[QUOTE=pumpjack hand;33930]I read a report on BBC over an hour ago that said they were back to pumping again, so they are doing whatever they are doing. But say the kill went into many zones, and say there’s a zone right above the pay that is thieving the oil now, but a zone or two above that that just got fraced and is now flowing back mud, they probably had like zero zonal control. Did they even use diverter? Or what was the plan?[/QUOTE]
If they fracked multiple zones that might not be a bad thing, but in this case with no real good data to draw from, you have to go with the most obvious evidence. As far as adding any fluid loss material for zonal isolation i doubt they really had a plan until they pumped on this thing & saw what it would do. In a normal situation with well seal, they could get good data for the right job. Without it, it’s just a wild guess.
[QUOTE=alvis;33938]Less and less is coming out of the riser!
http://www.bp.com/liveassets/bp_internet/globalbp/globalbp_uk_english/homepage/STAGING/local_assets/bp_homepage/html/rov_stream.html[/QUOTE]
That’s a good thing.
[QUOTE=jksoft;33934]Just a guess here but I would think they would want to use the mud with the least weight that is effective. I would think that the heavier weight mud would have a higher viscosity therefore require more HP to pump at the same flow rate. If they were concerned about the flow rate, they would probably have been trying to balance the desired flow rate with the desired weight of the kill. Once again, no oil knowledge here…just some general fluid mechanics.[/QUOTE]
You should email that to the company. It might be the best excuse they could come up with. Serously, horsepower isn’t there problem. They got plenty of mud down hole. The mud they put wasn’t heavy enough to stay.
[QUOTE=TroubledByThis;33943]I don’t work in the industry either, just a thinker. I agree with all you said, based on viscosity/flow rate as theory, not knowing specifics. But also consider that the [U]heavy mud being forced down the pipe [I]should[/I] [I]diminish flow rate[/I] as it fills the upper portion, offsetting pressure and flow as a denser mass pushes back the upflow[/U]. (aside from pump forces spewing out the top leaks)
Therefore it seems to me that afterward such light mud, then a denser, more viscous material could be pumped immediately in on top of that reduced flow rate produced by stage 1 of a (continuous) 2 or 3-stage pumping process of subsequently heavier more viscous materials, after the flow is reduced by earlier mud.
Pardon me, but I love this forum. Thanks for letting me add 2 cents. To me it does not seem as hoped or as “planned”, likely problems of a seam leak high relatively in the pipe … but I am NOT expert, rather just observing keenly and [I]speculating.[/I][/QUOTE]
Wow! did finals just finish at MIT? you guys are blowing my mind with the depth of questions & your statements. Observing the pumping operations & knowing that they have been flowing mud back all day long, I will say again that viscosity level on a 2 pound mud increase won’t be a problem for the pumps or the hoses. They are getting plenty of rate. All they need is weight.
"They aren’t circulating it they are bullheading it."
Ok I understand that but they were getting mud back to the riser for a long time presumably after pumping ceased. I’m assuming several formations/zones were giving it up, sending it back up outside of casing, as you mentioned. My question is this. How did the pumped mud get outside of the long string to begin with?
[QUOTE=Bob S;33954]"They aren’t circulating it they are bullheading it."
Ok I understand that but they were getting mud back to the riser for a long time presumably after pumping ceased. I’m assuming several formations/zones were giving it up, sending it back up outside of casing, as you mentioned. My question is this. How did the pumped mud get outside of the long string to begin with?[/QUOTE]
From the top of it on the outside.
[QUOTE=TroubledByThis;33943]I don’t work in the industry either, just a thinker. I agree with all you said, based on viscosity/flow rate as theory, not knowing specifics. But also consider that the [U]heavy mud being forced down the pipe [I]should[/I] [I]diminish flow rate[/I] as it fills the upper portion, offsetting pressure and flow as a denser mass pushes back the upflow[/U]. (aside from pump forces spewing out the top leaks)
Therefore it seems to me that afterward such light mud, then a denser, more viscous material could be pumped immediately in on top of that reduced flow rate produced by stage 1 of a (continuous) 2 or 3-stage pumping process of subsequently heavier more viscous materials, after the flow is reduced by earlier mud.
keenly and [I]speculating.[/I][/QUOTE]
I’m gonna try to take a back seat thursday night quarterback stab at this, much to the experts in this fields chagrin… (I hope it’s not that as I have learned more about drilling from you experts in this thread in 24 hours than I have in years as an investor/bsqb in oil stocks).
The entire problem with this mess is that all the conventional business thought of killing a well goes out the window because you’ve got a freakin huge, hard, steel pipe that’s collapsed 5k feet below, with holes and a massive gaping hole at the end where it severed. In my biz, some of it is related to manifold style plumbing… and a lot of other plumbing stuff as well, with a lot of dynamic forces up to around 300 gpm at 30-40 psi (pittance compared to this oil well).
