[QUOTE=type2msd;60191]Yup im an idiot.[/QUOTE][B][SIZE=7]You certainly have that one right!
[/B][/SIZE][B]
Only the stupidest of cretins would pick “SHIT TANK” as a username & on top of that you can’t spell either…effing FOOL![/B]
[QUOTE=c.captain;60256]
Only the stupidest of cretins would pick “SHIT TANK” as a username & on top of that you can’t spell either…effing FOOL![/SIZE][/B][/QUOTE]
You tell em!
Personally, I am against the concept of drug testing, in a way that infringes upon what I MAY do on my time off, in my own home…
Then comes along this excellent example of why it is needed in the first place.
Thanks Shittank. Make sure when you reapply you lie on your app too. They will probably never ‘catch’ this little infraction anyway! 
[QUOTE=seadog!;60237]This is the Professional Mariner Forum.
Go ahead and do it.
It will open up a job for a Professional Mariner.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for my laugh for the day! I can’t read the original post, because it seems to have been deleted, but I can guess someone was asking if they can smoke marijuana in the Netherlands and give that as an explanation for a positive on a drug test. I’m just curious, do the drugs being tested for belong to some kind of international standard? Impairment is impairment no matter what country you come from.
[QUOTE=cappy208;60282]Personally, I am against the concept of drug testing, in a way that infringes upon what I MAY do on my time off, in my own home…
Then comes along this excellent example of why it is needed in the first place.
[/QUOTE]
Can you explain your statement? I seem to have missed out on the original post. Why would you be against drug testing, and then say it is needed after all based on whatever was posted here (which I didn’t see).
Without any context, I agree with drug testing in jobs that require quick thinking, because many controlled substances impair your ability to make decisions. Is that what you are talking about?
[QUOTE=MariaW;60284]Can you explain your statement? [/QUOTE]
the guy made a bogus rhetorical question/statement about ‘if’ one was to go to amsterdam and partake in smoking marijuana; if upon rearrival to the the US, when reporting to his vessel he was called in for a random drug test would he have a valid reason for having THC in his system, since he (allegedly) ingested it in another country (that it is legal to do so) and what did others in his industry (US) think about this. The question was SO transparent, that a few posts later he admitted that he DID this, and this was not a “Hypothetical” at all.
I am disgusted that our government has decided to single out the transportation industry for random drug tests. Each and every one of the auto drivers on the road has the potential to drive guided bombs around, yet they don’t have to piss in a bottle. Hundreds of thousands of US beneficiaries of welfare, SSA, food stamps, WIC, and Illegals all receive MY tax money for free, yet I have to piss in a bottle randomly, since someone in DC (who in all 535 members of our political system) DON’T (as usual) have to follow the exact same system THEY enacted!
But I rant. I have seen the improvement in the class of mariner since before and after drug testing was implemented. But the egregious errors that are happening IMHO are the same ones, with the same percentages (again, IMHO) as before. Just now, in our industry at least, they are looking for any other reason to blame… age, medication, illness, ‘unprofessional ism’, lack of training, lack of oversight etc etc etc. The reason has changed, but the blame is still being searched for, since SOMEONE has to be blamed. It certainly can’t be ‘My’ fault! The OP was apparently a deckhand. I know of several deckhands I have had (knowing they were clean and sober) were about as lethargic and useful as a turnip aboard. Their use in an emergency situation would have been iffy at best. BUT they were clean on the drug tests!!! Heck, they were pretty much useless as a deckhand (but thought they were the bomb!)
I know I have overlooked something, but I don’t recall the last time a commercial mariner was checked (post accident) and found to be under the influence. Sure, occasionally one gets popped on a random, but from what I hear, these accidents are just caused by carelessness, human error, (god forbid) lack of experience, or just plain oops. I have the pleasure(?) of knowing several drunks (not that I don’t tip the bottle when I am home either) But these two that come to mind are really scary, seat of the pants, not your normal boatmen. But if you asked them, they were aces. Now that they are sober (and one in particular lost his license, and had to get his 30 day pin Et Al) to get his license back, They are JUST as scary and make the same unusual, over the top, and imprudent operational decisions as they did when running on budweiser! In my mind, it is NOT the alcohol that makes bad boatmen (and their decisions) but simply BAD boatmen. Not that bad boatmen have been somehow eradicated, just there is one less excuse now that we have drug testing. How many other ‘indicators’ are we going to have thrown up to ‘eliminate’ any possibilities of a bad boatman? Then again, who is in charge of this decision making/ implementing process? The government? and a military arm at that! There is a recipe for efficiency and productivity for ya! Remind you of 1984?
