Foreign Mariner


#1

I am curious about the impact for us maritime employment from foreign mariners. Foreign mariners in GoM is very serious issue to all mariners who are working hard on any sea. I have read some article of japanese mariners. It said japanese mariners(particulary deep sea) are losing their positions because of increasing supply of foreign mariner such as Philipine. After japanese government granted foreign company or workers to work on their sea, it has significant effect on japanese mariners to lose their position. As an employer it is always benefitial to use cheaper labor, and how can you compete with guys who only need about $1000/month to have good life back in their country? Only thing US mariner can do is to hope US rule makers not to change the regulation about US sea some day.


#2

Re selling the country out (including maritime jobs), Europe started outsourcing its dirty jobs back in the early seventies to foreigners who’d move in and work for less before US followed suit, the same game. And rich at the top let it grow up to take the better jobs over time. Germany clamped down on it back in the late nineties and made them all either give up their foreign citizenship duality or get out of Dodge. They targeted the outflow of the incomes to insure it was recycled back into German economy and made all sorts of restrictions to that end including even getting the clever foreigners who found ways to beat the system; the cops would spy and get them on even the slightest infraction of law and then deport for something that would not have normally given more than a warning or small fine. Since US followed Europe’s lead on selling country out, maybe it better follow suit to clamp down and $top the outflow. One thing, however, which Europe did not do, that the US has done all on its own is to allow the sell out to spread to government jobs, namely MSC (Military Sealift Command). For example, [FONT=Arial][SIZE=4]when a Promotion Board convenes, the last to know are those on the ships, and the notice comes late about 2 days before the deadline to apply making it impossible, in most cases, to apply. Unqualified applicants for the promotions get them, and it is a well known secret that a certain ethnic detailer readies these illicit sales of jobs and promotions for the ethnic majority in the Steward Dept. Favoritism, nepotism, corruption, abuse of authority, racism, etc, is alive and well in MSC; for example, the Navy and civilian mariners are aware of the MSC Guam hiring fiasco where local Chamorran people, the indigenous people of the US Territory of Guam, could not get the job because there was no equal opportunity for them since they were not a paying member of the ethnic majority of MSC (resident citizens and homeowners of a neighboring foreign country who have long used Guam as an enterprising conduit for quickly obtaining a discount green card or even citizenship outright for just a couple grand. Many mariners and many Americans, in general, who have experience abroad are aware of the several scams foreigners take advantage of to gain citizenship or a foothold into this country and its economy. The few locals who did manage to get hired there in Guam by MSC then were only able to get the job by going around the corrupt individual of the ethnic majority responsible for doing the MSC hiring and taking their complaint direct to the naval commander there in Guam.). How is it possible that someone who can’t communicate in English without an interpreter qualify to rise to the position of Chief Mate, First Electrician, or Detailer, etc, within MSC? In what other country’s defense infrastructure (government) could a similarity be found? How is it that MSC has a naturalized (over-night sometimes) ethnic majority (one that not only outnumbers all other ethnic minorities combined, but also outnumbers black and white American mariners combined, too) or even needs such a mercenary and racist ethnic group comprising the majority of crew (which is the case on MSC west coast ships)? And it is very strange that the majority of a crew sailing under a US flag, the flag of a ship that is property of the United States Navy, speaks fluently in a foreign language yet has serious difficulty understanding and speaking English (At times, this is also a pretext used to get out of doing certain assigned tasks, to the consternation of American supervisors.). And if you belong to the minority of as little as 25% or so of crew who are Americans with American standards on some US naval supply ship, you’d better like the ethnic food and not mind you are being cursed in Tagalog behind your back. Might as well raise their flag on the ship… This would be a dire shame even if there was no economic crisis with so many Americans out of work now. Is it because they complain less than the American worker? Would the American complain if his MSC paycheck had the same mileage in an economy where the norm is only a few hundred bucks per month? Basically, their income, which is paid at the same rate their American counterparts receive, does not recycle back into the American economy, and they have no patriotic reasons for taking our jobs and performing, in many cases, substandard quality work. There are no Werner von Brauns in their midst to justify any contribution that could not be made by any true American just as well, if not better. Are there not enough American seamen or potential American seamen to fill organizational needs for manning MSC vessels? None of these nationalistic, patriotic views should be misconstrued as xenophobic to the point that they also reflect on the minority of the ethnic majority who are bonafide immigrants or those born and bred here in this country, hold property and have family in this country, not only speak our language fluently and refrain from cursing us behind our backs in an unfamiliar tongue, but are those whose entire income is also recycled back into the US economy, whose intention it is to permanently recycle their income back into the US economy, the ones that make up the minority of the ethnic majority who also abhor (as do the other minorities abhor) the anti-equal opportunity and unethical ways of the majority of the ethnic majority and their involuntary affiliation therewith; this sub-group does exist, and it is not being referred to here. Although many might refrain from openly endorsing this view because it is apparently politically incorrect at first glance, noone lets the thin veil trick them into being blinded by what is really going on. It should be noted that all others, including the other various minorities, consider the blatant infiltration and ever-growing monopilization of a federal job like MSC by this racist, mercenary, ethnic majority, whose allegiance is tied strictly to the paycheck, to be an appalling phenomenon, one out of control, that has sadly become normalized over time. They can only continue to cheat/beat the system this way “legally” if our government continues to allow their monopolistic growth to continue. Add the antagonistic relations with the ethnic majority on board to the now antagonistic relations with the office in Norfolk, and you have a situation going from bad to worse for many mariners in MSC. Being a Defense matter, the President needs to be informed of this growing, festering problem. We need a moratorium on the hiring of this ethnic majority of mariners who don’t recycle their income back into the American economy. MSC should be forced to hire real Americans in America, stop the corruption, and stop selling us out! Consider the big picture, the sensitive nature of the job and inherent risks of operating a US naval supply ship, and then consider how, for example, money, as a matter of fact, can and does buy the use of Philippino labor to run stolen ships for the Somalian pirates!
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#3