I understand the fact that they are trying to lob a ton of heavier water (mud) into a hole, so much that if you get enough in there, the weight of the mud will stop the flow simply due to the weight of it down a hole thousands of feet + ocean water pressure.
But the way it seems to me they are going about this solution is simply wrong wrong wrong!
In my world, let’s say you have a 10 foot piece of 3" pvc pipe from home depot, sit it vertically on top of a big pump. Let’s say it will MAINTAIN 10psi, 250 gpm, with a 10 foot head, with a 2" exit port full vertical. (now that’s a serious pump). Whee, we now have a monster fountain. Then, install two pvc Tee’s in the middle of this pipe, both connected to smaller pumps, with heavier water, say rated for 125 gpm, 10 foot head, but yet are 100 feet away. I have never attempted such a feat, but in my mind, the big pump trumps BOTH small pumps simply because of capability and capacity. Anything that goes into the side Tees is added to the flow of the main pump, and shot out the end of the ‘stack/riser’ INSTANTLY. Nothing goes back into the main pump to slow it down because there is too much inertia there keeping things moving.
I’m following a lot of what company man 1 is saying and it makes sense. They CAN’T stop this with conventional well drilling methodology (by the book), and further in my own opinion, this is a dog and pony show for the world to try to limit their liabilities and buy time to find a solution.
Some observations:
-
They quit pumping mud at midnight Wednesday night. For what reason? So far, this is like top secret info. Ran out of mud perhaps? Evaluating results? Nothing specific in the MSM.
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What on earth have we been watching on the ROV since midnight Wednesday? Oil and Mud? Or just oil sludge with water + gas?
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Obviously, from a couple of internet posts/reports, they shut down because too much of the mud was escaping from the riser… so if that’s the case, what’s the source of the crap coming from the ROV anyway? It looks the same as when they started the top kill Wednesday, and never changed.
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Is this the ultimate conspiracy to hide the truth and buy time? (I keep adding buy time as an inference to the real thing… to put off the world, so they can have time to think and calculate what to do (without the capital one vikings banging at the door), as an actual honest thing, not evil kill the world bit you know).
There is one thing that CM1 echoed earlier: a junk shot not being out of the question that got me to join and post this. As this would make sense IMO.
The riser is the biggest problem they have. We can’t dive and cut, we can’t do squat down there except with a million dollar rov with limited abilities in a limited gravity environment. This sux.
There have been leak fix after leak fix solution out on the market since the beginning of time and I think it’s time to go back to the basics, and resort to a junk shot, but with matter that is on the order of matching/flexing to the leak sizes that are visualized by the ROV. They need a leak solution to close off the the leaks in the busted pipe FIRST, then start pumping mud. But how big is too big. How big’s that dang hole at the end of the pipe. From what I’ve read here, it’s like an 18" riser.
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Jeez, it would seem we need a flexible steel basketball to shoot into a 3" mud injection pipe to expand to fit an 18+" pipe? Is this even real? That could withstand 1400+ psi? (perhaps less is needed with heavy mud).
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For the other holes, go back to 1920 auto radiator basics… they used to use pepper to seal radiators in an emergency, so they need small matter that’s flexible that can plug those holes… like, shoot a bazillion rubber bb’s into the 3 inch pipe and hope some will end up there and plug this thing enough to continue to shoot heavy mud in the hole without it escaping out the same holes?
It seems like the physics of all of this is being ignored by the MSM because most reporters seem to have failed that class when they were shooting for (gag me) journalism majors. omg puke puke… blah… gimme a bud quick… or something.
It’s all about plugging holes, and these idiots, (I take license from cm1 to use that), have forgotten plumbing 101… and missed the boat.
What on earth were we seeing today (Thursday) on the rov? I find it hard to believe that a monster gpm thing is happening, and we’re dumping heavier mud into it and it dumps enough (1000’s of feet) to accumulate so that we can watch 18 hours of mud video being ejected from well pressure… or maybe I should call it modified oil video since the color changed… HELP! What am I seeing here all day?
Alright you guys, don’t flame me too much I’m new and I’m just trying to get my head around this thing. I have a very high respect for anyone that works in this industry (and have posted here!) as I know it is seriously dangerous work… I used to be a military recruiter, and had oil field guys come in all the time looking to join up with busted knees, pins in arm joints, missing fingers… all of it in the 80’s back when Texaco got whacked by Pennzoil. Unfortunately most couldn’t join simply because of the screwed up physical conditions caused by oil field work. I understand you folks.
Honestly I don’t even know enough about this biz to be dangerous, but I do have enough sense to question authority, and I’d really like to get some simple answers on how this stuff’s supposed to work.
