[QUOTE=company man 1;34425]I don’t know if you work in the business, but if you do & have ever run casing can you tell me if laying down 3 40’ joints of casing in a 3000’ run is usual?[/QUOTE]
No, I can’t tell you that. So what does that have to do with the accusation that BP knowingly risked losing billions in this disaster to save a relatively trivial amount of money by “cutting corners”?
[QUOTE=KASOL;34484]Read: http://energycommerce.house.gov/documents/20100527/BP.Presentation.pdf we know a lot already. [/QUOTE]
Yes, I’ve looked at that document. What impresses me about it is the number of different things – both mechanical and human – that had to fail to get us to this point.
It appears that BP is intiminated by this forum and have hired a laywer to defend them …
We will ahve to wait for the result of the investigation, but it sure looks like BP strecthed the envelope and took unjust risk by well design and procedures leading up to this disaster
[QUOTE=MichaelWSmith;34488]Yes, I’ve looked at that document. What impresses me about it is the number of different things – both mechanical and human – that had to fail to get us to this point.[/QUOTE]
I read it differently - float or seal not holding - confused about what happens when displacing SW @ 8000ft - BOOM
[QUOTE=bnhpr;34477]The plan I heard today is to have the well killed before [B]td[/B]. DD2 stack is now fitted with an H4 connector and has a modified slick joint with vents and a plug. They will pull the DWH lmrp with the DD2 subsea winch , cut off the [B]fish[/B], latch the DD2 stack on (open and venting through holed riser joint), shut it in, kill the well. (Need to be careful not to damage the profile on the DWH stack). Pull the DD2 lmrp, and go back with normal riser, run the diverter etc. Standby.[/QUOTE]
td?
fish?
For the layman, a definition please?
[QUOTE=paloma;34489][B]It appears that BP is intiminated by this forum and have hired a laywer to defend them …
[/B]
We will ahve to wait for the result of the investigation, but it sure looks like BP strecthed the envelope and took unjust risk by well design and procedures leading up to this disaster[/QUOTE]
If this guy is a BP attorney, they’re gonna get mopped up pretty good.
[QUOTE=paloma;34464]Hook load reading of 350-400k is correct. String weight of 200 k plus weight of block and top drive is roughly 150k plus 20-40 k overpull against the annular. it all adds up just right[/QUOTE]
Aha, that gets pretty close: 200K x ~.85 bouyancy factor = 170K + 150K = 320K, but could they be pulling up when they are displacing sea water? would pumping down the string add 60K weight? or how accurate are those weight indicators?
[QUOTE=KASOL;34471]Some thoughs about the relief wells:
They will hit the flowing well just below the 9 7/8" liner and kill it in the annulus. I guess their biggest problem (worst case scenario) is if the well flows both outside and inside the 7" casing and the well is flowing from two zones sealed with cement. Annulus from top reservoir, inside liner from bottom and it has good cement in between. I am shooting from my hip now and thinking “loadly” as we say here in norway. [/QUOTE]
Could try milling through casing? But what cement and zones are you talking about? BPs schematic showed 53’ of pay on bottom below cement. If there was a zone above that wouldn’t they have cemented it?
[QUOTE=MichaelWSmith;34479]Then you are seeing what you want to see.
There are many tens of thousands of businesses operating around the world, which means there are many tens of thousands of CEOs at work – and yet disasters like this are exceedingly rare.
By contrast, those tens of thousands of businesses stay in business by providing goods and services valuable to their customers. Those businesses comprise the global economy that feeds, clothes and houses some 6+ billion human beings a day.
Those are not the sort of results one would expect if sociopaths were at the helm. So the evidence available to all of us contradicts your claim.[/QUOTE]
In this case, they are investigating to see how many GOM operators were bribing the MMS. Is bribing a regulatory agency sociopathological behavior?
[QUOTE=KASOL;34484]Read: http://energycommerce.house.gov/documents/20100527/BP.Presentation.pdf we know a lot already.
I do not know the MMS rules but according to NORSOK standard used in Norway there is a lot of “flaws” in BOP design, casing design, cement design and verification, barrier criteria and verification, operational procedures and execution. There will be new rules and regulation in the states, that I am sure.
BP: I think they really are doing everything they can. The fall back solution in all well planning is relief wells.
Look at this overview:
http://www.bp.com/liveassets/bp_internet/globalbp/globalbp_uk_english/incident_response/STAGING/local_assets/images/Simultaneous_operations_overview_large.jpg
BP have all Blow out experts in the world working for them. If something happens here in Norway they are all gone…[/QUOTE]
No worries, nothing will ever happen in Norway, remember you said you guys have better regulations and you follow all of them… so my plea for a back up surface bop wouldn’t even pertain to Norway… shit only happens to cowboys… or is it caused by over complacency…
edited to add: BTW, I do have deep respect for the technology you’ve developed in Norway, so thanks.
[QUOTE=DogsDogsDogs;34405] Quoting Visitor from NC “I’m thinking that we need an administrative (or legislative or judicial, I don’t care) decision that neither BP nor anyone else can “develop” this lease block (thus this tract’s access to whatever oil is left down there) ever. Ever. I say “nor anyone else” because that’s how it would have to work.”
I understand why BP would be kicked out, but why should no one else have access to this deposit and why would it “have” to work that way? This doesn’t make sense to me.
I pretty much agree with most of what you said, but Greenpeace and theater in the same sentence while saying they had accused someone else of it about made me drown my keyboard.
Oh! the irony![/QUOTE]
Please note that I am replying to this without getting 100% caught up on this thread.
The reason why I said/think that the reservoir (via that lease tract) should be put out of bounds “forever” is this:
a) x years means nothing, it has to be permanent, decision could be reversed later maybe.
b) more importantly, if another oil major or the gov "owns the asset"or could buy it, then there’s a motive to preserve acccess which I am thinking could affect decisions taken.
Please don’t take offense when I say “what about this concept is unclear?”
I’m happy to stand corrected (with explanation) re this issue.
I have seen other references to “engineering theater” more recently and I sense that a lot of folks on this board sense the same thing. No?
[QUOTE=MichaelWSmith;34479]Then you are seeing what you want to see.
There are many tens of thousands of businesses operating around the world, which means there are many tens of thousands of CEOs at work – and yet disasters like this are exceedingly rare. …
[/QUOTE]
Not so rare: Three-mile island, Chernobyl, Bhopal, Exxon Valdez, Thalidomide,
global warming, species extinction, bridge collapses, mine explosions, Port
Chicago munitions explosion. Heck, this isn’t even the first unstoppable
oil blowout in the Gulf of Mexico!
--bks[QUOTE=MichaelWSmith;34481]The fact that oil is leaking into the Gulf at a disastrous rate is proof that a disaster has occurred. It doesn’t tell us what caused the disaster.[/QUOTE]
Cause aside, the fact, as you put it, oil is leaking into the GOM at a disastrous rate means it is no “tiny spill” as Tony Hayward put it. As per this online dictionary definition of “sociopath”… http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/SOCIOPATH …a person, as a psychopathic personality, whose behavior is antisocial and who lacks a sense of moral responsibility or social conscience. Would you not then agree that the roman Emperor Nero was a sociopath ?
[QUOTE=KASOL;34463]You are usually more carefull when you M/U tubing and often you have experts from the manufactors out to run it. We should have had the same on the prod casing because it a very critical part of the barrier envelope. Normally only the csg crew run the casing. I have been on two HPHT wells where we have had gas leaks in premimum connections. The problem is that you do not discover these small leaks when you are in drilling operations. In both cases we got ok casing test using OBM. Both where found leaking after displaceing to clear fluid (no partickles) brine. So on the next well I am planning now I am demanding a Tenaris guy out.
The scary thing was when investigating the two incidents, in both cases the crew did not get the right M/U and shoulder but continued. In the first case they had L/D two joinst and it happened again. I guess they said %#¤¤ it, run it. So I now put in my drilling guidelines that the company man has to look at these M/U charts every day.[/QUOTE]
What method did you use to identify the leaks? Would it be worth it to hydro test going in the hole? What thread do you think they used on Macondo? Think it could have washed out and collapsed?
To MichaelWSmith
This is a reply to every single one of your extremely dumb posts. I am an extremely polite person (except when yelling at my TV or radio in private) and have never called out anyone on their comments before, but I will now. I hope I never have to again because it makes me very uncomfortable to do so.
I have heard or read all these bogus arguments/points/factoids over the years and all from corporate shills (which includes corporate funded think tanks and their op-eds). (A factoid is not a fact nugget, it is a false fact.)
Disasters are in fact happening every day and apparently you don’t read a single newspaper. People trust their food supply and the government agencies and the rule making system and the inspection system until their child dies from that particularly malignant form of E.Coli, then they start looking into it and find out what’s going on. You can repeat this pretty much all across the board. Money talks and BS walks or whatever.
You say you are “impressed” by the number of things that had to fail. Read that another way, and you are admitting that BP cut corners until there was nothing left but a spewing hole.
I have no horse in this race regarding who was at fault but you cannot possibly have read this thread or much else and be defending BP unless you have an agenda in doing so. This audience is not going to buy this nonsense.