Amshelved 100% correct in your analysis. When I worked for MSC there were several occasions where I had AB’s on my watch who simply could not speak the english language.It also needs to be pointed out that this would not be such a huge issue if MSC gave their mariners vacation time commiserate with the bare minimum of the industry. Working 6 months then being called back 16 days later (as I was) is not going to hold on to many mariners. For those current civmars that may read this don’t tell me that sitting at the pool should be counted as vacation, waking up at 5am just to sit in an unairconditioned room and watch TV sucks I would rater be sailing any day. MSC is the largest employer of mariners in the United States and everyone of those billets is supposed to go to american citizens for good reason, MSC provides support in a capacity that is vital to the US Navy. Yet nobody at the head office in Norfolk seems to care enough or be smart enough to ask why are there so many non english speakers with paper work that originates from Guam.


#4

[I]“used Guam as an enterprising conduit for quickly obtaining a discount green card or even citizenship outright for just a couple grand. Many mariners and many Americans, in general, who have experience abroad are aware of the several scams foreigners take advantage of to gain citizenship or a foothold into this country and its economy.”[/I]

I don’t believe it. Having experienced the process of getting a “Green Card” and U.S. Citizenship recently for my wife, I can report that [U]there are no short-cuts;[/U] even if one is “scamming”, (phony marriage, etc.), that Citizenship scam will take 3-5 years to execute.

There are lots of Filipinos working for MSC because they’ll do the extended time onboard.

A green card can be had rather quickly if all ducks are in-line and I know one can get a MMD with a Green Card but without U.S. Citizenship.
Will MSC hire one without U.S. Citizenship? If they do then it’s a quicker trip to work for MSC, if not it’s 3-5 years for Citizenship: 3 years if married to a U.S. Citizen, 5 years if not marrried to a U.S. Citizen, (at the [U]very [/U]quickest)


#5

Green card??? Work Visa??? It took my friend 10 months plus attorney fees to get his wife US citizenship. They just got it the other week. It was a pain, but did not take 3 years… maybe we are not comparing apples to apples. He was not very happy with the process to say the least.


#6

Look, I’m not going to get into a pissing contest with those that haven’t been through the process and want to pass on heresay info.
An immigrant HAS to live in the US for 3 years of residency to get Citizenship if they are married to US Citizen spouse. It take 5 years of US residency if not married to a US Citizen spouse. The actual processing of paperwork takes less but the residency is required first. I know of no standard exception.

The main question for this forum thread is: will MSC hire folks with a Green Card and a Z-Card but no US Citizenship?


#7

I think the rule, even if foreign nationals have green cards, is 65% of the unlicensed crew is supposed to be US citizens.


#8

Although I’m not a mariner I have some comments to make concerning this discussion which I came across on a google search.
First read the Guam unemployment rates below and then the article after that. Something doesn’t quite match up:confused:

Guam Unemployment rate

<TABLE class=tblrank id=tblrank align=center><TBODY><TR><TH>Year</TH><TH>Unemployment rate</TH><TH>Rank</TH><TH>Percent Change</TH><TH>Date of Information</TH></TR><TR><TD>2003</TD><TD>15.00 %</TD><TD>73</TD><TD> </TD><TD>2000 est.</TD></TR><TR><TD>2004</TD><TD>15.00 %</TD><TD>68</TD><TD>0.00 %</TD><TD>2000 est.</TD></TR><TR><TD>2005</TD><TD>15.00 %</TD><TD>133</TD><TD>0.00 %</TD><TD>2000 est.</TD></TR><TR><TD>2006</TD><TD>11.40 %</TD><TD>113</TD><TD>-24.00 %</TD><TD>2002 est.</TD></TR><TR><TD>2007</TD><TD>11.40 %</TD><TD>126</TD><TD>0.00 %</TD><TD>2002 est.</TD></TR><TR><TD>2008</TD><TD>11.40 %</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Guam to hire 20,000 skilled Filipino workers

Guam will hire more than 20,000 skilled Filipino workers to facilitate the construction of an expanded US military base on that island, the mayor of the US territory’s capital said the other night.
McDonald said it is only practical to hire Filipino workers whom he described as “hardworking, skillful and, most importantly, proficient in English language.”
“Communication and our shared culture are practical reasons why we prefer Filipino workers over other nationalities,” McDonald said in an interview.
(Other nationalities? ummm…like Americans?;))

[U]http://www.articlearchives.com/government-public-administration/government-bodies/145230-1.html[/U]

[B]Guam: Demographics and the Economy[/B]
[B]Food Stamp Program[/B]

Monthly Number of Persons Participating in the Food Stamp Program
November 2008: 29,429



#9

[quote=Jeffrox;10522]
I don’t believe it. Having experienced the process of getting a “Green Card” and U.S. Citizenship recently for my wife, I can report that there are no short-cuts; [/quote]

Actually that’s not true.

What is a "FAST TRACK " Green Card?

A “fast track” green card is an employment-based green card which can be obtained much more quickly than the normal employment-based permanent residence for those who qualify. Expedited processing is available because these green cards do not require a labor certification.

What categories of aliens can qualify?
.
.
Aliens of exceptional ability who have national interest waivers

WHAT IS A NATIONAL INTEREST WAIVER?
A national interest waiver (NIW) is a determination by the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) that an individual alien should not be required to go through the long and somewhat expensive labor certification process because that alien’s work will advance some specific national interest of the United States.

(national interest of the U.S.?:wink: for example…chow hall workers in Iraq?)
https://www.msu.edu/user/learned/Fast%20Track%20GC/niw.html
https://www.msu.edu/user/learned/Fast%20Track%20GC/index.htm


#10

[I]“Aliens of exceptional ability who have national interest waivers”[/I]
I seriously doubt we’re talking about the Stewards Dept on an MSC ship, which was that initial charge. I wrote there were no standard exceptions; I knew there are exceptions but they’re for Scientist and Doctors and not Night Bakers, ABs and Scullery Hands, etc.

BTW, I’ve heard back from a contact at MSC–[B][U]one has to have US Citizenship to be hired by MSC.[/U][/B]

Filipinos are in MSC in vast numbers simply because they network and they are willing to work the long hitches.

As far as that Guam constructiuon story, it seems like a guest worker program. If they’re hiring 20k filipinos it makes sense, it’s a short flight and the other reasons were explained in the story posted. I really can’t invision 20k average US citizens from the lower 48 going to Guam to do construction work. You can bet the “conditions” wont be pretty.