I think, that due to the lack of specific answers to date, that they don’t know either (and they’re notebook testing every scenario). The relief well may be the only solution, and our beaches in the gulf are probably toast.
Thanks a lot!
[QUOTE=company man 1;33956]From the top of it on the outside.[/QUOTE]
Wow, perhaps I posted my long response too early to see this one. Bob S seems to be on the ball much more than me, can you explain your thoughts on this answer? Very interesting to say the least.
Thank You.
[QUOTE=Anchor Guy;33918]I am presently working aboard a production facility which has a “temporary” drilling rig onboard. We were just notified that as of 1845 this evening, we have ceased all drilling operations as per instructions from town. This appears to be a bit much as we are using a “surface” BOP and drilling through existing production riser.[/QUOTE]
I agree, it is a bit much. Now our entire way of life is truly devastated–our seafood industry, our tourism industry and now our oilfield industry.
For those proponents of the moratorium on drilling activity in U.S. territorial waters, I say, [B]“DON’T TALK WITH YOUR TANKS FULL!”[/B]
Bar sinks.
The reason you didn’t see any color change since yesterday is simple. that’s because they started pumping yesterday morning as I reported & was rebuffed unmercifully by the untrained visitors to the thread. I was told in no uncertain terms that BP would or wouldnot pump without the Coast Guard knowing what they were doing at all times. You may check the previous days posts & review for giggles. Then we see Admiral Allen & Mary Landry on TV this afternoon giving an update on the ongoing pumping & right after that Doug Settles state there had been no pumping since midnight lsat night. The fact of the matter is if they get heavey enough mud in the hole they can kill the well. Whether they get the cement job pumped in a manner that allows it to set is another thing. You were seeing mud coming out of the stack today all day long, because they were pumping a lot of mud last night along with mud from yesterday. They pumped at least 25,000 Bbls. of mud & may have pumped as much as 70,000 Bbls. of mud. Seeingthat mud is much heavier & denser than oil the mud will not flow back as fast as the oil si ut would take much longer to flow back say 25,000 to 70,000 Bbls.
Unfortunately,that’s the probllem when you have an irresponsible company that is only worried about covering their butts in front of an ignorant media with a progressive congress & president in front of a very scared group of concerned citizens.[QUOTE=PARADISELOST;33960]I agree, it is a bit much. Now our entire way of life is truly devastated–our seafood industry, our tourism industry and now our oilfield industry.
For those proponents of the moratorium on drilling activity in U.S. territorial waters, I say, [B]“DON’T TALK WITH YOUR TANKS FULL!”[/B][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=dumgeek;33906]Hello I’m new and don’t know much about this business… My question is, is what happened to the original hydraulic lines that had the capability to shut down this bop? Would it have been realistic to think that they could run new ones to it and try to shut it down that way? Or is that beyond the limits of the ROV?
Apologies if this has been discussed before but I’ve spent hours reading most of the posts, and haven’t seen it addressed.[/QUOTE]
Welcome dumgeek. The posts you are looking for would be somewhere towards the 2nd or 3rd day of posts once we all started getting over the shock & began trying to sort out how something like this could happen with all the barriers (both training & equipment-wise) to prevent such an incident (& there were numerous backups & safety systems in place, despite what you have probably heard from the media folks. . . many of whom are much better at making sensationalist claims than they are at actually researching a topic before they feed a bunch of blatantly incorrect information to the public who naturally assumes the information to be valid). Sorry, let me move my soap box before I trip over it.
I’ll try to run through the quick version to get you up to speed re your questions. Anyone else feel free to jump in & correct me if I miss something, or am out in left field on something in your area of expertise. Originally, normal hydraulic pressure to the stack was supplied via conduit lines attached to the riser which were fed from the koomey unit on the rig. Additionally, the stack is equipped with subsea accumulators designed to supply pressure to actuate BOP functions in the event of a loss of communication with the systems on the rig. Having said that, the ROVs were used to try & cycle the blind shear rams early on & they would not close completely to close off the wellbore. It is unknown if this was due to a tool joint being in the way (shear rams are NOT designed to cut through collars or any of the tool joints used) of if it was because the stack was damaged by the blowout.
Life at last. Thanks so much for your answer. The lines that are pumping in the mud, are not the same hydraulic lines that were supposed to be in place for closing the bop (ie hydraulics that failed at the moment of explosion)? Shoot, I need to go to bop school it seems.
Thanks again.
[QUOTE=PARADISELOST;31564]After the recent West Virginia mine disaster, survivors sent the message: “The next time you turn on the light switch, remember the coal miners.” I say:
[I]The next time you start your car, remember those 11 Deepwater Horizon workers and the families left behind. [/I]
Our thoughts and prayers are with them all.[/QUOTE]
Like Obama, I’m sure the mothers and the wives also say, “This is what I wake up to in the morning, and this is what I go to sleep to at night.”
