Do you know how to use it? Do you keep current? Do you know how to calibrate it? Are you competent enough to certify safe for entry?
I ask, because it appears that there is a difference between what i expected, and what is practiced. How is this done around the coast? No names, just info if you have time.
Thanks
[QUOTE=cappy208;120930]Do you know how to use it? Do you keep current? Do you know how to calibrate it? Are you competent enough to certify safe for entry? [/QUOTE]
Yes, deep-sea we have to keep this stuff at 100%. Testing equipment is used on a routine basis for inspections of ballast and opening and cleaning various other tanks in the E/R . All the paperwork has to be filled out properly etc.
The main error people make is not checking the oxygen content of the atmosphere before using the explosivemeter. Most explosivemeters burn the sample and an oxygen deficient atmosphere will cause the sample to burn cooler or not at all. The pumpman who died on that Sabine ship years back worked for me on a Keystone Tanker in the mid 90’s. I never went into a tank without an O2/explosive meter and a cricket (personal 02 meter clip on) and tank entry permit. Fred might have been alive today if he paid attention to what we did back then.
I find the most common problem with my company is the lack of cal gas as a standard to test against.
Then there’s the old method of pump the water out and it will be full of fresh air (glad those days are gone)
[QUOTE=boatengineer;120949]I find the most common problem with my company is the lack of cal gas as a standard to test against.
Then there’s the old method of pump the water out and it will be full of fresh air (glad those days are gone)[/QUOTE]
And to go with it, fill it up to overflowing, then dump it all out, total change of air. BTDT!
Yeah, I see how the times change. Paperwork changes. But the job is the same!
I was chatting with a guy I worked with 30 years ago, and he mentioned that he tests the ballast tanks each load. I asked how often he calibrates. I got a blank stare back. So this made me wonder. So. who assures competence for a gas chemist to give a hot work permit or a permit for entry? Do YOU have the same level of training, and certification as a gas chemist? I personally don’t feel either competent enough OR should be the one responsible for 'authorizing tank entry. I don’t do it enough. But, due to the companies infrequent ‘training’ I am considered competent. Where does the truth lie?
[QUOTE=boatengineer;120949]I find the most common problem with my company is the lack of cal gas as a standard to test against.
[/QUOTE]
This can be a constant uphill battle unless everyone, both shipboard and shore side treat it as a high priority.
If you can’t get correct calibration equipment aboard order a second meter and send the old one ashore for calibration.
[QUOTE=cappy208;120952] I personally don’t feel either competent enough OR should be the one responsible for 'authorizing tank entry. I don’t do it enough. But, due to the companies infrequent ‘training’ I am considered competent. Where does the truth lie?[/QUOTE]
There are two things to consider. Do you know the tank is safe [B][U]and[/U][/B] have you carried out the proper procedures?
For example if you pump the water out a full ballast tank with two manhole entries and run a blower or two long enough for good ventilation chances are it’s safe. If you also then carry out the required tests in accordance with your SMS (Safety Management System) you should be ok.
If you are not confident the tank is OK don’t rely upon your procedures alone. Just stay out.
TBSIG mentions the “Cricket” the small wearable meter/alarm. I like those as well, a “deep tank” might have pockets of bad air that the meter at the manhole level misses.
One company that I worked for put one of these on each vessel. It did not take too long for them to come out and say that we could only use them to recheck the tanks after a Chemist passed them. A lot of the guys that I worked with would not use them as they were worried about the calibration and also the legal aspect of being the person that passed a tank as Safe For Men but had someone Die.
[QUOTE=Tugs;120961] A lot of the guys that I worked with would not use them as they were worried about the calibration and also the legal aspect of being the person that passed a tank as Safe For Men but had someone Die.[/QUOTE]
And therein lies the rub. Although I am trained and certificated, I don’t feel I get enough rep3tition to maintain competence. Thus my original question. I feel like I (an quite a few others) are not up to the ‘safe for entry’ call. Out of lack of confidence, as opposed to confidence. Although some would say, that is part of being the Master. Some things I am not going to do. this is one of them. There’s a difference between checking a ballast tank between loads, or sniffing a deep tank prior to entry.
I have spent more time than I’d like to count reading up on blower configurations and reading incident reports about pockets of dead air which the meter, dropped straight down the hatch, didn’t catch. As a result I think the old method is a good idea and one I have always tried to implement (In addition to air exchanges via a properly configured blower!!) before entering ballast tanks
I write this because I think we are often quick to dismiss the old practices and replace them with the new ones. I’m not saying that the old practices were safer (I would never enter a tank just because it was recently pressed up and discharged), I only say this because many of the old methods have some value (or else they would never have been used) and can, at times, be used in conjunction with modern methods to increase the factor of safety.
In practice I don’t do this (press-up/discharge AND blow out the all space before entering) on all tank inspections but I do utilize both methods if, after consulting the tank diagram, I find some awkward spaces (like a crawl space) that I have any doubts about the fresh air from the blower being able to reach.
[QUOTE=Tugs;120961] A lot of the guys that I worked with would not use them as they were worried about the calibration and also the legal aspect of being the person that passed a tank as Safe For Men but had someone Die.[/QUOTE]
When I was C/M I never had to worry about having someone else having problems in a tank I tested as I was the one who went in after I tested it. I also had the blowers set up and run the way I wanted them.
