You haven’t furnished any proof that they don’t!!!
The person making a positive claim (which is you in claiming they do) has the burden of proof.
Though here’s proof that the UK doesn’t:
A CeC, not a CoC.
This is not about Maritime Education, only safety training and the like.
The first list contains approved training centres in the UK.
Here is a list of some non-EU safety training centres that is approved by MCA:
I notice there are one such centre in USA, which have been mentioned here before.
This discussion started with whether foreign education and training could be used against issue of a national CoC anywhere, not whether CoC would be issued to non-nationals. (Some countries do, others don’t)
CeCs are issued based on your national CoC and only to people who holds a CoC from a country that is on their approved list. (USCG’s approved list contain Zero countries, but for some reasons several countries accept US licenses and training,as long as it is STCW compliant.
It should be noted that many countries require that the issuing nation of CoC and Passport of the applicant are the same.
Some countries only allow applications for CeCs to come from a shipowner/management company and may be made valid only for one ship, or ships belonging to/managed by that company.
If you want documented proof of this you need to check the Laws, Rules and Regulations of ALL maritime nations. I’m afraid you’ll have to do that yourself though.
PS> CeCs are ONLY valid for ships flying the flag of the issuing nation, so you may end up with a lot of different such endorsement if you operate on the worldwide job market.
Yes, initially it’s a CeC.
However, if you upgrade to a higher level, you must take the MCA exams and then you receive a MCA CoC.
MPT, and also Bluewater, in Fort Lauderdale both offer MCA approved STCW courses, including the MCA approved GMDSS course. The MCA even comes to Fort Lauderdale once or twice a year to administer the MCA Orals for up to 3000 GT CoCs.
There is also a doctor in Fort Lauderdale that issues the MCA ENG1 Seaman’s Medical Certificates.
A fellow Singaporean has stated that STCW is outdated and needs a complete revision to stay in step with the development in world shipping:
In other words, STCW is a bunch of bullshit.
The need for MCA to individually approve US training centres is that there is no reciprocal agreement between US and UK maritime authorities.
The need for MCA approved training centres in Fort Lauderdale must be because of the many British and Bermuda flag cruise ships?
BVI and Cayman Island vessels are also under MCA I believe (??)
PS> MCA has withdrawn approval of Indian and Pakistani training centres.
See Regulation I/6 of the STCW Convention:
Training and assessment
Each party shall ensure that:
.1 the training and assessment of seafarers, as required under the Convention, are administered, supervised and monitored in accordance with the provisions of section A-I/6 of the STCW Code; and
.2 those responsible for the training and assessment of competence of seafarers, as required under the Convention, are appropriately qualified in accordance with the provisions of section A-I/6 of the STCW Code for the type and level of training and assessment involved.
See also Section A-I/6 of the STCW Code:
Training and assessment
1 Each Party shall ensure that all training and assessment of seafarers for certification under the Convention is:
.1 structured in accordance with written programmes, including such methods and media of delivery, procedures, and course material as are necessary to achieve the prescribed standard of competence; and
.2 conducted, monitored, evaluated and supported by persons qualified in accordance with paragraphs 4, 5 and 6.
Similar provisions apply for recognizing certificates of competency from other p[arties, see Regulation I/10 pf the STCW Convention.
A party cannot accept training for CoCs solely because it’s approved by another administration. For certificates, training must be approved by the party that will issue the CoC. See STCW provisions cited above.
See above. The STCW doesn’t permit it.
Not correct. See above.
An MCA CeC is only issued to the holder of an "unlimited’ CoC. There is no higher level. When I got an MCA CeC based on the USCG 1st Assistant ticket I held at that time I did not have to take any exams.
If I wanted to upgrade that CeC to chief engineer (MCA 1st Eng) I would have to take the UKLAP exam and that is all and it would still be a CeC and not a CoC.
Yes, and don’t forget that 2+2=4.
No, as has been discussed here before it’s because of the yacht industry and the MCA yacht licenses.
Yes each party (i.e. Maritime Authority) DOES ensure, but not by sending their inspector to every training centre, or verify the institution where every seafarer that applies for a CeC got his education.
That is why there are mutual agreements between countries and a common standard known as STCW.
The European countries (EU/EEA) mutually recognise each others competence to carry out checks and issue CoCs based on the STCW only. (UK MAY not be part of EU soon, but hopefully they’ll stick to the mutual arrangement anyhow)
Here is a link to European Maritime Safety Agency (EMSA):
Here is a list of countries who’s CoC is accepted by MCA for issue of CeC:
We’re discussing the requirements for a CoC not a CeC. How many times do I need to remind you of that?
The MCA will issue a CeC to USCG limited license holder, but the MCA requires passing the Master’s Orals and the UKLAP, and presentation of a GMDSS certificate from a country on the MCA approved list (that’s just about everyone except the US).
An unlimited US 2nd or 3rd Mate can get a MCA CeC as OOW just by asking for it, plus presenting an acceptable GMDSS certificate. However,IIRC, when that 2nd Mate / OOW goes to upgrade to Chief Mate ? Chief Officer, he has to take the MCA exam, and he then gets a MCA CoC as Chief Officer.
It’s been awhile since I looked into this, so I may not recall all of it exactly.
You are discussing only CoC, the rest of us are discussing education, training and CeC, as well as whether there are mutual acceptance of each others educational and training institutions and standard.
You have that backwards. Everyone except you has been discussing CoC requirements since post #7, barring tangential discussions.
No that is NOT what he say!! (He is a Danish born gentleman and don’t use such language)
He say that it need a total overhaul, but sticking to the core principle of mutual international recognition.
Here is EMSA’s page re: “Systems for maritime education, training and certification of seafarers”: