I am currently preparing to test for Great Lakes Pilotage. The chart sketches I am not overly concerned about. The Local Knowledge portion is another matter. I know the questions come from the Coast Pilot, but I don’t think study of the Coast Pilot is a effective way to prepare for such a large area, we are talking about hundreds of pages. It seems to me the question bank must exist somewhere, but have not had much luck on that front. Anyone have a lead on that or some other advice?
Seriously? Doesn’t mason have the questions? I graduated three years ago and when I took it, I had every question asked all the way back to1990. Mason gave us the packet when we started license prep. They ask the same questions over and over. The local knowledge is the easiest part of the test, just read over the questions a few times just before you take it, presto you get 100%. I hate to say it but if you have no clue what I’m talking about then some idiot screwed it up for everyone and the coast guard changed their test. Good luck!
I don’t go to GLMA, I’m a hawsepiper. I have my doubts about calling up there and expecting them to give me anything, but what you describe is exactly what I expected to be able to do.
Oh sorry man, I just assumed. I’m working until Wednesday, but when I get home I’ll look around to see if I have that packet and I’ll send it to you. If i don’t have them, i can get ahold of them somehow if you’d like. But I’m sure they would have no problem sending them to you, ask for bob mason, he does everything with pilotage. Honestly you are screwed without the questions, some of the questions are so off the wall. One example that I can remember, what is the controlling depth of the ( I forget the name of the STREAM) … Answer… 7ft. A lot of questions a very specific with numbers asking heights of overhead cables, or channel widths, or maximum depth of the lakes. Other questions are super easy like asking for the predominant winds in the fall or what VHF channel is for the VTS. Anyway, good luck
Good luck. Some of this stuff seems overwhelming but keep your head up and chug along.
GLMAscott,
I know Bob Mason retired a year or two ago. He taught a radar class I took there a number of years ago, I think it must have been in '08. I think i’m going to call up there, I really have nothing to loose by doing so. Any idea who might have replaced him? Always helps to have a name.
I know someone who did it without the questions. He made an outline of each chapter of the coast pilot and studied the hell out of it, and passed. I’m sure I could pull that off if I had no other choice, but it seems to be a really piss poor way to spend study time.
Thanks in advance for looking thru your stuff for it.
He’s still there, hasn’t retired yet. He teaches lakes piloting and a guy by the name John Biolchini teaches river piloting. From what I heard from guys who tested last month the local knowledge questions were even more ridiculous than they were prepared for. Like Scott said, questions about lakes that aren’t even accessible by anything larger than a canoe and their depths. I’m sure if you called they would be more than willing to help you out.
The staff is really small too, when I went there there were only two full time teachers for the deck department, bob mason and mike surgalski. I heard of this bowl a chili guy, I guess he’s gearing up to take the masons spot. But anyway, it doesn’t matter who you talk to in the deck department, they will help you out and will know what your asking for. Just don’t ask for the superintendent, I hear bad things about him.
What is this First Class Pilot Licence entitled you to pilot !!!
I think there is First Class Pilot Licence and First Class Pilot Licence … because to get my First Class Pilot Licence, you need …
- an approved nautical college degree (4 years)
- a master licence
- a minimum of 24 months of sea time on vessels subject to compulsory pilotage
- 24 months of pilotage apprenticeship
- all kinds of studies on simulators and classrooms followed by examinations
- written and oral examinations before a panel of First Class Pilots, Coast Guards and maritime professionals
- 8 years of pilotage time to get a fully First Class Pilot Licence
Not that easy … 
In the US, the term “Pilot” means different things, under different circumstances, in different places. There are federal pilots, and state pilots. There are bar pilots, river pilots, and docking pilots.
To get a license as a federal, i.e. USCG licensed, First Class Pilot one needs certain amount of qualifying seatime ( as I recall its 1440 days for a near coastal route) and a certain number of trips (typically 20) over each pilotage route applied for. The license exam is about the same as 1600 ton master. Then one must " write pilotage" for the route ( draw in all the aids to navigation, courses and distances, and so on, for the route.
On the Mississippi River and its tributaries the “pilot” is the term they use for mate. I will let someone else describe how the term pilot is used on the Great Lakes.
Often ferry pilots will have worked up from deckhand on one particular ferry.
Most, if not all, bar pilots and harbor pilots (who bring in ships) are required to have state pilot licenses in addition to federal licenses. Typically, the state pilots control the qualifications and the state Board of Pilotage. The most essential qualification is to a have relative who is a pilot. Most of these state pilotage systems are run on nepotism, cronyism and corruption. Others only admit very highly qualified applicants with substantial seagoing experience on unlimited tonnage vessels.
