Do you not think the “Green New Deal” and the current admin’s attitude toward the petroleum industry caused a rise in petroleum prices

[tengineer1]

Continuing the discussion from East and Gulf Coast Longshoreman Strike Likely:

@ChaplainDarrell

Do you not think the “Green New Deal” and the current admin’s attitude toward the petroleum industry caused a rise in petroleum prices which the cost of “everything” is based on? Just asking an honest question, no snark or sarcasm intended.

No, oil is a world commodity controlled by the oil cartels which include Exxon, Chevron, Shell etc. They control the price. I remember the former CEO of Exxon Lee Raymond when asked about building more refineries in the US to help keep oil prices low for US consumers stating very clearly that Exxon is not a US corporation. They and the other oil companies consider themselves sovereign entities who control the supply of oil to guarantee themselves a profit. Why would a “green new deal” cause oil prices to go up? A reasonable person would think that if this “green new deal” was causing less oil to be needed there would be a surplus and the price would go down. All you have to to do is look at the proven reserves the oil companies have as published in their annual reports to see they have enough to reduce the price a lot, IF they wanted to but lower prices mean less profits. The cartels in the US, Russia, the Middle East and other countries control the price of oil. Been that way for many, many years. They are beyond the reach of any government but at the same time control governments.

[Chippin]

Globally traded commodity, both sides need to understand neither is controlling the price much, aside from the strategic reserve but that’s a drop in the bucket

[yacht_sailor]

Green New Deal?

[tengineer1]

@Chippin

Globally traded commodity, both sides need to understand neither is controlling the price much, aside from the strategic reserve but that’s a drop in the bucket

When monopolies exist such as in the oil business they control the prices. Basic economics . To think that a member of a world monopoly would fight a national monopoly in the USA, France, the Middle East or anywhere else to lower oil prices is ludicrous. Why would they cut their profits or their influence on their governments which their profits provide. Anyone that thinks national politics in the USA or any other country affects oil prices is nuts.No government controls the production of oil.The oil companies have for over 100 years. They are among the too big to regulate and too big to fail entities like the banks .

[ombugge]

Only Saudi Arabia has a large enough production (- domestic consumption) to make any impact on the oil price, but not alone.

OPEC was formed in 1960 to control crude oil prices, but with limited success over the years: https://www.opec.org/opec_web/en/about_us/24.htm#

OPEC+ was formed to increase the ability to stabilize crude oil prices : https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=56420
They have attempted to do so for several years now, but it is still only Saudi Arabia that can turn on and off the tap (to a certain degree) without suffering economic hardship.

US is now the world’s largest producer of crude oil, but just barely a net exporter due domestic consumption. It is still a major importer as well due to need for different grades of crude oil for it’s refineries: https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/oil-and-petroleum-products/imports-and-exports.php

PS> The days when “the 7 sisters” could set prices is ancient history.
Fixed Crude oil price set by them ended in the early 1970s: Milestones in the History of U.S. Foreign Relations - Office of the Historian

[Chippin]

@ombugge

Only Saudi Arabia has a large enough production (- domestic consumption) to make any impact on the oil price

The USA is the world’s leading oil producer we produce the most oil. We put out around 1/2 Billion barrels per year more than Saudi Arabia.
I believe we are also a NET exporter as of 2019, meaning we export more than we import.
Perhaps we should create OPUS and OPUS+++

[Kennebec_Captain]

Given the push to electrify transportation and the electric grid in general wouldn’t that tend to lower demand (and hence prices) of fossil fuels?

Here in Maine gas is under $3 a gallon.

Here’s gas prices adjusted for inflation:

[ombugge]

Yes that was what I said:

@ombugge

US is now the world’s largest producer of crude oil, but just barely a net exporter due domestic consumption. It is still a major importer as well.

There is a difference between being a net exporter of crude oil and of petroleum. (incl. crude oil and petroleum products of all kinds)
As stated in the linked EIA article:

In 2020, the United States became a net exporter of petroleum for the first time since at least 1949.1 In 2022, total petroleum exports were about 9.52 million barrels per day (b/d) and total petroleum imports were about 8.33 million b/d, making the United States an annual net total petroleum exporter for the third year in a row.

PS> Saudi Arabia is a major exporter of crude oil and a small importer of petroleum products, hence able to influence crude oil prices to a certain degree.

[yacht_sailor]

Crude oil is not 100% fungible. Certain oils go to certain refineries. The USA cannot presently do without imported oil, we would need more refineries. Likewise someone somewhere else needs some of our oil.

[ChaplainDarrell]

It’s easy. You blame POTUS. Or the guy before him.