A friend is a 2nd mate and got a DUI last week. It was the first time he has ever been arrested and he only had a few beers that night. Anyone know what the CG will do to his license?
Why would you risk your career for a few glasses of brew?! Next time <strong>get a cab!</strong>
Probably nothing first time. Whatever punishment is handed down by the courts will have to be shown to the Coast Guard as proof of fulfilling his court ordered requirement. He will have to show proof that the case was resolved. He should get a good lawyer that specializes in DUI’s and try to get it taken off his record. Explain the ramifications of a DUI on his specific career and hopefully have a simpethetic judge. I know people who have gotten DUI’s, one got 2, and they never lost anything. Each case is different. I think the main thing is to be upfront and honest with the Coast Guard. I have never personally had to deal with this.
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt]<span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt]<span style="font-family: Times New Roman;]When I was going to the Academy, there was a guy that got a DUI right after passing the 3<SUP>rd</SUP> Mates test. The Coast Guard refused to give him his license. That also meant he couldn’t graduate!!! <span style="mso-spacerun: yes] </span>I’ve heard you can have a hell of a time renewing or upgrading after that. I’m pretty sure you have to wait 5 years. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = “urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office” /><o:p></o:p></span></span></P>
<P>I have a few friends that have a had to deal with this. One, get an attorney that specializes in this like Capt. Lee said. Two, be upfront, when the USCG starts askign questions, answer them and don’t be an ass and try to be “that guy the slipped through”, it never works. Also, I don’t think anything will happen as far the USCG is concerned until he trys to renew or upgrade. So, he will have a few years to stockpile some money to be ready for a suspension or anything else that may come his way. For a first time offense and for a DUI that was only just over the limit I have heard that it isn’t too bad to deal with… I think the most important thing to do is get a good attorney,look around and see if you can find an attorney who has defended mariners with DUIs before.<br><br>And Mike22, how about some understanding. We have all gotten behind the wheel after a few too many and been lucky enough to get away with it. There are no angels or virgins in this industry.</P>
I just had a Coast Guard Marine Investigator come in as a guest speaker in one of my classes. He stated that due to the USCG shift to Homeland Security they were tied in with law enforcement databases. He stated that NMC would know within a week of the conviction and would suspend your credentials at a minimum until you complete all court requirements and got your drivers license back. Essentially the way the CFR reads is that if you cannot have a drivers license you cannot have a mariner license.
I have one friend who got a DWI while at the Academy and got his 3rd mate’s license without much of a problem but then he got another one during leave from his 2/m job (yes he has a problem) and decided it would be easier to get a shoreside job than try to fight the CG. I don’t have specific details but I do know he hasn’t sailed since.
The marine investigator who spoke to my class also stated that due to the new alignment with homeland security, the FBI has been randomly grabbing mariner records and putting them through their system to find criminal histories previously undetected or unreported.
Wow, Doc and John, I had not heard all that. I believe it though, jeez all these background checks and security and I still get my balls busted every time I fly to a ship…What BS! I can’t imagine why we can’t get young people to sail anymore, no port time, tons of paperwork, the USCG bureaucracy, criminalization of mariners, and declining quality of contracts… Glad, I just got a shore job.
<span class="header]<strong>Coast Guard Slow to Learn of Pilot’s DUI</strong></span><br>
<span class="bodytext]Source: Associated Press/AP Online
<br>Publication date: 2008-04-10<br>
</span><span class="bodytext]WASHINGTON - The Coast Guard didn’t know for nine months about a DUI
conviction against the pilot of the freighter that caused a giant oil
spill in the San Francisco Bay last fall.
<br> Under agency regulations that remain in effect, the pilot,
Capt. John Cota, didn’t have to disclose the February 1999 conviction
until his mariner’s license was up for its regular five-year renewal.
That wasn’t until the following November, according to testimony at a
congressional hearing Thursday.
<br> At that point Cota disclosed the conviction and surrendered
his mariner’s license for a short period while completing an Alcoholics
Anonymous course. By January 2000 he was deemed physically fit to start
piloting ships again.
<br> Lawmakers questioned why it wasn’t mandatory for pilots to
disclose such convictions immediately, get treatment and then be
monitored for compliance.
<br> Rep. Elijah Cummings, D-Md., who chairs the House
Transportation subcommittee that oversees the Coast Guard, noted that a
pilot could be convicted of drunken driving right after getting his
mariner’s license renewed and not have to report it for more than four
years.
<br> “Do you think that’s right?” Cummings asked Coast Guard Rear
Adm. Brian Salerno. “It seems like it just goes against what you’re
trying to accomplish here.”
<br> “It does concern me that that could happen. Unfortunately the
way the regulations are constructed that’s the system we have,” Salerno
replied.
<br> Coast Guard officials requested that Cota surrender his
license again last December after a closer look at his medical file
revealed that in addition to an apparent diagnosis of alcoholism he
took prescription pills to treat ailments from sleep apnea to glaucoma
to depression.
<br> By then Cota had already piloted a 900-foot container ship
into a support pillar of the San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge. The Nov.
7 crash in heavy fog poured 53,000 gallons of oil into the bay’s
fragile ecosystem. Cota has pleaded not guilty to federal civil
charges.
<br> Marine pilots don’t work for the Coast Guard but are licensed
by the agency and board ships in local waters to navigate them in and
out of port. The Coast Guard instituted new rules even before the Cosco
Busan crash to more closely monitor pilots’ medical fitness, but
Salerno said after the hearing that there was no current proposal to
require mandatory reporting of drug or alcohol convictions. Cummings
said that should happen.
<br> The debate came as the Homeland Security Department released
an audit that said that none of three accident investigators sent to
the site of last November’s spill had fulfilled all the qualifying
requirements for their jobs. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, a San
Francisco Democrat, called that “disconcerting.”
<br> Resulting problems including failure to conduct timely drug
and alcohol tests could impede attempts to determine the probable cause
of the accident, the report said, though the errors were mostly later
corrected or didn’t appear too consequential.
<br> Salerno told lawmakers he also was disturbed by the findings
about the failure to dispatch fully qualified personnel, which showed
Coast Guard rules hadn’t been followed, and he promised to correct the
problems.
<br> The inspector general report did address some of the more controversial charges made in the wake of the accident.
<br> Contradicting claims made by Cota’s attorneys, the audit
concluded that the Coast Guard’s Vessel Traffic Service could not have
prevented the accident. The report said VTS personnel fulfilled their
duties when they questioned Cota about his course but didn’t warn him
he was about to crash.
<br> The report also said that though the size of the spill was
initially wildly underestimated at 140 gallons, that did not affect
attempts to stem the damage, as some local officials have charged.<br></span>
IF the guy is up-front with the USCG there should not be a problem. He should get an attorney only if he thinks he can get the charges reduced. The USCG has for years run all license holders thru the NDR [National Drivers Registry] and all charges whether one is convicted or not will show up so there’s no hiding from it. The USCG, in my experience, is realistic about a DUI charge and a first offense is normally not anything that raises a big red flag IF you are honest with them. I had a first assistant who go a DUI and it turned up when he went to renew. He had told them about it on his questionaire and they wanted to know the disposition of the case, current driving license status [it was suspended] and whether he had completed all the court requirements. He gave them copies of all his court documents and they were happy. There are CFRs that govern these things and the USCG goes by them, a call to the proper person at the NMC should answer all his questions. <br>There’s precious few folks who haven’t put themselves at risk of a DUI at some point in their life !<br>Tengineer
Here is a CFR link that may help. It deals with the Merchant Mariner’s Document but the MMD is currently the key to everything. It has been the policy applied to license holders renewing or upgrading.<br><br><a title=“46 Code of Regulations 12.02-4(D)” href="http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/16nov20071500/edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2007/octqtr/pdf/46cfr12.02-4.pdf]http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/16nov20071500/edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2007/octqtr/pdf/46cfr12.02-4.pdf<strongr style="font-family: yui-tmp;]<br>In case I did not encode that correctly, you want to go to 46 CFR 12.02-4(D) It’s a table and surprisingly clear. <br><br>The issue will come up when you want to renew or upgrade. There is no requirement to report the event to the USCG before then. <br><br>But as so many have already said, it’s important to get the legal part dispensed with expeditiously.<br><br><br><br>
