Diversity & inclusion helps?

WELL DONE. Succinctly said.

There was a sign on the 1st Class lounge on USS Kilauea [AE-26] in 1975. “All men are created equal. After that, it’s up to the individual”. It really is all about equal opportunity.

Inclusion? I’m reminded by my boot-camp experience [Co 444 in 1969 at San Diego]. We were a hodgepodge collection of individuals: All kinds of races-might even have had an alien; farm boys, city slickers, college educated & those with a GED. It was a whole mix. After our heads were shaved, we kinda looked all alike - Sure, you could tell the black guys from the white guys, but the rest? You really couldn’t tell the Hispanics from the Filipinos from the subsets of Asian, from the Pacific Islanders. The “alien” - yeah he was a stand-out still.

But the Navy didn’t advertise “diversity” & “inclusion”. The company became “inclusive” by working together - mostly to subvert the company commander when ever he put his “guard” down. The college guys made the plans and the muscle bound [pitching hay] country boys did the grunt work. We also became “inclusive” as a unit with the day-to-day grind of the boot camp training.

The diversity was muted - we were all sailors - except for the “alien” who decided he’d go AWOL - over the fence into the Marine Corps depot, where he had the privilege to go through USMC recruit training after his “brig” time with the corps, and then be returned to the USN to restart his USN boot camp!

So, in conclusion, we had diversity & inclusion. But it wasn’t a “policy” or a “directive” or a “mission statement”. And that’s the point of my original post [rant]. We see those buzz-words in the organization chart, and it just sounds useless.
McDonalds/IBM/Dell may all be “inclusive” and “diverse”, but in and of itself, those two qualities don’t mean squat if the product is bad. . .or if the service is bad.

To me, it’s one thing in the employee meeting or crew meeting to lead to “inclusion”, that we are “all in this together”, but I just am sick & tired of having it shoved down my throat ALL THE TIME, in what seems to be a daily occurrence.

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At work I think it is safe to say we’ve all used this exact line about something, wearing PPE, ship security, doing job safety analyses, hygiene, most recently Covid19 etc. Once we get to vent a little most people adapt, accept it & go about their business of the new normal. The ones who “doth protest too much” about the new normal raises red flags which usually means it’s time for the old timer to move along to make way for younger guys.

I say this for work related topics. If you are at home or retired you completely control what media you consume & what does or doesn’t get shoved down your throat.

BTW, I think for many people any complaints about diversity & inclusion is a big red flag. Never complain about it unless you want to be outed as a racist or bigot. Of all the additional training that has been shoved down our throats no one who wants to keep their job should make big fuss about diversity & inclusion. It’s just like everything else, accept it, quit or get fired. It’s not going away, at least I hope not.

I get that. That’s why I’m not posting statistics or a Harvard report. That’s why I was reluctant to share my story. That’s why your post turned me off. That’s why Capt Love’s personal story is on page one of gCaptain right now rather than a generic HR statement.

I believe that having a diversity policy and training aboard ship is important but more HR checklists do not always lead to better results. We need to listen. Can companies invest in people rather than prepackaged HR systems? Can managers give us the time and tools to understand each-other, to empathize? Can HR managers leave the office and spent time aboard ship? Can gCaptain invite more minority voices to participate on this forum?

Here’s my favorite book on this topic: Nonviolent Communication: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00TKMBJKE/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_CjJ3EbDWTPJJR

The author claims that the most violent word in the English language - the one that has caused more wars, discrimination, pain and suffering - is the word “should”.

If every company hr person read that book then maybe they wouldn’t send powerpoints and checklist telling us what we should and shouldn’t do. Maybe instead they would give us the tools and the time to learn basic human empathy?

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Yeah, I’m the “boomer”, the old guy, the retired guy. . . you refer to. :sunglasses: :partying_face: :mask:.