But back to the original charge that Filipinos are paying money in vast numbers to circumvent the US Citizenship laws to take over the Stewards and Supply Depts on MSC ships: it’s a fantasy.:rolleyes:

I’m done with this thread, have fun…:wink:


#11

Makes one wonder whether that top contributor(the one who says he’s through with this thread) is another foreign mariner whose income is not recycled back into the American economy… ?

Obvious that he is like a frog in a well!

Here’s some more factual truth to shatter his innocence (or deceit):

1). MSC breaks its own hiring rule. There are many non-key mariners sailing MSC who lack MMD stating US citizenship now and past.

2). Nowadays, Immigration has tightened up a bit. But the scam is never-ending. DNA testing of all applicants is now required because so many Filippinos have already passed off as fake brothers etc of the ones who got their citizenship the slower way…

3). Many Americans in MSC are now scared to say or do anything about this virus out of fear of reprisal from a foreign mafia.


#12

I suppose that “source” also told you the english language test they give for all entry level personnel is iron clad and impossible to cheat on.:rolleyes:


#13

Re selling the country out (including maritime jobs), Europe started outsourcing its dirty jobs back in the sixties and seventies to foreigners who’d move in and work for less before US followed suit, the same game. And rich at the top let it grow up to take the better jobs over time. Germany clamped down on it back in the late nineties and made them all either give up their foreign citizenship duality or get out of Dodge. They targeted the outflow of the incomes to insure it was recycled back into the German economy and made all sorts of restrictions to that end including even getting the clever foreigners who found ways to beat the system; the cops would spy and get them on even the slightest infraction of law and then deport for something that would not have normally given more than a warning or small fine. Additionally, in shipping, the deck, engineer, and bridge Germans who had been displaced by third world labor in the eighties regained their jobs in the nineties due to losse$ attributed to and associated with the substandard quality of work as performed by same third world labor. The lesson: short-term profit can lead to long-term loss. Since the US followed Europe’s lead on selling country out, maybe it better follow suit to clamp down and $top the outflow. One thing, however, which Europe did not do, that the US has done all on its own is to allow the sell out to spread to government jobs, namely MSC (Military Sealift Command). For example, [FONT=Arial][SIZE=2]when a Promotion Board convenes, the last to know are those on the ships, and the notice comes late about 2 days before the deadline to apply making it impossible, in most cases, to apply. Unqualified applicants for the promotions get them, and it is a well known secret that a certain ethnic detailer readies these illicit sales of jobs and promotions for the ethnic majority in the Steward Dept. Favoritism, nepotism, corruption, abuse of authority, racism, etc, is alive and well in MSC; for example, the Navy and civilian mariners are aware of the MSC Guam hiring fiasco where local Chamorran people, the indigenous people of the US Territory of Guam, could not get the job because there was no equal opportunity for them since they were not a paying member of the ethnic majority of MSC (resident citizens and homeowners of a neighboring third world foreign country who have long used Guam as an enterprising conduit for quickly obtaining a discount green card or even citizenship outright for a price. Many mariners and many Americans, in general, who have experience abroad are aware of the several scams foreigners take advantage of to gain citizenship or a foothold into this country and its economy. The few locals who did manage to get hired there in Guam by MSC then were only able to get the job by going around the corrupt individual of the ethnic majority responsible for doing the MSC hiring and taking their complaint direct to the naval commander there in Guam.). How is it possible that someone who can’t communicate in English without an interpreter qualify to rise to the position of Chief Mate, First Electrician, or Detailer, etc, within MSC? In what other country’s defense infrastructure (government) could a similarity be found? How is it that MSC has a such a large ethnic majority (one that not only outnumbers all other ethnic minorities combined, but also outnumbers black and white American mariners combined, too) in a mix of some naturalized (over-night sometimes) with some who hold MMD stating foreign citizenship (contrary to MSC’s own hiring policy), or even needs such a mercenary and racist ethnic group comprising the majority of crew (which is the case on MSC west coast ships)?? And it is very strange that the majority of a crew sailing under a US flag, the flag of a ship that is property of the United States Navy, speaks fluently in a foreign language yet has serious difficulty understanding and speaking English (At times, this is also a pretext used to get out of doing certain assigned tasks, to the consternation of American