Despite my best effort this site is actually doing fairly well and thus we’ve been getting requests from the press to comment. They usually trickle in at about 1 request per week but in the past 3 days I’ve recieved 6… all asking about John Cota’s DUI 10 years ago and what part his alcohol problem played in the Cosco Busan incident. Of course my response is none but that’s not a popular answer with reports looking for a Exxon Valdez sized headline (not that that had anything to do with alcohol either). Their other question is about the medication he was taking <A href="http://www.efluxmedia.com/news_NTSB_Blames_Pilots_Medication_and_Alcohol_Use_for_SF_Oil_Spill_16192.html]which included</A>:<br><br><br><span id=intelliTXT name="intelliTxt]
<P class=MsoNormal><EM>According to his doctor, the list of prescription drugs Cota was taking in 2007 or had taken in the past included Provigil (to fight drowsiness), Valium, as sleep aid, Lorazepam, an anti-anxiety drug, Darvon Compound-65, a narcotic pain reliever, Wellbutrin, an anti-depressant, Aciflux for heartburn, Lipidor for high cholesterol, Alphagan for glaucoma, Imitrex, a migraine drug, Synthroid for thyroid deficiency and Potassium citrate for kidney stones.</EM><?xml:namespace prefix = o /><o:p><EM> <br></EM></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><EM>Side effects of these drugs include confusion, agitation, dizziness or faintness, seizures and tiredness, depression, agitation, weakness, blurred vision and others, which could significantly stay in the way of his work as a captain</EM></P></span>It seems pretty clear to me that the USCG is about to be pressured into clamping down on even prescribed medication meaning that during our current mariner shortage more people will be disqualifie and less compitent people will be taking there place. Those that are qualified will be less likely to take drugs of any kinda and go untreated for conditions that might negatively affect their performance.<br><br>Back to the DUI thing, <A href="http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/state/20080410-1404-ca-bayspill.html]Jolly</A> tar’s comments :<br><br>
<P><EM>“It does concern me that that could happen. Unfortunately, the way the regulations are constructed, that’s the system we have,” Coast Guard Rear Adm. Brian Salerno told him.</EM> </P>So my bet is the rules are about to get tightened up in the very short term future.
WRT to the chart in the CFR, I know a QMED that had to wait a year to get his engineering license because he had a traffic ticket for doing standing burn-outs. Seems that it was a close enough kin to Reckless Driving and/or Racing for the USCG. A pretty loose interpetation IMHO.
No matter what any of us care to think about it, or would like to think about it, we need to remember that times are a changing. <br><br>No one at DHS cares that we think it’s unfair, or that the guy most likely won’t do it again, and after having their ass handed to them on several fronts this past year (Deepwater, TWIC, Cosco Busan, etc.), the CG is bound to bow up and tighten down on things, very similar to what the FAA is in the process of doing right now with the airlines (Fly American, anyone?).<br><br>All the bullshit is about to go away I fear fellas…with budget cuts, personnel and retention shortages, and Thad Allen getting tired of sitting up on Capitol Hill answering up to yet another faux paux.<br><br>We’ve let this happen, and we’ve even reached in there and stirred the pot adding to our own misery, and we have done nothing to help ourselves. SO…now what?<br><br>No one is going to give us a helping hand, no one is going to reach out and save us from the quicksand, no one is going to feel sorry for us except US…OURSELVES. If we’re in one, our unions are only in it for themselves, our companies are only in it for the money, and we’re the cannon fodder. It doesn’t matter where we sail, or with whom, or on what…we…as an industry, couldn’t find our way out of a wet paper bag right no if we had to. And we have to. Beside’s several principles from maritime schools, who here sits on the MERPAC? Hmmmm? Who converses with the Coast Guard, their Congressman, or their Senator on a regular basis? Hmmm? Who? Seacor, AMO, Chouest, MM&P, Tidewater, MEBA, Hornbeck…are you the one having the conversation with that Congressman during the fishing trip? Didn’t think so…<br><br>Wondering how we’re going to weave our way out of a DUI, is going to become just the tip of the iceberg…<br><br>Maybe it’s time we grew up, and did something to help ourselves…
Nicely put El, <br>For the Americans on here, if you have time to read here, then take the time to to comment on proposed regulations at www.regulations.gov . You can search for open USCG items, they’ve made it easy to comment online. Also see transportation.house.gov for hearings and legislation pending, some are web casted. <br><br>When I was a CG investigator, they told us in school that one DWI was not an issue, anyone can get a DUI. It was up to the local OCMI what to do with two. Three would require action against your license. But that was when only the REC would know, and only when you upgraded or renewed. (As opposed to drug testing where your employer is required to notify the CG.