Some places have separate docking pilots that control the tugs and land and sail the ships. Typically these docking pilots are supplied by the tug companies and are former tug masters. As far as I understand it, they only have federal pilot licenses.
I am sure others here will have better local knowledge about what is required to become a pilot in various places.
[QUOTE=“Topsail;98292”]What is this First Class Pilot Licence entitled you to pilot !!!
I think there is First Class Pilot Licence and First Class Pilot Licence … because to get my First Class Pilot Licence, you need …
- an approved nautical college degree (4 years)
- a master licence
- a minimum of 24 months of sea time on vessels subject to compulsory pilotage
- 24 months of pilotage apprenticeship
- all kinds of studies on simulators and classrooms followed by examinations
- written and oral examinations before a panel of First Class Pilots, Coast Guards and maritime professionals
- 8 years of pilotage time to get a fully First Class Pilot Licence
Not that easy … [/QUOTE]
I think you are mixing up requirements for 2 different things. This thread is about Federal pilotage issued by the USCG, which only entitles the holder to pilot U.S. flag vessels engaged in domestic trade. The additional requirements you describe sound like State pilotage requirements from one of the coastal States. A State pilot license permits the holder to pilot foreign flag vessels as well as U.S. flag vessels in foreign trade.
There are several different pilot tests/licenses. One for every river and lake. I have three rivers, Detroit, st Mary’s, and st Clair, and all five lakes, which is the minimum to work as a mate on the lakes. There is a few extras like the welland canel, a few smaller rivers, and of course the st Lawrence sea way.
Every pilot association has its own requirements on what you need to become a pilot on that body of water. For the Great Lakes all you need is a mates license with no sea time on the license but you do need 12 round trips on each river and three trips on the lakes, which can be done while you are unlicensed/cadet.
I’ve had Great Lakes Pilotage for a few years now. The tests do get switched up every couple of years. GLMA was helpful and did give me a list of questions from previous tests even though I wasn’t a student there… I think the local knowledge questions were written up by desk sailors who’ve never been on a bloody boat. Read the Coast Pilot thoroughly. Again and again. Also get the Canadian versions bercause the coast guard lies and they DO ask about Canadian waters. For instance, if you are looking at a 308 degree range, what port are you at? Also read the Black Rock Canal chapter as you will have at least one question on the Lake Erie test even though you can’t travel the canal without Black Rock Pilotage. The idiot broad who was running the test when I sat told me, “Its in the Lake Erie chapter.”
Sorry but these requirements are totally ridiculous and are an outrage to the title of First Class Pilot License. I would call it a hope for the best permit to try to drive a ship.
[QUOTE=“Topsail;98302”]Sorry but these requirements are totally ridiculous and are an outrage to the title of First Class Pilot License. I would call it a hope for the best permit to try to drive a ship.[/QUOTE]
Topsail, the USCG 1st class pilot endorsement is similar to what is known in the rest of the world as a"pilotage exemption certificate." State pilots generally consider it equivalent to a learner’s permit.
[QUOTE=fullbell;98305]Topsail, the USCG 1st class pilot endorsement is similar to what is known in the rest of the world as a"pilotage exemption certificate." State pilots generally consider it equivalent to a learner’s permit.[/QUOTE]
You are totally right. There’s a world between a ‘‘pilotage exemption certificate’’ and a ‘‘First Class Pilotage License’’. If we talk about a ‘‘pilotage exemption certificate’’, please don’t employ the term ‘‘First Class Pilotage License’’. The first one is for an officer duly signed on the article of a specific vessel whereas the second one as no limit. Big difference …
[QUOTE=Topsail;98307]You are totally right. There’s a world between a ‘‘pilotage exemption certificate’’ and a ‘‘First Class Pilotage License’’. If we talk about a ‘‘pilotage exemption certificate’’, please don’t employ the term ‘‘First Class Pilotage License’’. The first one is for an officer duly signed on the article of a specific vessel whereas the second one as no limit. Big difference …[/QUOTE]
While I agree with you in spirit, the reality in the US is that the USCG only issues one kind of pilots license, and it is called First Class Pilot.
It use to be that most limited tonnage master and mate licenses were considered to automatically include pilotage authority for limited tonnage vessels, and were only issued for very limited local routes where the applicant had actual experience. Not so anymore.