supervisors.). And if you belong to the minority of as little as 25% or so of crew who are Americans with American standards on some US naval supply ship, you’d better like the ethnic food and not mind you are being cursed in Tagalog behind your back. And this is a US federal job? Might as well raise the P.I. flag on the ship… This would be a dire shame even if there was no economic crisis with so many Americans out of work now. Is it because they complain less than the American worker? Would the American complain if his MSC paycheck had the same mileage in an economy where the norm is only a few hundred bucks per month? Basically, their income, which is paid at the same rate their American counterparts receive, does not recycle back into the American economy, and they have no patriotic reasons for taking our jobs and performing, in many cases, substandard quality work. There are no Werner von Brauns in their midst to justify any contribution that could not be made by any true American just as well, if not better. Are there not enough American seamen or potential American seamen to fill organizational needs for manning MSC vessels? Has MSC ever even tried to seriously hire the American youth of our country like the military does on a large scale? Does the population of our own country not outnumber that of the ethnic majority’s? US Immigration has tightened up a bit, but the scam is never-ending; we’ve had enough of the ethnic majority’s never-ending circumvention which has led to DNA testing all applicants since they’ve already entered the flood gate en masse passed off as fake brothers etc of those who got their citizenship in other ways, but for every counter-measure, there is always yet another counter. They circumvent MSC’s English exam to get hired and automatically pass MSC’s AB school even though there is nowhere else they’d be able to pass it. None of these nationalistic, patriotic views should be misconstrued as xenophobic to the point that they also reflect on the minority of the ethnic majority who are bona-fide immigrants or those born and bred here in this country, hold property and have family in this country, not only speak our language fluently and refrain from cursing us behind our backs in an unfamiliar tongue, but are those whose entire income is also recycled back into the US economy (whose intention it is to permanently recycle their income back into the US economy since their retirement homes and plans are not outside the US, unlike the majority of the ethnic majority), the ones that make up the minority of the ethnic majority who also abhor (as do the other minorities abhor) the anti-equal opportunity and unethical ways of the majority of the ethnic majority and their involuntary affiliation therewith; this sub-group does exist and is not being referred to here. Although many of us refrain from openly endorsing this view because it is apparently politically incorrect at first glance, no one lets the thin veil trick them into being blinded by what is really going on. It should be noted that all others, including the other various minorities, consider the blatant infiltration and ever-growing monopolization of a federal job like MSC by this racist, mercenary, ethnic majority, whose allegiance is tied strictly to the paycheck, to be an appalling phenomenon, one out of control, that has sadly become normalized over time. Their invasion can only continue to cheat/beat the system “legally” (sic) this way if you, our government, continue to allow their monopolistic growth to continue. Add the antagonistic relations with the ethnic majority on board to the now antagonistic relations with the office in Norfolk, and you have a situation going from bad to worse for many American mariners in MSC. Despite the fact that the majority of American mariners in MSC all feel the same way about this virus, nothing is said or done about it out of fear of reprisal from a foreign mafia that has safe haven here within an agency of the United States government. The President needs to be made very aware of this growing, festering problem that now plaques our peoples’ livelihood here in America, which is nothing short of economic aggression on the part of a foreign invader no matter how legalized via illegality and lethargically condoned it may be. We need a moratorium on the hiring of this ethnic majority of mariners who don’t recycle their income back into the American economy. MSC should be held accountable and forced to hire real Americans in America, stop the corruption, and stop selling us out! Consider the big picture, the sensitive nature of the job and inherent risks of operating a US naval supply ship, and then consider how, for example, money, as a matter of fact, could buy the use of Philippino labor last year to run stolen ships for the Somalian pirates! Urge all concerned to copy/paste this, contribute more in backing, and send it to the President ([/SIZE][/FONT][U][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0000ff]www.whitehouse.gov/contact[/U][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2] or snail-mail it to The White House, 1600 Pennsylvania Ave NW, Washington DC 20500) and to their senators and congressmen as well.
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