Difficulties going from one industry to the next

Professional Mariner Forum
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I fully expect a bit of an uproar with this but I intend it so that I have a solid expectation from people who actually know.

I have always heard that there is large difference in the OSV industry in the GOM vs almost any other maritime industry or region. My only true experience is in this GOM oilfield division and have worked my way up from an entry level OS with zero experience to Third Mate, hopefully Second Mate here in the next few trips. The only people I have to really try to judge my opinion of how the other maritime divisions operate is by the opinion of other people here in the GOM and I feel that I may be getting a slightly biased opinion. I do not think that the guys here are trying to down talk blue-water shipping or anything but I feel that they may have never been on that side OR it was so long ago that everything has changed so much since they were there.

As a Mate, how would my job differ from the OSV world? I understand that each vessel has a different job task be it tankers, containers, bulk, etc. but I have heard that in some industries that a Mate works on the deck and then I have heard that it is somewhat similar to what I do here which is oversee deck projects, loading and unloading deck cargo, participating in the creation of drills, safety appliance checklists, maneuvering the vessel, etc.

As I am sure most of you know, here a Mate is a Mate. Second, Third, doesn’t matter, you are just a Mate and your job is essentially the same.

I would imagine that each type of shipping would require its own set of skills or knowledge depending upon what kind of operations you are tasked with the job of the vessel. Would it be a big “Culture Shock” going from a Mate on an OSV to on a ship of any kind? I feel that the larger ships would be a little more involved due to the size of the crew and the added size of the ship that you are having to inspect and keep on top of.

Anyone on here made the transfer? I know there are a few who have jumped from the OSV world to the Drillship side but I feel like that is essentially the same industry. More people to deal with and having 30 different departments to have to deal with while trying to make it mutually beneficial for everyone, thats a guess.

Anyway, thanks for any input that you may have.

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Good post, Midge…I’m curious to hear also.

PS, you know who I am. We instagrammed a week ago lol

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So you want to go from being a mate on an OSV to the mate on a deep sea ship?

Dis gone be gud.

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It’ll be a shock for you for sure. I went the other way (tankers to OSVs) and it was a rude awakening, albeit one I don’t regret. Here are some things that might be a culture shock though:

Navigation Watch - If you like ship handling… You’re going to be bored out of your skull on watch. If I even touched the helm on the tanker I was on, the AB on watch got penalty overtime if they wanted to press the issue.

Meals- separate messrooms for officers and crew, same food, just different rooms. On top of that, there are divisions within that. On the ships I’ve been on it’s typical for there to be a senior officer table (Capt, Cheng, c/m, 1st asst.), engineer table, and deck table.

ISM- can’t really tell you what that’s like these days… It’s been 10 years since I left and there was no such thing as PTW on the ships I was on back then. I suspect that’s changed now though.

Union “issues”- they’ve been hit on so many times in other threads that I won’t go there in this.

Comms with home- when I left it was email only. Pre-paid at a rate per kilobit. Very expensive. I’d imagine that’s better these days too.

Those are the biggest things off the top of my head. I’m sure others will chime in too though.

5

It would be a culture shock going from OSV to deep sea.

Rank structure is far more apparent on OSV than deep sea. You can expect to wear uniform, call people by their rank instead of their first name etc.

There is usually a far more relaxed rank structure on OSV where there is no real rank hierarchy, it exists on paper yes, but in reality people are there to do their job and get on with it. Deep sea you can regularly meet the type of captain that has a delusional god complex, they are a real pain in ass to work with, in the past these type of characters have transferred into OSV, but usually get laughed off the boat for trying to introduce their pretentious ways.

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[QUOTE=follow40;170094]It would be a culture shock going from OSV to deep sea.

Rank structure is far more apparent on OSV than deep sea. You can expect to wear uniform, call people by their rank instead of their first name etc.

There is usually a far more relaxed rank structure on OSV where there is no real rank hierarchy, it exists on paper yes, but in reality people are there to do their job and get on with it. Deep sea you can regularly meet the type of captain that has a delusional god complex, they are a real pain in ass to work with, in the past these type of characters have transferred into OSV, but usually get laughed off the boat for trying to introduce their pretentious ways.[/QUOTE]

Yes, certainly no captains in the Patch with God complexes. . . . .

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[QUOTE=blaineatk;170068]I fully expect a bit of an uproar with this but I intend it so that I have a solid expectation from people who actually know.

I have always heard that there is large difference in the OSV industry in the GOM vs almost any other maritime industry or region. My only true experience is in this GOM oilfield division and have worked my way up from an entry level OS with zero experience to Third Mate, hopefully Second Mate here in the next few trips. The only people I have to really try to judge my opinion of how the other maritime divisions operate is by the opinion of other people here in the GOM and I feel that I may be getting a slightly biased opinion. I do not think that the guys here are trying to down talk blue-water shipping or anything but I feel that they may have never been on that side OR it was so long ago that everything has changed so much since they were there.

As a Mate, how would my job differ from the OSV world? I understand that each vessel has a different job task be it tankers, containers, bulk, etc. but I have heard that in some industries that a Mate works on the deck and then I have heard that it is somewhat similar to what I do here which is oversee deck projects, loading and unloading deck cargo, participating in the creation of drills, safety appliance checklists, maneuvering the vessel, etc.

As I am sure most of you know, here a Mate is a Mate. Second, Third, doesn’t matter, you are just a Mate and your job is essentially the same.

I would imagine that each type of shipping would require its own set of skills or knowledge depending upon what kind of operations you are tasked with the job of the vessel. Would it be a big “Culture Shock” going from a Mate on an OSV to on a ship of any kind? I feel that the larger ships would be a little more involved due to the size of the crew and the added size of the ship that you are having to inspect and keep on top of.

Anyone on here made the transfer? I know there are a few who have jumped from the OSV world to the Drillship side but I feel like that is essentially the same industry. More people to deal with and having 30 different departments to have to deal with while trying to make it mutually beneficial for everyone, thats a guess.

Anyway, thanks for any input that you may have.[/QUOTE]

I’ve sailed with a couple GOM mariners, both third mates. One was a little older, very experienced, a good seaman, he was born and raised on the back deck of an AHT, to hear him tell it anyway. He was real sharp, a hard worker and a good shipmate. He picked up the routine quickly, he had a couple inconsequentially social type flubs but he had a good sense of humor and he gave as good as he got when he was ribbed about it.

The other one, younger guy, not too smart, didn’t get it. No social skills and too set in his ways.

Don’t know much about OSVs but in my experience how well it goes depends on if the person understands the principles of seamanship and how good they are about dropping old habits and picking up the routine. If you’re pulling your weight and are a good shipmate the crew will be willing to help get you up to speed. It also helps if you don’t take yourself too seriously and don’t mind asking for advice.

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Thanks for the replies guys, I’m not really looking to make the jump and I’m not scared I’m going to lose my job. With that said, there are many guys who have more experience and skill than I have who are sitting at the house looking for work. I would just like to be prepared if it comes down to that.

I’m a pretty new mate, only had my license for about two years. I worked up from the bottom and try to pick up as much as I can. I’m a young guy and there are guys on the deck out here who have been at this much longer than I have. There are plenty of times that I have learned from them even though as far as rank goes, I’m higher.

Almost sounds like the shipping industry is like almost any other. Learn the practices, go with the flow, don’t be a dick or sensitive, don’t be lazy and you’ll be just fine.

Sound about right? Haha

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Exactly. Don’t be a dick, and don’t sit at the captain’s table without an invite, and you should do fine.

Oh, and make nice with the bosun too!! They can save you from living hell if you get the other ABs riled up somehow.

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I believe that tug hands from the larger and anchor handling boats would be a better fit in the deep sea maritime field than OSV mates. . . not to cast aspersions. . .

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[QUOTE=cmakin;170371]I believe that tug hands from the larger and anchor handling boats would be a better fit in the deep sea maritime field than OSV mates. . . not to cast aspersions. . .[/QUOTE]

This is an intresting topic. With regards to the larger ships, I don’t get the criticism that things are more formal, of course they are. Your local hot dog stand is not going to be as rigidly organized as a large chain restaurant.