Off the track a little here. <br><br>Having a commercial driver license for that last 14 yrs or so. The rule for us put out by the DOT is ANY amount of alcohol in our system either in a truck or POV. They will take our cdl’s. The same if we ever get pulled over and don’t have our license with us. <br><br>I really don’t drink any more those days are long gone. When I do. It’s either at home or when some one else is driving. I could never justify loosing my CDL over a few drinks. I look at it this way. That CDL is what pays my bills.
<link rel=“File-List” href=“file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5CMustufa%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml”><!–[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]–><!–[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState=“false” LatentStyleCount=“156”> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]–><style> <!-- /* Style Definitions / p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:“Times New Roman”; mso-fareast-font-family:“Times New Roman”;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style><!–[if gte mso 10]> <style> / Style Definitions / table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:“Table Normal”; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:“Times New Roman”; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]–>DUI (Driving Under Influence ) is a serious criminal offence that result the suspension of driving license. When a person is driving or is in actual physical control of a vehicle within this state and is under the influence of alcoholic beverages, any chemical substance, when affected to the extent that the person’s normal faculties are impaired; has a blood or breath-alcohol level of 0.08 or more.
<link rel=“File-List” href=“file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5CMustufa%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml”><!–[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]–><!–[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState=“false” LatentStyleCount=“156”> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]–><style> <!-- / Style Definitions / p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:“Times New Roman”; mso-fareast-font-family:“Times New Roman”;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style><!–[if gte mso 10]> <style> / Style Definitions / table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:“Table Normal”; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:“Times New Roman”; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]–> DUI is an offense. If you have been charged with a DUI you should seek legal help at once from <link rel=“File-List” href=“file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5CMustufa%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml”><!–[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]–><!–[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState=“false” LatentStyleCount=“156”> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]–><style> <!-- / Font Definitions / @font-face {font-family:“Book Antiqua”; panose-1:2 4 6 2 5 3 5 3 3 4; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:roman; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:647 0 0 0 159 0;} / Style Definitions / p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:“Times New Roman”; mso-fareast-font-family:“Times New Roman”;} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {color:blue; text-decoration:underline; text-underline:single;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple; text-decoration:underline; text-underline:single;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style><!–[if gte mso 10]> <style> / Style Definitions / table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:“Table Normal”; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:“Times New Roman”; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]–> <link rel=“File-List” href=“file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5CMustufa%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml”><!–[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]–><!–[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState=“false” LatentStyleCount=“156”> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]–><style> <!-- / Font Definitions / @font-face {font-family:“Book Antiqua”; panose-1:2 4 6 2 5 3 5 3 3 4; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:roman; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:647 0 0 0 159 0;} / Style Definitions / p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:“Times New Roman”; mso-fareast-font-family:“Times New Roman”;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style><!–[if gte mso 10]> <style> / Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:“Table Normal”; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:“Times New Roman”; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]–>DUI Lawyers.
10 or more years ago I received a DUI in the State of Washington. I went the route of defered sentenceing and went through the classes and all the other requirements of the court. I did have a lawer. When I went to upgrade a couple of years later I was up front with the CG and wrote a statement concerning the matter and had no problems. With a defered sentence you are on probation for 5 years, if there are no problems the DUI is off the record. If there are problems like another DUI, the first one counts as well. For my renewals I continue to inform the CG of this incident and I have had no problems. This last upgrade about 6 mos. ago the REC said I did not have to include a statement as it was already on record.
Awesome post and exactly the here and now!!!