Tank configuration is a key factor. A wing tank with a manhole at each end can be blown out relatively quickly. On the other hand I wouldn’t go any deeper into a deep tank then I could reach with my test hose. On the deep tanks I’ve been in you could enter and then test the lower levels from inside. It’s not uncommon to have lower percentage of 02 at the bottom even after blowing on them for hours.
I’m just happy as a pig that my days of tank diving have been over for a while. Had too many close calls during my 15 years on tankers and bulk carriers. I hate going in tanks!
About 30 years ago after many workboat companies went out of business, a good friend was killed while looking to pick up some repos at a shipyard near Houma. The story I heard was he opened the liquid mud tanks for inspection. The tanks appeared to be clean but rusted. Blowers with ducts dropped into the tanks and ventilated overnight. The next day he inspected the tanks. I’m not sure of what safety equipment he had. (probably none at that time.)He had a rent-a-wino standing watch at the tank hatch. On the last of 4 tanks, there was a layer of dried liquid mud near the suction. As he broke through the top crust, H2S gas was released and he was overcome. The rent-a-wino was seen entering the tank. Someone checked a couple of hours later and found both of them dead.
H2S odor threshold is above the leathal dose threashold.You would never know what hit you. We loaded high H2S crude in Mexico and seagulls fell out of the sky when they flew over the vent mast riser. We had a tug keeping us at a 45 angle to the wind. H2S stops your heart and at least quick way to die. Nasty stuff was dropped off at a Coastal Refinery in Corpus.
I was a competent person for a year or so. We would be rushed to get all the tanks checked before first shift began (this was a shipyard). I hated it. I crawled every tank, alone, on my assigned ships but I believe some of my colleagues skipped tanks here and there. Always be careful when entering a tank, even if it’s been open for days. Conditions can change. Also beware of work going on in sewage rooms and pump rooms. Three men died on the carrier Truman after work in a sewage pump room sent H2S into the space. A sewage pipe thought to be empty, was not.
Testing ballast tanks for entry for routine inspection on your own vessel requires a level of expertise that is attainable by most crews. If you are on a tanker and have to enter cargo tanks, that requires knowledge of the specific cargoes carried and more expertise. However if your going to enter tanks on unfamiliar vessels presumably you’re being paid for a higher level of expertise. Staying safe requires you obtain the level of knowledge needed.
[QUOTE=injunear;120974]About 30 years ago after many workboat companies went out of business, a good friend was killed while looking to pick up some repos at a shipyard near Houma. The story I heard was he opened the liquid mud tanks for inspection. The tanks appeared to be clean but rusted. Blowers with ducts dropped into the tanks and ventilated overnight. The next day he inspected the tanks. I’m not sure of what safety equipment he had. (probably none at that time.)He had a rent-a-wino standing watch at the tank hatch. On the last of 4 tanks, there was a layer of dried liquid mud near the suction. As he broke through the top crust, H2S gas was released and he was overcome. The rent-a-wino was seen entering the tank. Someone checked a couple of hours later and found both of them dead.[/QUOTE]
Yes, that is a very dangerous situation there. Any type of solids in a tank cannot be touched without full air on. We generally use pump style gas detectors, for initial testing to get to the bottom of the tank (of course 24 hours of FORCED ventilation). We do both hatches, one that has the ladder for access, the other is the rescue hatch where the tripod and rescue equipment is set up, and has unobstructed path to the bottom with litter. Two personnel usually enter, which is policy (unless you have a visual with the attendant). We each have a gas detector on, body harness, escape breathing device, and full SCBAs are lowered on the tripod if needed. Communications with the attendant takes place once per minute.
As far as who tests the tank, we have dedicated personnel that are trained on board. The work plan is made (sec.1), permit to work started, isolation certificate made by competent person; person that is qualified to test the tank reviews the plan and isolation certificate, tank is tested - all is entered on PTW. Team then completes work plan (sec.2), PTW is given to Area Authority and OIM for final authorization. Once all paperwork is signed, rescue teams are put on notice, and bridge is notified. Entry commences. After the entry, you complete the plan, lessons learned, etc…
Competent gas detector course is 4hrs by MSA. We send each gas detector off one per year for bench calibration by the manufacture, plus the new ones also self diagnose during start-up (which we use), but we alway use up-to-date calibration gas as third check to ensure equipment is good before using.
Having spent 10 years as a Class surveyor gave me tons of experience in tank diving. I NEVER got comfortable with it. If I felt a tank was NOT safe for entry (and that meant having been tested properly), I would not enter. The first couple of years as a surveyor, I was a bit cavalier about it. If I had questions about a ballast tank, and there was no equipment onboard, I would make sure that I wasn’t the first one in the tank. Now, I only used that method on bulker upper wing tanks, but only for one or two vessels. I got to the point where if the tank was not verified to be safe to enter, the vessel was slapped with an incomplete survey and a condition of class until the tank COULD be entered safely. Too many surveyors are killed tank diving. I have been around too many vessels when bodies have had to be fished out of tanks. Not a pleasant experience to be sure.
Eventually, ABS started to train all of us to get our Competent Person certificate. There are times that I have to enter spaces for my current employ, at least when the manhole is large enough to allow entry.
Just finished a two day competent person refresher course. Included confined space rescue
I’m trying to get my company to send me to this training. Where did you take it ?