If I was working, ONLY BECAUSE I NEED THE PAYCHECK, would I TOLERATE the BS; in much the same way I tolerate the automated answering of business when I call. . . Some of you “young turks” may have never had the pleasure of speaking to a live person, who can direct your call immediately, instead of:
Press 1 if you speak English, Press 2 if you speak Spanish (You’re screwed if you don’t speak either), Press 3 for sales, Press 4 for technical service, Press 5 for H&R, Press 6 for product assistance, Press 7 for Internet assistance, Press 8 for legacy products, Press 9 for all other. And when you press 9, you hear, “all operators are taking care of other customers, and there is no waiting. Call back later”.
And that is when we go “POSTAL” and blow up something!!

No, accepting the status-quo is not right. We don’t need to hear constantly about diversity & inclusion. It’s like crying “wolf”. Pretty soon you ignore it; pretty soon you want to kill the little bastard crying wolf.

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Capt Love’s final paragraph,
The events of the last few months here in the United States, and around the world, have given me much to think about. The injustices, the racism, prejudice and bias people of color suffer in our society because of skin tone must end. It is not a time to be silent, or to deny who we are, or to idly sit by and watch without speaking out. It is a time for telling the bold truth and having the uncomfortable discourses. It is a time to demand change, fair treatment and true equality. A time to be judged on our merits and capabilities and not the color of our skin, race, gender, social background, choice of religion, sexual orientation, or the myriad of other things that we use as excuses to abuse each other. It is time to be greater, and to do more for each other, instead of against each other. It is a time for all of us to be one race, the human race, united and firm in demanding positive change not just here in the US, but across the entire planet.

Says it all. However, as an unfortunate realist, I don’t believe ALL RACISM will be exorcised. Pick your country, India, China, Philippines, Japan, and others [except the Bug Man’s and his neighbors - they are already white & can’t get much whiter :rofl: :rofl:] the inhabitants eschew the darker skinned & prefer the lighter skinned.

Racism exists - I was denied entry to bars & restaurants in Japan - I was a Gaijin, a foreigner. I didn’t protest it [well, loudly anyway], I moved on. Bad stuff happens.

What did I teach my kids? That “all lives mattered”. That we were all equal. That there was equal opportunity: Opportunity to be good, or a shithead. That they would experience prejudice. That the world was not fair. To be the best they could be. They didn’t need to have a H&R policy statement to be a good employee.

As I look back on my life - my generation has a much “thicker skin” about things. We aren’t so sensitive. But that doesn’t mean we don’t know the difference between BS & non-BS.

When I’m on a ship, teach me/drill me on how to abandon ship & fight fires. Teach me how to do my job better. But don’t hammer me with H&R stuff.

I accept that I must wear a hardhat or bump cap in places & times when I think the possibility of needing them is zero. It’s the way life is, all the bitching, crying & pouting in the world will not change it. The Greatest Generation didn’t want The Great Depression & WW2 to happen but they didn’t throw a hissy fit & give up. As a Gen X’er I can eat hardhat wearing, working with minorities & needless HR training for breakfast, spit it out then go put in a days work with no problems. Never had the urge to kill a little bastard over any of it. Perhaps the Gen X’ers, Gen Y’er & Millenials have thicker skin than the Boomers?

There are good and bad people everywhere…ashore and aboard ship. The numbers, and personal stories, add background to a complex issue.

No one can argue that the death in Minneapolis, and the aftermath, are tragic. In reality though, they are just the outer layers of an onion that models a $hit load of problems. An example…I had a lapse of judgement years ago and wound up in a police car on my way to the County Correctional Condominium. I was in the front seat, uncuffed, until we arrived. IF I was black, or Hispanic, would I have taken that ride in the front seat with no cuffs?!? Highly doubtful. That experience flicked a switch in my brain. At the time I thought, " No problem; I was polite, non-combative, so the trooper was being nice." The switch was jiggling though and the more I thought about it, the more I realized I was seeing first hand a major issue in law enforcent. Today, I am more certain than ever.

Yet, despite John’s first hand accounts and my experience, as well as those of others who have not posted, the issue remains that we have lost three generations of young people in urban communities to violence fueled by drugs, gangs, unstable housing, educational disparity, and, in general, poverty.

