powerabout, you and a few more fellows and ladies have a lot more knowledge than I do. It does boggle my mind that in this day and time it comes down to a laptop upgrade to fly a plane safely
There is a lot more to it than a “laptop upgrade.”
All the information they needed was available to the Ethiopian crew. They were not trained to use it and their minds were boggled because they were taught to fly monkey fashion.
Your fear of flying is irrelevant.
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Irrrelevant to you sir, not to me. Flew for 30 years or so, glad I don’t have to do it anymore.When the 737’s come back out , be my guest to jump on board. Perhaps with all your pull, you will get a first class seat and be the the first to see the early landing.
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It is irrelevant to the topic and the conversation. It adds nothing to anyone’s understanding of the issue under discussion, it is just a bit of background noise. No one is asking you to fly anywhere on anything or asking why you do or don’t.
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The topic was 737’s. Invited you to be the first passenger. And first class ot course,
Has “deep sea diver” returned to haunt us?
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I’m sure you may be decent fellow if met in person. What’s your handicap?
my buddy was disgusted with how it was handled by both Boeing and the Airlines, but dont forget thats what they wanted.
The cheap arse part was the simulators where not upgraded ( thats what they wanted) so you couldnt even show the pilots what might happen and what you should do.
Meanwhile the FAA was closed due to holidays right at that time… how unlucky was that
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Good that you have inside knowledge regarding the airlines,I don’t. We just celebarated 1300 miles on our 1 year old SUV due to the pandemic. Ain’t flying or cruising anywhere. My victory garden is kicking ass. My bear dog continues to protect us. Kinda on topic, but maybe not.
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“Everybody” knows that only Aussies and Americans can pilot planes. Everybody else are “beginners” and haven’t got a clue.
Worse still, the pilots here were Asian and Africans. What more can I say? (To be sure: Sarcasm)
They were open long enough to approve a plane that proved not to be suitable for the use it was intended for and the people who were going to fly it. (Incompetent people according to you and your buddy)
Maybe that was unlucky.
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Oh lord, I had forgotten about him 
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Well not sure about “all the information” being available. The existence of MCAS was itself kept a secret.
There were multiple warnings and alarms to distract the crews. As someone else noted, at one point (Nov. 2012) a Boeing test pilot did not react fast enough to uncommanded MCAS activation so as to prevent a catastrophic failure. Maybe his mind was boggled? Flying “monkey” style? Or could it be the situation was inherently confusing?
Let us know when you find the source for that claim and please describe or define “catastrophic failure.”
The Lion Air crew discovered that the aircraft was controllable when flaps were selected, they observed that fact twice before retracting flaps and losing control.
The Ethiopian crew never reduced power from takeoff and continued to accelerate beyond their ability to manually trim.
A 200 hour first officer doesn’t even know enough to be confused.
That is a fair description of monkey flying, they lacked the experience and training to think for themselves. That is a well documents and probably overly debated fact of modern airline crew training.
I take it that’s 200 hours in type. I’d be curious to know if he had any other type ratings and what his total flight time was.
You are correct, he had 200 hours on the 737 (56 on the Max) and a total time of around 360 hours.
Confusion requires some knowledge of what to expect vs what is happening. The power setting alone indicates the crew were passengers for most of the short flight between rotation and impact.
If that is what is being reported as total flight hours, it means that at the time of the crash he had accumulated 360 hrs since his intro flight in a C-172. I can’t make sense of that.
I didn’t know that monkeys could fly. Only in America??
And American pilots can fly without experience, or training?
I know Norwegians claim to be “born with skis on their feet”, but I didn’t know that Americans were born with wings. (??)
Come off it. Boeing got caught trying to cut corners to save money.
Too bad that it took two crashes and several hundred innocent lives before the rest of the world said enough is enough. (FAA did not) they tried to cover their own asses)
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Let’s cut to the chase here. The intention of an aircraft manufacturer should be to design a commercial aircraft that doesn’t require Chuck Yeager to fly it and nor should it require advanced computer systems with limited sensors to keep it in the air.
The latter approach may work for military aircraft but this was sold as a larger capacity and more economical version of an aircraft that had a long and trouble free history throughout the world as a short haul jet and was a seamless upgrade.
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You design for the aircrews you have, not the aircrews you wish you had. Boeing knew exactly what kinds of people were flying their airplanes, and they chose to ignore that fact and misrepresent the characteristics of the aircraft. Actually, that statement gives them too much credit, because it implies that they were capable of achieving an intent. The McBoeing gang chose financial engineering over real engineering and the resulting hodgepodge organization produced a hodgepodge aircraft, which was totally unsuited for its mission.
Earl
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There is no sense to it so don’t feel bad if you can’t grasp the concept of zero to hero.