Once again cappy, you speak pure truth and wisdom.
[QUOTE=cappy208;60285]…Then again, who is in charge of this decision making/ implementing process? The government? and a military arm at that! …[/QUOTE]
Not “a military arm.” From 46 CFR 16.113: “Drug testing programs required by this part must be conducted in accordance with 49 CFR Part 40…” 49 CFR is the Office of the Secretary of Transportation.
[QUOTE=jdcavo;60288]Not “a military arm.” From 46 CFR 16.113: “Drug testing programs required by this part must be conducted in accordance with 49 CFR Part 40…” 49 CFR is the Office of the Secretary of Transportation.[/QUOTE]
Mariners are licensed by…
Mariners are regulated by the…
And mariners were included in DOT testing at the behest of…
And licensing is modified and codified upon the recommendation of…
And (Sorry I can’t recall the exact phrase) In time of war … becomes under the USNavy
The only thing that is incongruent is: And Department of Transportation is the overarching umbrella of…
So how do these government agencies get recommendations for and regulate MY industry…
No. The answer is NOT AWO. It is NOT the Unions. It is NOT industry.
Ding Ding, Ding. Uncle Sams Confused Group. This is NOT just a funny play upon the initials, it is from it’s own employees! Makes you wonder, huh?
It’s funny, when you talk about the USCG in a ‘military’ way some of its members get all huffy, that they aren’t in an arm of the Military, And when funding is needed they sure bitch about being the 5th service, and how they fall under Navy control in time of war. Must be nice to be able to have a moveable hat! What I use for a litmus test is: If your boat has more guns on it than mine, it MUST be military. Pretty simple, huh?
Working a foreign-flagged passenger ship the number of random drug tests is… zero. The rules on drinking… “not before watch”. Hmm…
[QUOTE=PMC;60298]Working a foreign-flagged passenger ship the number of random drug tests is… zero. The rules on drinking… “not before watch”. Hmm…[/QUOTE] So what is the rationale for the U.S. random drug testing? Are there any studies that show it improves anything?
As cappy said, the class of mariner has improved. Though it was mostly a knee jerk reaction to exxon valdez.
Oh, and I wouldn’t base any comparisons off of foreign cruise ships. I have heard very bad things about their quality of officers.
I don’t know about any studies that may have been done. but even today we lose a guy who whizzes dirty about once per year. I am going to amsterdam in July. Wanna bet I pass the test when I get home? Yer damned skippy I will.
If you see shit tank tell him we said hi!! On another note if they take our rum away what will we do??
[QUOTE=MariaW;60312]So what is the rationale for the U.S. random drug testing? Are there any studies that show it improves anything?[/QUOTE]
The concept of drug and alcohol testing started about 1990. TheExxon Valdez, Joseph Hazelwood.
I am unsure of actual studies, but having been in the industry since 1980, I have seen (anecdote aly) it positively affect the type of mariner out on the water. Prior to testing it was very common to have pot smoking, cocaine and heroin use, and drinking on US merchant vessels. Simply put there [U]was[/U] NO reason to NOT use. There was NO penalty. Now there is a penalty. You lose your papers to earn your livelihood.
There were a few casualties since that reinforced this. I erred in my earlier rant. The ‘Bay Titan’ capsized at the mouth of the C&D canal. Three guys died. Autopsies showed cocaine and pot in them. Although the Captain had NO drugs in his system, and the accident was attributed to his professional negligence the hue and cry about crew being under the influence somehow deflected the true cause of the accident.