How do we fix those issues? What is step one? Why is the spark of Mr. Floyd’s death the reason we are NOW looking at this? If anyone has suddenly looked around and said, “Hey, this is a problem”, where the (expletive) have you been? This works both sides of the aisle. The violence in big cities is not new. Death has happened, tragically, for decades. The data given by Seamaster should not be surprise. John’s first hand accounts are not rare. I hear related narratives from my sister who teaches in an urban district. On one hand we have data, on the other we read and attempt to comprehend what happens on a daily basis. I struggle to understand because I have NOT lived a life where I fear encounters with police or worry about my next meal or where I will live in the next month.

It is all related…the onion is big, and each layer leads to another. To say, “Don’t break the law and you are fine” is too easy. Laws will be broken, and those who break the law are absolutely entitled to fair treatment. A counterfeit bill, or selling untaxed cigarettes are not a reason to die. Policing needs to change, but again that is an easy answer, too. It is a major undertaking to change but not impossible. Hamilton fired every Master and Lieutenant in the Revenue Cuttter Service and started from scratch. They all reapplied and were taken back based on merit, if deserved. Is that a workable idea? Weed out the bad? The onion is still there; how is coverage provided during the change? How do we work with existing labor agreements? Nothing is easy. This is hard stuff, and an honest look inside ourselves is, at least, a starting point.

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I don’t know about a thicker skin but they experienced a different way of growing up if their parents couldn’t afford to put them in private schools. I went to a segregated public elementary, Jr. and Sr. high school. Segregation was legal and normal at that time. When I was in Jr. high black people [they were called Negros in polite society at that time] could enroll in white schools but very very few did. One student’s father insisted he go to our school because we had better books and the education system was much better financed than the black schools were. When he walked up the steps that first day of school among several hundred white kids you could have heard a pin drop. When he got to the top of the steps we started clapping. That guy remains in my mind one of the bravest individuals I have ever seen. The following generations went to integrated schools and were exposed to people they previously would never have been exposed to and developed a different outlook though many carried with them prejudices from home. As far as mandatory HR training? Well many times they are trying to justify their existence but sometimes they are trying to avoid lawsuits arising from laws prohibiting discrimination. I always just rolled with the flow, didn’t change how I looked at my fellow human beings one bit. Working with an international crew was always a pleasure for me. They were just working guys like me that wanted to make a living and care for their family. There were cultural differences of course but in my youth I at times hung out in Boston and the Bayou so I am well aware of cultural differences, even in the same country.
The reason this diversity and inclusion conversation is happening now is because of the protests ongoing. The causes for the unrest go way back and are not only about race but economics. The division between the classes is growing out of control and those in the 90% are beginning to notice. Black people are just the most obvious victims of race and class prejudice. In the words of the famous philosopher Chris Rock, “There isn’t a white man in America that would trade places with me and I am RICH.”

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No Sandy, it just means you’ve been raised in a culture that doesn’t know anything different. . . :rofl: :wink:

The boomers know the difference - we put up with the BS because it’s “required”, not because we "embrace it wholly without realizing it is, for the most part, BS.

I managed to survive my Navy experience without “stress-cards” and H&R touchy-feely stuff. Wore the hard-hat during unreps, and helmets during other excitement.

I spent time in a bos’n chair, and on a stage working over the side of the ship. I accepted that being on a ship is inherently risky - and how to manage the risk. But, for example, to lash down a 6’ stepladder, in a flat calm sea, and put on a safety belt when I go up the ladder, or get sanctioned, is crazy.

I did it - I required the deck crew to conform - but I knew it was BS.

Following the “rules” of what some Army guy said, “1) your 5 minutes of bitching is up - get on with it.” and “Embrace the suck”, I’ll comment no more. It’s time to put on the hard hat and go swab the deck. :grimacing:

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Yes it is crazy but experience has shown that without fail some idiot in rough seas will not lash down a ladder or wear fall protection. They will fall, break something and cause all manner of inconvience. If you have a rule that says in seas over 2 feet you must lash down the ladder then you have to have someone determine how much is 2 feet. It gets stupid so they draw a line to the lowest common denominator. Eventually it messes with your mind and you find yourself tying off ladders at home, running fire drills, wearing hearing protection while mowing the lawn etc.

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My kid’s a LEO in FL. I get stories. . . The most recent was about the tornado. While all the protestors were outside slinging their “shit”, you know, “defund the police”, BLM, Pigs, etc, the tornado warning sounded. The police invited the protestors inside HQ. Not one word from the protestors when they left - they’d found out that the police were helpful.

