Foreign training

so my company will be sending me for ECDIS training in a “white list” foreign country. Will this be accepted to satisfy the upcoming requirement, or do I need to take a CG approved course here in the states?

A bit confused about the Marine Safety Manual, where Chapter 7, paragraph N states:

Approval of Foreign Training Courses.
The Coast Guard will not approve any course taught outside the territory of the United States, either by schools or institutions incorporated in a foreign country or by U.S. owned/operated schools or institutions. [I][B]However, training courses offered in schools whose states are on the “white list” maintained by the IMO, will be accepted to satisfy STCW training requirements provided training does not lead to certification or licensing[/B].[/I] A U.S. owned or operated training institution desiring to offer training outside the United States, must obtain the approval of that country’s administration.

Will ECDIS not be accepted since it will lead to “certification” for that endorsement? Or are they talking about an entire credential? What exactly is meant by that?

Wondering the same thing. Seems to contradict themselves where they will accept it but can’t be used for certification/endorsement…then what is it accepted for!!! Good question. Looking forward to hearing the answer.

Just about all white list countries will let anyone do their STCW-95 short courses, totally separate issue to getting a license.
Some might require a license to allow you on the course though.

NMC will most likely not accept it. I had a client that held Master AGT from the UK with every STCW endorsement who became a US citizen and was converting to US credentials. NMC and HQ (we appealed to HQ) required him to take all new US approved courses. “Acceptance” doesn’t mean anything when they are approving your application. Maybe the new reg package coming out will change that (doubtful) but I’ve been involved in this program since 1998 and they have always protected the US based courses for US mariner certification. The White List means nothing in the licensing and certification system in the US. The way I understand it is that NMC will only “accept” it if the course also seeks approval from the Coast Guard. There is a way for foreign based courses to seek approval, but NMC is reluctant to approve any courses overseas because they can’t oversee or audit them.

[QUOTE=AHammond;125198]NMC will most likely not accept it. I had a client that held Master AGT from the UK with every STCW endorsement who became a US citizen and was converting to US credentials. NMC and HQ (we appealed to HQ) required him to take all new US approved courses. “Acceptance” doesn’t mean anything when they are approving your application. Maybe the new reg package coming out will change that (doubtful) but I’ve been involved in this program since 1998 and they have always protected the US based courses for US mariner certification. The White List means nothing in the licensing and certification system in the US. The way I understand it is that NMC will only “accept” it if the course also seeks approval from the Coast Guard. There is a way for foreign based courses to seek approval, but NMC is reluctant to approve any courses overseas because they can’t oversee or audit them.[/QUOTE]

Under STCW, countries cannot issue a “certificate” based on training they did not approve (See STCW Convention Regulation I/2 and STCW Code Section A-I/6). A certificate is a credential or qualification issued under Chapters II or III of STCW, e.g. OICNW, OICEW, RFPEW, RFPNW, Chief Mate or Master, or Chief Engineer Second Engineer Officer. When it comes to issuing “certificates,” the white list is not relevant as the flag must approve the training themselves. Issuing a document under Chapter II or III based on training and a certificate from another white list country is called an “endorsement” under STCW, and the U.S. currently does not endorse the certificates of other countries (See STCW Regulation I/10).

ECDIS is an interesting application of the above. It is not an “ancillary” qualification like Advanced Fire Fighting , it is based on Chapter II of STCW and is one of the competencies in STCW Tables A-II/1 (OICNW) and A-II/2 (Master and Chief Mate). As such, it’s been called a “negative endorsement” in that if you don’t have it, you get a limitation on your OICNW, Chief Mate, or Master indicating that is not valid on ships with ECDIS after December 31, 2016 (if you do have it, you get nothing, there’s no mention (limitation) of it on your STCW endorsement). So it would seem that ECDIS training “leads to a certificate” under STCW as the requirement is part of the requirements for certification as OICNW, Chief Mate, or Master.

The same applies to ARPA. Not having ARPA training results in a limitation to your OICNW, Chief Mate and/or Master endorsement indicating it is not valid on vessels with ARPA.

so what happens if you need to do your ARPA type training in another country because the vendor doesnt have a school in your country?
Cant wait to see what happens to a DP ticket once the IMO adds it to the minimum manning list

As Mr. Cavo confirmed, if it’s not from a U.S. Coast Guard approved course, NMC will not accept it and your STCW endorsement will note a limitation stating that you cannot serve on vessels equipped with ARPA. ARPA is one of the courses that is a “one time” training requirement under the competencies of the STCW code. so if you completed a course in the past, that was Coast Guard approved, it should be accepted, no matter when you completed it.