In addition you keep responding with these other “trust us” points that have nothing to do with drilling which come from the PR folder about dealing with corporate defense all over the map.
So since I have called you out, file folders at high noon you ass, I will make disclosure as to who I am and am not. I have never worked in oil or gas or engineering. I once worked in advertising for a corporation for two years, but not PR, just advertising to doctors (bad enough but nothing like it is today) and retailers, otherwise in the medical field (non-medical aspects). Since the late 1980s I have spent some periods of time at those points where “the public” is allowed in the cracks between corporations and the institutions that are supposed to regulate them. So I am quite familiar with the BS stream of consciousness.
Consider me one of those annoying little old ladies in tennis shoes (I forget who came up with that, or when, not here) who is more interested in the truth because only the truth allows us to prevent disasters from happening, or happening again.
If you (MWS) are not in fact a paid corporate shill then boy do I feel sorry for you. You have drunk the KoolAid big time.
[QUOTE=MichaelWSmith;34485]Oh baloney. People are paid money to get results in virtually every business no earth. But disasters like this are rare. Please explain why – if the paying of such “incentives” is the root of all evil that you make it out to be – please explain why these disaster aren’t happening on a daily basis.[/QUOTE]
Disasters like this are rare because it used to only take one of them to break the fools who caused it. If you don’t see gross negligence or at least gross incompetence then you need to go back & read every poston this thread & look at every bit of evidence that has been posted with them. Then if you are not convinced, you are the same typ of person who claims the Holocaust didn’t occur.
[QUOTE=MichaelWSmith;34487]No, I can’t tell you that. So what does that have to do with the accusation that BP knowingly risked losing billions in this disaster to save a relatively trivial amount of money by “cutting corners”?[/QUOTE] The amount they were saving wasn’t trivial until the well blew out. That changed the the dynamics of their thinking a little.
Edit: That’s the problem with apologists like yourself. You act like when someone speeds down the road going 25 miles anohour over the speed limit all the time it is ok because their going to their very important job. That is more improtant than their safety & everyone else’s. So when they crash & kill a car load of kids we should excuse them because they do important work. BULLSHIT! These guys didn’t care about safety over there own companies policies. They sent out paper making everyone that was a department head sign off on casing that they knew stood a chance of collapsing in an overbalance situation. They were warned by one of their own don’t do it & they did it anyway. That is gross negligence.
They had loggers on sight to run a CBL on a job they were warned might not work & instead not only sent them home early, they displaced the well causing an underbalance condition before even testing the tools that were to keep them safe. If you don’t understand these things, you should sell your BP stock & buy some books form the API on why these are important steps that if a company doesn’t follow they should not ever be trusted to drill another hole on this planet.
[QUOTE=RiverPirate;34433]I was reading an article where a Matt Simmons says [B]“Top Kill” is a sideshow and the real problem is 5 to 7 miles away, where a second fissure is “releasing a plume the size of Delaware and Maryland combined.”
[/B]What do you guys think about this comment? Is it even possible this other release is out there? If so, how come nobody else is talking about this?
Link Below
I’m not superimpressed with Matt Simmon’s credentials in that predicting the price of oil would rise seems something a knowledgeable energy analyst could figure out.
If anyone has clicked on the video of the interview, what does Simmons say his source is for this “other fissure 5-7 miles away”? This sounds like total BS and I sure hope so.
[QUOTE=pumpjack hand;34499]No worries, nothing will ever happen in Norway, remember you said you guys have better regulations and you follow all of them… so my plea for a back up surface bop wouldn’t even pertain to Norway… shit only happens to cowboys… or is it caused by over complacency…
edited to add: BTW, I do have deep respect for the technology you’ve developed in Norway, so thanks.[/QUOTE]
This could happen in Norway but hopefully less likely due to other rules BUT The operator is responsible for the planning and the excecuting of the operations. When I deliver my drilling program to PTIL, our MMS, they do not approve it buy I state that I ( the company) will drill the well according too the regulations and rules here in Norway. They do audits, but they do not check every drilling program. We almost blew up Snorre A TLP platform a few years ago here so we have been close. For me as a drilling engineer it is important to have a good and clear set of rules. I think the rules are more detailed here than in GOM, but I do not know for sure.
[QUOTE=pumpjack hand;34503]What method did you use to identify the leaks? Would it be worth it to hydro test going in the hole? What thread do you think they used on Macondo? Think it could have washed out and collapsed?[/QUOTE]
When we performed new Pressure tests in the completion phase as required by the rules with clear Brine i.e no particles. I have no idea what they used on Macondo. I think what we se here is to big to be in a thread unless it completly failed due to bad make up.