This Memorial Day weekend, remember the Eleven.
[QUOTE=PARADISELOST;33960]I agree, it is a bit much. Now our entire way of life is truly devastated–our seafood industry, our tourism industry and now our oilfield industry.
For those proponents of the moratorium on drilling activity in U.S. territorial waters, I say, [B]“DON’T TALK WITH YOUR TANKS FULL!”[/B][/QUOTE]
[I]Time Capsule Quotes below, full of irony, sad for me, for the lost workers, and as an independent USAmerican:[/I]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]873[/ATTACH]
[B] [/B]
[B][I]09/14/2006 , about 3 years ago:[/I][/B]
[B][SIZE=3]Gulf of Mexico: New Technology Delivers Oil Jackpot[/SIZE][/B]
The United States oil giant Chevron announced last week that it has discovered an enormous treasure that dates back to the Eocene period. The amount of oil and natural gas discovered may be as much as 15 billion barrels.[U] If that estimate is correct, then US oil reserves have increased by 50 percent overnight[/U].
As recently as 10 years ago, such deep drilling would have been technically impossible. It’s only the construction of special drillships constructed for deep drilling that has allowed oil reserves as deep as 10,000 meters (32,808 feet) to be tapped.
[B]Kent Klein | White House 31 March 2010 [I]- about 2 months ago:[/I][/B]
[B]Obama to Lift Ban on Offshore Oil Drilling [/B]
President Barack Obama announced plans Wednesday to reverse a decades-old U.S. ban on new drilling for oil and natural gas off some parts of the country’s shores. The president’s decision also reverses a stance he took in the 2008 election campaign.
“So today, we are announcing the expansion of offshore oil and gas exploration, but in ways that balance the need to [U]harness domestic energy resources[/U] and the [U]need to protect America’s natural resources[/U],” said President Obama.
“This announcement is part of a broader strategy that will move us from an economy that runs on fossil fuels and foreign oil to one that relies more on homegrown fuels and clean energy,” said Mr. Obama.
[U]The president also cautioned that allowing more drilling will not solve America’s energy challenges[/U]. “[U]We have less than two percent of the world’s oil reserves[/U],” said the president. “We consume more than 20 percent of the world’s oil. What that means is that drilling alone cannot come close to meeting our long-term energy needs.”
[U][SIZE=2]http://www1.voanews.com/english/news/usa/Obama-Announces-Expansion-of-Offshore-Oil-Exploration-89613157.html[/SIZE][/U]
[I]How many badly needed industries have been hurt? Such a tragedy and irony … so now the country will be changed in a big way. Once at Pearl Harbor we got hit by surprise almost like this. Then there was 9-11. But they were deliberate. Perpetrators were prosecuted … sort of.[/I]
[QUOTE=rlanasa;33820]So let me get this straight you claim that while thousands of eyes were watching yesterday morning only your skilled vision caught the images of 18,000 column feet mud going doing followed by 18,000 feet of cement going down then you saw the well upchuck the combined volume of the two loads back up. All of this happened in secret long before the 1PM time when the go ahead to start was granted by the US Government? Then you will have us believe that with well more than 1000 oil industry professionals directly engaged in the process a CG Admiral and senior executives came out and lied to us all live on global television.
You should go on Larry King tonight.
sS[/QUOTE]
Did you get a hold of Larry yet ? Tell him I’ll be available a week from Monday.
[QUOTE=rlanasa;33849]Let me try this one more time for you. There are industry professionals from every meaningful company and role working on this issue 7X24. When the dust settles and the last Bbl stops there will be no secrets on how this hole was fixed. Too many talented people watching in too many locations. When things go this bad with this many people involved the truth always comes out.
If you want you can go back to your dreams of secret high volume deep water pumping actions now.[/QUOTE]
" We are killing the American Army. We are driving them back into the sea. Very soon now we will have total victory for our glorious leader Sadaam Hussein," Said Baghdad Bob as the American tanks rolled over the hill.
Well Rlanasa, it seems as though I wasn’t the only one capable of having dreams of high volume deep water pumping jobs that weren’t happening. What did you say about BP not making a move without notifying the Coast Guard first?
[QUOTE=rlanasa;33670]They were not doing anything… They just got Coast Guard approval to go now it is up to BP. The BP Chairman has stated he will make this call himself later today.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=rlanasa;33697]They are pumping 1 barrel per minute[/QUOTE]
God will roast their stomachs in hell at the hands of Iraqis."'We have destroyed 2 tanks, fighter planes, 2 helicopters and their shovels - We have driven them back."
“Surrender or be burned in their tanks.”
“We have them surrounded in their tanks”