Same thing with the notion that the captains are pretentious, do anyone think the guy at Walmart swabbing floors is chummy with the CEO? Aboard ship operations and one-off problems have to be solved at the lowest level. If crew thinks they can get the captain to use his full authority to solve their problems they willl avail themselves of that access.

I know some officers, captains included look down their noses at the crew, not just within the context of the ship hierarchy but socially as well but that’s not something that is confinied to ship officers, it’s a general thing.

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[QUOTE=Kennebec Captain;170385]This is an intresting topic. With regards to the larger ships, I don’t get the criticism that things are more formal, of course they are. Your local hot dog stand is not going to be as rigidly organized as a large chain restaurant.

Same thing with the notion that the captains are pretentious, do anyone think the guy at Walmart swabbing floors is chummy with the CEO? Aboard ship operations and one-off problems have to solved at the lowest level. If crew thinks they can get the captain to use his full authority to solve their problems they willl avail themselves of that access.

I know some officers, captains included look down their noses at the crew, not just within the context of the ship hierarchy but socially as well but that’s not something that is confinied to ship officers, it’s a general thing.[/QUOTE]

Of course with today’s smaller crews, I think that some of the more rigid hierarchy may have a different dynamic. That said, it has been a bit since I have been onboard a ship, let alone a US flag one.

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[QUOTE=cmakin;170389]Of course with today’s smaller crews, I think that some of the more rigid hierarchy may have a different dynamic. That said, it has been a bit since I have been onboard a ship, let alone a US flag one.[/QUOTE]

Sure it does. When I was on the CG Cutter with 144 crew I probably had 20 guys that I interacted with on a daily basis, the rest I barely knew, So on a crew with 20 people you’re going to know the whole crew.

However, as an example, on a vessel with a 5 man crew, if someone, aside from the C/E or Captain, acts like a jerk, anyone can call him out, but on a large vessel if the oiler is being an ass to the other oiler it’s going to go to the 1 A/E to solve first.

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If a mariner likes the way a 5 man crew interacts and he goes to a deep-sea vessel with 20 crew and thinks that the captain on the larger vessel should interact with the crew the same way as on the smaller who is being pretentious?

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I was never a fan of how formal deep sea ships operated. Every ship I sailed on if I spoke to the chief he would have this incredulous look on his face. I would get stared down with the “why are you even talking to me face” every time. Separate mess/lounges always felt like us against them type deal. As a young wiper/qmed I would choose the appropriate times and ask questions and usually get ignored or brushed off. Usually the 2nd or 3rd would answer my questions off to the side. In this most recent boom I’ve had to train and sign off many blue water chiefs and 1A/E’s. Almost everyone could not believe they had to interact with the “lowly” wipers and qmed’s. They all assumed they would get that instant respect their rank afforded. Normally I would never chastise a junior officer in public but I broke my own rule for one guy. At lunch he loudly proclaimed if this was his last ship he would not even be speaking to qmed’s. I loudly proclaimed to him in front of 18 crew members that maybe he should go back there as he was being disrespectful to a shipmate. He stated he would not be second guessed by a mud boat qmed. I then informed him he wasn’t in charge of the watch that the qmed was. Further I had instructed the qmed to wake me before he did anything stupid. I hated being brushed off in my early days so I have made it a point to not do that to my wipers/qmed’s. How can you train your people if you don’t interact with them?

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[QUOTE=Fraqrat;170442]I was never a fan of how formal deep sea ships operated. Every ship I sailed on if I spoke to the chief he would have this incredulous look on his face. I would get stared down with the “why are you even talking to me face” every time. Separate mess/lounges always felt like us against them type deal. As a young wiper/qmed I would choose the appropriate times and ask questions and usually get ignored or brushed off. Usually the 2nd or 3rd would answer my questions off to the side. In this most recent boom I’ve had to train and sign off many blue water chiefs and 1A/E’s. Almost everyone could not believe they had to interact with the “lowly” wipers and qmed’s. They all assumed they would get that instant respect their rank afforded. Normally I would never chastise a junior officer in public but I broke my own rule for one guy. At lunch he loudly proclaimed if this was his last ship he would not even be speaking to qmed’s. I loudly proclaimed to him in front of 18 crew members that maybe he should go back there as he was being disrespectful to a shipmate. He stated he would not be second guessed by a mud boat qmed. I then informed him he wasn’t in charge of the watch that the qmed was. Further I had instructed the qmed to wake me before he did anything stupid. I hated being brushed off in my early days so I have made it a point to not do that to my wipers/qmed’s. How can you train your people if you don’t interact with them?[/QUOTE]