[QUOTE=GLMAscott;98299]There are several different pilot tests/licenses. One for every river and lake. I have three rivers, Detroit, st Mary’s, and st Clair, and all five lakes, which is the minimum to work as a mate on the lakes. There is a few extras like the welland canel, a few smaller rivers, and of course the st Lawrence sea way.
Every pilot association has its own requirements on what you need to become a pilot on that body of water. For the Great Lakes all you need is a mates license with no sea time on the license but you do need 12 round trips on each river and three trips on the lakes, which can be done while you are unlicensed/cadet.[/QUOTE]
Its the minimum, depending on how you look at at. The CG allows 1 of the 3 mates on a Laker to not have pilotage although the steamboat companies try to not do that. Further, it isn’t required at all on ATBs.
[QUOTE=“Topsail;98307”]
You are totally right. There’s a world between a ‘‘pilotage exemption certificate’’ and a ‘‘First Class Pilotage License’’. If we talk about a ‘‘pilotage exemption certificate’’, please don’t employ the term ‘‘First Class Pilotage License’’. The first one is for an officer duly signed on the article of a specific vessel whereas the second one as no limit. Big difference …[/QUOTE]
In the USA, they are one and the same. The “big difference” in terms of training and qualifications in the USA is between “USCG 1st class pilotage” and a “State licensed pilot”.
[QUOTE=“fullbell;98362”]
In the USA, they are one and the same. The “big difference” in terms of training and qualifications in the USA is between “USCG 1st class pilotage” and a “State licensed pilot”.[/QUOTE]
Actually it is not as clear cut at this conversation. From my understanding a ‘pilot exemption certificate’ is only valid on ONE particular vessel, on a given body of water, only obtainable for vessels UNDER a specific tonnage.
In the US a FCP endorsement is valid on all vessels (subject to a tonnage or class (tug versus ship) limit) Generally ALL FCP endorsements are unlimited tonnage though. The FCP exam requires an intimate knowledge of the charted waters, as well as actually drawing the chart from memory, and local knowledge, and between 20 and 12 trips under instruction. In reality, a candidate for pilot usually has between 20 to 200 trips prior to being ‘unleashed’ as a Federally licensed pilot. Of course there are a few who are ‘house pilots’ for a specific company or on part time basis to the state organizations (to do the ‘lowly’ domestic work that is called for).
In the US the real ‘bull in the china shop’ is State Pilotage. From my deciphering, approximately 40% of the State Pilot Organizations use a method of trips, tonnage, and unlimited license experience to accept (or deny) a potential candidate. Some (Very few) want a new candidate to have -0- trips, licenses, and experience. The idea seems to be they want a Pilot with NO preconceived notions of what they should do. They want to completely indoctrinate a new hire Pilot. From this it is obvious to an Independent thinker that the concensus is NOT about a specific training regulation or formula, but what the ‘Powers that be’ wan tto enforce to regulate membership and price. So the notion the just because one is a State Pilot is NOT synonymous with a higher standard of professional competence. I have seen evidence of this, visa vis, The Bay bridge incident(s), The Sunshine Skyway balsa38 incident, the QEII Vineyard Sound incident, and The Bulkhead bar Delaware river Sea Pride 2 incident. Even the ‘sepulcher’ of State pilot organizations has incidents which only confirm human error. As much as we want to think we should all demand perfection, it is unattainable under all circumstances. However, some organizations feel they have such good vetting process’ that there will never be incidents when ‘they’ are in command. Too bad it doesn’t quite owrk out that way. To my mind, the realistic pilot organizations are the other 55% who actually vet the individuals and see what they can do, versus what their licens says. Common sense does prevail (percentage wise) But it appears the most vocal are the organizations that ardently self promote and self serve their own interests (Not necessarily what is best for the State, but what is best for the organization)
Now on the the 500 pound gorilla in Domestic US waters: Persons “Acting as FCP”. On limited tonnage vessels (in the US), a licensed master or mate can ‘ACT as Pilot’ when serving aboard vessels UNDER 1600GT. So for vesels over 300GT that must have a pilot on ‘Pilot Waters’ as described in the US Code, as long as the vessel is UNDER 1600GT a licensed individual aboard can ‘Act as Pilot’ providing they meet ‘recency’. The whole issue with this is, a Towing Vessel (under 300GT) can move any barge (up to 9,999GT) with NO pilotage! So if this was a Ship, it would require an actual FCP aboard. But since it has a Tug and Barge, no actual Pilot is needed, and the operators can ‘Act as Pilot’ instead! Go figure.