He also tells me about his arrests, and the arrests by other cops. There is, unfortunately a racial divide in how the suspects act - and consequently how they (the suspects) are treated - AND MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT - there is a CLASS divide too. However, nowadays, no longer are criminal suspects riding in the front. EVERYONE goes in the back and are in restraints. Is that the case in all cities? Don’t know. Is that the case in small towns? Don’t know.

Floyd has been eleveated to sainthood. There’s been more protests then when MLK was assassinated, or when JFK or RFK were killed. To me, the issue is BAD COPS. Floyd was the victim of a murder, no doubt. Was it singularly because of his race - I don’t know. Would we be having a conversation if Floyd was white & the cops were another race - probably not. BUT, WHY NOT? Wouldn’t the second case be just as bad as the former?

I don’t have the answer. I know that race relations appear to be worse although affirmative action has been in place since 1964. I know that poverty in the minority areas continues, although the seemingly limitless amounts of money has been spent. I know that education reforms don’t seem to be working. And the nation is tearing itself apart. I don’t know what drives the total frustration.

When someone says BLM, does that mean that non-BL don’t matter? Is it a binary choice? One can see from the looters, that most (and believe me, I know NOT ALL-too many skinny jeans and man-buns in the pictures) fit a particular demographic. Yet at the same time, everyone says “BLM” [John, I’m not busting your chops here-really!]. Aren’t the two messages at odds with each other?

Collectively, we have to do what Rodney King said, “Can’t we just get along?”.

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And using a shop-vac in the man-cave!!

Therein lies the issue…a chicken/egg question, perhaps. Do people act a certain way around police because of how they are socially conditioned to behave or do the police act based on how the suspect acts? Which is it?

Meanwhile, “Defund the Police” gains headway so perhaps we shall learn shortly. Personally, I see an even bigger mess rolling toward us. None of the solutions are easy.

Concerning what may be driving the frustration, I suspect, with nothing but a gut feeling to make this suspicion, that there is significant frustration over the previous administration for not delivering on the “Hope and Change” statement. Honestly, I am disappointed too because while I had SIGNIFICANT issues with some of President Obama’s policies (then again I have issues with every President in my lifetime), I felt a great opportunity was lost to began meaningful change in housing, urban education issues, and crime prevention. Cornel West (who I rarely agree with) penned an op-ed on this frustration and I was nodding along while reading.

Are you talking history? There are now a mix of races in ALL the Nordic countries. Most in the bigger cities, but even in small fishing villages in the north of Norway and in villages along the narrowest fjords, there are now people of different races, religions and (most of all) different Nationalities.
Are the Nordic countries free from racism, economic inequality and crime? No, not at all, but it is not at US levels.

I have lived most of my life in Singapore, were there are more mix of races and religions than in the US. There are also strict laws against racism and especially against any kind of religious discrimination and abuse. (Laws are strictly enforced in Singapore, as you probably know)

Does that mean that there are no racism or discrimination? Overt yes, but it is still there and appears clearly in social media (anonymous, of course)
It would not take much to trigger a backlash to the pre-1965 conditions. That is why there are strict rules and anybody that breaks the rules gets sentenced to jail, or self-exsil.
Much to the annoyance of western media and critics. (Un-democratic they scream)

PS> I DO have a name, and I use it. Feel free to do the same.

BTW: there were demonstration in solidarity with the BLM movement several places here in Norway as well.

In Oslo they called for a demonstration outside the US Embassy. Because of the (anti-)Social Distancing requirement, it was supposed to be limited to 50 persons. 50,000 people reported interest in participating.

Here in Ålesund it was planned a big demonstration, but the Police put their foot down. (For the same infection risk reason)
Instead a VERY small demonstration was held by some local living Americans. There was a long report in the local paper, but it is behind a paywall. I have picked out some (in Google translation):

There is a lot more said by the other participants, who were not impressed by the fact that the organizers of the planned demonstration did not contact ALL the Americans living in town and in the nearest area.

Again, there is so much I disagree with you about that it’s difficult to know where to start.