Hehehe. I remember when I made the step from deep sea (MEBA1) to tugs (Crowley). “Just temporary”, I thought to myself, “shipping will pick back up”. . . I might have had a little bit of an attitude, but I hadn’t been out of school that long and had only sailed as a 3rd Assistant prior to making the jump. My first trip was with an old engineer from Puerto Rico and we shifted an older tug that was laid up in Lake Charles down to San Juan. A truly humbling experience. . . . now this wasn’t quite the same as getting into the oil patch, but it was dealing with a completely different type of work from what I was used to. Now, I did sail as a Day Third, and I do like working with my hands, so that wasn’t a problem. In fact, I came to really appreciate the tug lifestyle and it served me well there and later when I moved over to ATB work. . . not to say I didn’t sail with an aloof captain every now and then, or there were some assistant engineers that didn’t like my style. . . . .

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Haha! As usual, dick measuring contests know no boundaries, across the spectrum of the seagoing jobs…hell really any job in general.

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[QUOTE=Fraqrat;170442]I was never a fan of how formal deep sea ships operated. Every ship I sailed on if I spoke to the chief he would have this incredulous look on his face. I would get stared down with the “why are you even talking to me face” every time. Separate mess/lounges always felt like us against them type deal. As a young wiper/qmed I would choose the appropriate times and ask questions and usually get ignored or brushed off. Usually the 2nd or 3rd would answer my questions off to the side. In this most recent boom I’ve had to train and sign off many blue water chiefs and 1A/E’s. Almost everyone could not believe they had to interact with the “lowly” wipers and qmed’s. They all assumed they would get that instant respect their rank afforded. Normally I would never chastise a junior officer in public but I broke my own rule for one guy. At lunch he loudly proclaimed if this was his last ship he would not even be speaking to qmed’s. I loudly proclaimed to him in front of 18 crew members that maybe he should go back there as he was being disrespectful to a shipmate. He stated he would not be second guessed by a mud boat qmed. I then informed him he wasn’t in charge of the watch that the qmed was. Further I had instructed the qmed to wake me before he did anything stupid. I hated being brushed off in my early days so I have made it a point to not do that to my wipers/qmed’s. How can you train your people if you don’t interact with them?[/QUOTE]

I think it’s important to build up the capabilities of the crew. I think it critical. Being aloof, pompous etc is the wrong approach. The Chief could have used your question as a chance to let you know he appreciated your contribution and your willingness to take on more responsibility. He also could have taken a moment to demonstrate his approach to solving problems.

On one hand there is a need to be mindful of the hierarchy but on the other hand there’s no reason to walk around like someone stuck a broom up your ass. It’s not that difficult.

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All that is very true. I would like to point out one thing though. You mentioned an us/them mentality. Quite often there actually is one. One that goes both ways due to rival unions being on the same boat. Before (and for a few months after) the affiliation between SIU & AMO, on the tanker I was on, there were absolutely no officers allowed in the crew mess by order of the ship’s union rep (bosun and then pumpman). Meals were free speech times for union gripes and having an “unfriendly” union member was tantamount to having a spy in their midst.

So it’s not always snootiness. Sometimes there are other factors involved. After the AMO/SIU affiliation it was a lot freer, but if an officer had to eat in the crew mess due to overflow in the officers mess (agents, company reps, customs, etc eating there), one was still expected to knock and ask permission to enter out of courtesy. (Freely granted for most, but there was a second mate I worked with that ate standing up in the passageway more than once after pissing off the crew.)