciate the info Happy holidays
if you are being forced to work 15 hours a day then you need to find a better employer. BUT the real question is the work hours.
We are regulated by DOT/DHS ‘hours of work rules.’ These rules state: 'You can work no more than 12 hours in any 24 hour period" and “If you work more than 8 hours, you must have at least six off before you start your next watch schedule” and “You may work up to 15 (read 3 extra hours) hours a day but only for the safety, security and ships business.” However it is understood that the 15 hours a day is NOT in the ordinary day to day operations of a vessel. I will dig around for the specific CFR’s you are looking for. But your office actually knows the laws, but they are abusing them for their benefit, and to your detriment.
IIRC, no more than 36 hours in a 72 hour period. You can work up to 15 hours in one 24 hour period as long as you do not exceed the 36 hours in 72 rule. For example 12 hrs on day one. 15 on day two. Then a max of 9 hours on day three keeps you from going over 72. On the fourth day you throw out day one’s hours. You can work 12 and still stay in the 72.
Cut and pasted from USC 8104, manning, and work hours: USC 8104
[U]B[/B][/U][U][B]On a tanker, a licensed individual or seaman may not be permitted to work more than 15 hours in any 24-hour period, or more than 36 hours in any 72-hour period, except in an emergency or a drill. In this subsection, “work” includes any administrative duties associated with the vessel whether performed on board the vessel or onshore.
So as mentioned by the others, if you do the math, you would be “over hours” if you worked 15 hours a day consecutively day after day. Three days of 15 hour days would total 45 hours, which is clearly in violation of the regulations.
For some thought, 72 hours is 3 days. So if you work 15 hours today and 12 hours the next two days (or any combination before or after) that totals 39 hours. If you work 15 hours a day for days on end, then that totals 45 hours in 72. So, either way THAT is in violation of the law! If you have to work 15 hours on one day, then by law you must be allowed extra time off in the next two (or previous two) days to bring down the hours to total 36 in 72. Or alternately you could have a ‘slow’ day prior to, to get the cumulative hours below 36 in 72. BUT in NO case can you be [I][B]required[/B][/I] to work more than 15 hours a day (except for the safety of the vessel.) That is by a good employer who is NOT abusing their employees, and encouraging violation of the manning regulations [ala Mel Oliver, DRD Towing] If you are being required to work these hours regularly then you must realize that if you have an ‘incident’ the USCG will figure the hours out and if they find you were tired, or made mistakes due to sleep deprivation YOU will be held accountable, probably lose your PIC for a couple months, and have a record. BUT, don’t expect your company to defend you. They will plead ignorance, and try to put the blame on YOU.
Who said anything about company abuse. I get OT after 8 hours, so I love to work 12 hour days with a 15 hour in there once in awhile. If the rules would allow more I would work more. What the hell else am I gonna do out there? Watch movies? Plenty of time for that when I go home. Eat, sleep, work and make money is all I want to do out there. Then go home and take my rest period.
the difference is if you are ‘required’ to do it and NOT get compensated the extra (as it sounds like is happening to the OP) then, yes that IS abuse.
however, to be required to work continuous 15 hour days is not acceptable and is actually illegal. THAT is abuse. There is a difference between being asked, and getting paid to work long hours versus having to work illegal hours for no extra money and have it shoved in your face that ‘this is your job, do it or your fired.’ The OP suspected something amiss, since he was shown previously what the law is, and is asking if what the company is doing is correct.
[QUOTE=brjones;45272]Who said anything about company abuse. I get OT after 8 hours, so I love to work 12 hour days with a 15 hour in there once in awhile. If the rules would allow more I would work more. What the hell else am I gonna do out there? Watch movies? Plenty of time for that when I go home. Eat, sleep, work and make money is all I want to do out there. Then go home and take my rest period.[/QUOTE]
Thank everyone for the info i only get paid for 12 hrs no overtime so i am working for free which in an emergency it would not matter but they are saying i can work 15hrs a day as a tankerman just to prove there point that they can make me do it.
Ok. I didn’t realize that was the case. Well I would hold them to the 36 hour rule. If they want you to work a 15 hour day then you will have to shave off the time within the 72 hours.
Curious what tanker company this is? If you don’t want to say, that’s fine. I’m also curious if this is coming from the company or from the shipboard management? It’s been seven years since I’ve worked tankers (and I’m not going back either), but I always got a kick out of the semi-regular missives from company HQ reminding us that we were required to stay within our hours and this was never to be exceeded except in emergency conditions. But then when push came to shove and we tried to point out that we couldn’t perform certain evolutions without violating said laws, we’d be told to get it done or they’d find someone who could get it done. But I’ve noticed, even within the same company, one ship would regularly abuse their mates, but another would make sure the laws were being followed.
I understand the OPA-90 work hour rules…but how does that fit in with STCW work hour rules? STCW limits watchstanders to 14 hours per day, which is even more restrictive than OPA-90. Does OPA-90 supersede STCW somehow? I’ve never heard that it did, but I’d be interested to know for sure. Personally, I would hold the company to the more restrictive standard until I knew for sure. And, as mentioned before, definitely hold them to the 72-hour limitations. Keep your nose clean and document EVERYTHING relating to this. If the company fires you for not obeying their illegal orders, you have a case. More likely you’ll finish out your tour and not be asked back. Even then, if others are being asked back, you may have a case there also. But why would you want to work for such an outfit anyway? There are other ships and companies out there.