So I will start in the context of the maritime domain and how these events can improve our working relationships at sea.

Here’s the thing. We are all busy. We have other things going on. There are so many issues, how do you focus on one? Which one issue should we focus on? Is this topic more important than that one? Or are we wasting our time?

What events like this bring is mutual awareness across the entire maritime industry and (in this case) far beyond.

When the El Faro sank many on this forum said that an investigation was useless. The only thing that mattered was that the captain got too close to the hurricane. Why do we need months of testimony to tell us that? What good would that do? It will only drag things out for the families who are in pain.

Same goes for the titanic. The titanic lead to SOLAS but 3/4 of the stuff in SOLAS has nothing to do with how or why the Titanic sunk.

But each event caused us to explore tangentially related issues that, may not have prevented that incident, but sure as hell can save lives in the future.

So it doesn’t matter if Floyd was a good man or not.

It doesn’t matter why Captain Smith never slowed down when the Titanic reached fog.

It doesn’t matter what Captain Davidson was thinking aboard the El Faro that night.

What matters are the thousands of Captains who have stopped to ask how they can use the Titanic and el faro investigation reports to make their ships safer.

What matters is the millions of people who are using today’s events to make the world around them more equal and fair.

There is nothing I can do to fix the Minneapolis situation but I can use the opportunity to listen to the minorities around me and think hard about what I can do in my local communities (gCaptain being one of them) to improve the lives of those around me.

Some have emailed me to say that certain minority groups are being opportunistic, using this incident to push their agenda. Well you could say that lifeboat manufacturers today that are using the el faro report to push shipping companies into replacing open lifeboats are being opportunistic… and maybe they are… but if the result is that my crew is safer then I am happy they are doing so.

Was Floyd George a saint or criminal? How about Davidson and Smith? I don’t know. What I do know is that all three where humans and all humans are flawed. I also know that each gave us a gift. A unique opportunity to collectively focus on the problems their tragedy exposed. To ask questions. To challenge longstanding beliefs. To consider different perspectives. To find a way to be better sailors and more compassionate humans.

And that’s the question that matters most to me. Do we come together, as we did after the Titanic, and use this global tragedy to improve in a multitude of ways, or do we waste it by focusing too narrowly on a few details and by arguing about whether not it’s worthwhile to discuss the matter further?

You know my answer to that question: BLACK LIVES MATTER.

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We came come together all we want but until there are systemic changes in how the country works for all people nothing will change. I offer zero excuse for the asshole that choked the life out of a man because he may have used a counterfeit $20 bill. That he cared not one wit that he was being filmed while he killed the man says a great deal about the culture of policing there. On the other hand the Dallas police chief had something interesting to say in 2016.

Does that excuse the actions of the increasing number of “few bad apples” ? No, but it says something about a society that does not provide opportunity for a good education to all neighborhoods, defund mental health care, cut spending for nutrition programs, cut medicaid eligibility and deny healthcare to its citizens yet claims to be the richest country on earth. Then you shove all societies problems on to police who have no idea how to handle these problems. You couple that with a declining standard of living for the vast majority of all US citizens and you have a revolution in the making. This is a problem that has been evolving for 50 years but is now becoming more serious. Covid 19 has caused a further economic hit on the bottom 95%. The next year will be an interesting time.

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John, You “had me”, right up until the last sentence. . . And that’s where we part ways, because
#ALL LIVES MATTER - equally. White/Black/Brown/Red/Yellow/mixed.
No one gets priority in “mattering”.
It’s a THIN BLUE LINE between civilization & anarchy!

So, apparently, you support this: [taken from their web-page]

What We Believe

Four years ago, what is now known as the Black Lives Matter Global Network began to organize. It started out as a chapter-based, member-led organization whose mission was to build local power and to intervene when violence was inflicted on Black communities by the state and vigilantes.

In the years since, we’ve committed to struggling together and to imagining and creating a world free of anti-Blackness, where every Black person has the social, economic, and political power to thrive.

Black Lives Matter began as a call to action in response to state-sanctioned violence and anti-Black racism. Our intention from the very beginning was to connect Black people from all over the world who have a shared desire for justice to act together in their communities. The impetus for that commitment was, and still is, the rampant and deliberate violence inflicted on us by the state.