An interesting phenomenon is occurring post accident. The post accident drug and alcohol testing has been a huge litmus test to determine guilt. IF a positive result is found, almost every time the liability is placed upon drug user. Or this is used as a ‘red herring’ to lessen the guilt of the responsible party. Even if it was (like the Bay Titan incident) really the captain pulling a stupid maneuver, once drug results come back all is pretty much ignored.
You can read through these news reports. In fact you can pay attention to most any accident. You will notice that once positive drug results are made public there MUST be a hanging to appease the regulatory end. It seems to me that now, since drug use is down. the USCG/ DOT/Homeland Security has started to look for other ‘reasons’ to place the blame. As I stated earlier, Human beings are prone to mistakes. NO industry will be made 100% error free. Until we are replaced with machines (that are error free and perfect) I don’t see an end to human errors in our industry.
Yep, those foreign cruise ships that move 24/7 in and out of a different port every day.
[QUOTE=cappy208;60319]The concept of drug and alcohol testing started about 1990. TheExxon Valdez, Joseph Hazelwood.
I am unsure of actual studies, but having been in the industry since 1980, I have seen (anecdote aly) it positively affect the type of mariner out on the water. Prior to testing it was very common to have pot smoking, cocaine and heroin use, and drinking on US merchant vessels. Simply put there [U]was[/U] NO reason to NOT use. There was NO penalty. Now there is a penalty. You lose your papers to earn your livelihood.
There were a few casualties since that reinforced this. I erred in my earlier rant. The ‘Bay Titan’ capsized at the mouth of the C&D canal. Three guys died. Autopsies showed cocaine and pot in them. Although the Captain had NO drugs in his system, and the accident was attributed to his professional negligence the hue and cry about crew being under the influence somehow deflected the true cause of the accident.
An interesting phenomenon is occurring post accident. The post accident drug and alcohol testing has been a huge litmus test to determine guilt. IF a positive result is found, almost every time the liability is placed upon drug user. Even if it was (like the Bay Titan incident) really the captain pulling a stupid maneuver, once drug results come back all is pretty much ignored.
You can read through these news reports. In fact you can pay attention to most any accident. You will notice that once positive drug results are made public there MUST be a hanging to appease the regulatory end. It seems to me that now, since drug use is down. the USCG/ DOT/Homeland Security has started to look for other ‘reasons’ to place the blame. As I stated earlier, Human beings are prone to mistakes. NO industry will be made 100% error free. Until we are replaced with machines (that are error free and perfect) I don’t see an end to human errors in our industry.[/QUOTE]
As a marine/offshore insurance industry professional, an accident free industry will make me look for work.
[B]Well, interesting. I can’t view the original post and assume the idiot has a new alias login.
The state I live in passed a law, which since, has been “found” unconstitutional, that welfare recipients be drug tested. I think that anyone receiving welfare from the government, should be treated as an “employee”, after all you are being paid not to work. You have health care, income, etc. Why should the populous that doesn’t do drugs, bear the burden of having to pay to prove they don’t?
Are you kidding me? Heck, I think it’s funny, who could [I]afford[/I] a drug habit anyway?
Regardless of all the “Blame” issues, and where all that sh_t falls, I doubt the original poster here, will comprehend all the lengthy statements.
Not knocking anyone’s opinion here, but I’m guessing the person is young and got kicked out of the proverbial “nest” and in order to retaliate, they were going to go [I]Way-far-away[/I], so thats where they got the idea to become a merchant mariner.
They probably focused on landing overseas jobs so they could still slip in, their teen-age, pot smoking is cool, bullshit as their lifestyle.
Oh, and come onnnnnnnnn, did you really think you are too old/professional, not to get a gCaptain spanking?
BTW I’m not condemning what people do on their time, but work is the company’s time.
Remember # 1 criteria for a job, YOU applied for it, it didn’t apply for YOU![/B]
[I]we now return you to your regularly scheduled program…[/I]
This kid didnt even put up a fight, wheres baldy when we need him
[QUOTE=chgonyer;60377]This kid didnt even put up a fight, wheres baldy when we need him[/QUOTE]
Now that there is priceless!!! ROTFLMBO!!