Enraged by the death of Trayvon Martin and the subsequent acquittal of his killer, George Zimmerman, and inspired by the 31-day takeover of the Florida State Capitol by POWER U and the Dream Defenders, we took to the streets. A year later, we set out together on the Black Lives Matter Freedom Ride to Ferguson, in search of justice for Mike Brown and all of those who have been torn apart by state-sanctioned violence and anti-Black racism. Forever changed, we returned home and began building the infrastructure for the Black Lives Matter Global Network, which, even in its infancy, has become a political home for many.

Ferguson helped to catalyze a movement to which we’ve all helped give life. Organizers who call this network home have ousted anti-Black politicians, won critical legislation to benefit Black lives, and changed the terms of the debate on Blackness around the world. Through movement and relationship building, we have also helped catalyze other movements and shifted culture with an eye toward the dangerous impacts of anti-Blackness.

These are the results of our collective efforts.

The Black Lives Matter Global Network is as powerful as it is because of our membership, our partners, our supporters, our staff, and you. Our continued commitment to liberation for all Black people means we are continuing the work of our ancestors and fighting for our collective freedom because it is our duty.

Every day, we recommit to healing ourselves and each other, and to co-creating alongside comrades, allies, and family a culture where each person feels seen, heard, and supported.

We acknowledge, respect, and celebrate differences and commonalities.

We work vigorously for freedom and justice for Black people and, by extension, all people.

We intentionally build and nurture a beloved community that is bonded together through a beautiful struggle that is restorative, not depleting.

We are unapologetically Black in our positioning. In affirming that Black Lives Matter, we need not qualify our position. To love and desire freedom and justice for ourselves is a prerequisite for wanting the same for others.

We see ourselves as part of the global Black family, and we are aware of the different ways we are impacted or privileged as Black people who exist in different parts of the world.

We are guided by the fact that all Black lives matter, regardless of actual or perceived sexual identity, gender identity, gender expression, economic status, ability, disability, religious beliefs or disbeliefs, immigration status, or location.

We make space for transgender brothers and sisters to participate and lead.

We are self-reflexive and do the work required to dismantle cisgender privilege and uplift Black trans folk, especially Black trans women who continue to be disproportionately impacted by trans-antagonistic violence.

We build a space that affirms Black women and is free from sexism, misogyny, and environments in which men are centered.

We practice empathy. We engage comrades with the intent to learn about and connect with their contexts.

We make our spaces family-friendly and enable parents to fully participate with their children. We dismantle the patriarchal practice that requires mothers to work “double shifts” so that they can mother in private even as they participate in public justice work.

We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.

We foster a queer‐affirming network. When we gather, we do so with the intention of freeing ourselves from the tight grip of heteronormative thinking, or rather, the belief that all in the world are heterosexual (unless s/he or they disclose otherwise).

We cultivate an intergenerational and communal network free from ageism. We believe that all people, regardless of age, show up with the capacity to lead and learn.

We embody and practice justice, liberation, and peace in our engagements with one another.

Yes, of course all lives matter. But

A) that should go without saying.

B) all lives are not in pain asking for your help right now.

Your statement is the equivalent of hearing that the steward just fell overboard and waiting until you have a full and complete muster to turn the ship around.

And then once you do going to the man’s facebook page to make sure you agree with every point he has made before throwing the lifering.

Do my police officer friends and family feel under attack? “Yes.” Are they in pain? “Yes.” Is there anything I can do to help them right now? “No”. Really? “We will be ok, we have a good group of officers here helping each-other through this.“

How am I so sure that’s their answer? Because I asked them.

I asked my black friends too: are you ok? “No.” Can I help? “Yes.”

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I know you were in Singapore prior to 1965 as I was but I’m unsure what you are on about. They were different times, it wasn’t easy living in the East End of London then either. We had just finished the Malaysian Emergency in which Regular Forces prevailed over Guerrilla Forces and then Indonesia started to throw its weight around. Singapore was able to start moving towards independence and governing positions were gradually filled by properly prepared and educated local citizens. Good governance doesn’t just happen.