[QUOTE=AHTF;40134]ooohh alcooor you little devil you… yer a Jew from [B]Gethsemane[/B]. was it lonely in those informative years?
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_4_CUy_G2IGw/S0TOIVyh25I/AAAAAAAAATU/r3gNjn0W3CI/s640/100_0420.JPG[/QUOTE]
Knock it off AHTF.
I have yet to see you write anything that is useful in this thread. There is plenty of substance to be upset about, and plenty of substance to comment on.
[QUOTE=27182;40156]You should read up on the TP that was killed if you have any doubts (he started out chipping paint, since that seems to be important to you)[/QUOTE]
Thanks 27182 for the BOP summary.
W.r.t. the paint chipper: that’s the other end of the spectrum. Maybe this guy never should have been a TP based on what I know of paint chippers …
I wrote that I like the old grooming process of Company Men (that produced mainly good ones but also some bad ones…) because as AD, derrickman and driller they got a good understanding of BOP equipment, tank layouts & management, importance of bottoms up, danger of LCM pills across the wellhead & in close proximity to the choke line. They probably also chipped out barite out of choke lines, etc. etc. All stuff that would have done them tons of good preventing this incident.
Tell you something else. I was hired a long time ago by one of the Majors with an engineering degree but they insisted I work on the rigs as a roughneck, derrickman, AD and driller before I became an engineer in the office. I still remember them telling me that they had too many ‘soft’ engineers in the office who designed silly stuff for the rigs that could not be used or was not used by the rig crews and they told me that if I wanted to be a good engineer it would do me a world of good to actually work on the rigs and get some basic experience there: not ‘superficial’ experience like that ‘I don’t recall’ clown yesterday. Since then have been in charge of some of the biggest rigs worldwide but am doing something else now - but am very tempted to come back …
[QUOTE=27182;40156]Lower level people (up to the TP, and possibly even one of the Company Men) had raised concerns on multiple occasions which were rejected by company decision makers on the rig and on the beach. This is a failure of the organizational process.[/QUOTE]
If this is true you are correct but let me make clear that Transocean was responsible for the safety of the rig and its people. If drill floor personel had concerns they should have approached their Toolpusher who should have approached his Rig Manager in town who should have given authority to shut the rig down if he concurred that the operational steps were unsafe. BP could have jumped up and down but the buck stopped with Transocean in this case. BP can not tell Transocean not to shut down, especially since the well was cased off.
[QUOTE=ExCompanyMan;40159]W.r.t. the paint chipper: that’s the other end of the spectrum. Maybe this guy never should have been a TP based on what I know of paint chippers …[/QUOTE]
Look buddy, I said look him up before you shoot your mouth off.
[QUOTE=ExCompanyMan;40159] I wrote that I like the old grooming process of Company Men…[/QUOTE]
I understood exactly what you meant. It’s similar to what we call “Eating your own dog food” in Engineering.
[QUOTE=ExCompanyMan;40159]Tell you something else. I was hired a long time ago by one of the Majors with an engineering degree but they insisted I work on the rigs as a roughneck, derrickman, AD and driller before I became an engineer in the office. I still remember them telling me that they had too many ‘soft’ engineers in the office who designed silly stuff for the rigs that could not be used or was not used by the rig crews and they told me that if I wanted to be a good engineer it would do me a world of good to actually work on the rigs and get some basic experience there: not ‘superficial’ experience like that ‘I don’t recall’ clown yesterday. Since then have been in charge of some of the biggest rigs worldwide but am doing something else now - but am very tempted to come back …[/QUOTE]
Well congratulations, and good for you. But we’re all in the peanut gallery now. I wouldn’t dare say that there were no operational mistakes, as that’s clearly not the case either. But I’m going to give the benefit of the doubt to the rigfloor crew, especially the deceased.
If you want to start naming people; play armchair quarterback / devil’s advocate. I’ll do one for you.
Q. What does it mean when an industry veteran OIM such as Jimmy Harrell says a thing like [I]“I guess that’s what we have them pinchers for.”[/I]?
A. I’ll tell you. It means Harrell was too big of a coward to throw BP’s men off his ship.
And why? He knew he’d be fired, and replaced with someone who understood. Stop work authority my ass. The OIM didn’t even have it. It’s called a Hobson’s choice. Look it up if you don’t know.
As far as that clown yesterday, he’s a clown. That’s why they put him there. That’s about as close as the Coast Guard hearing is likely to get to BP. Especially since they’ve started naming targets. Nobody (of any significance) whose lawyer can fog a mirror would let them testify now.
It is easy to blame the deceased in these types of events. They hardly ever even bother to deny it.
Yeah, you’ve hit a nerve, a couple of them.
[QUOTE=ExCompanyMan;40160]If this is true you are correct but let me make clear that Transocean was responsible for the safety of the rig and its people.[/QUOTE]
Absolutely!
[QUOTE=ExCompanyMan;40160] If drill floor personel had concerns they should have approached their Toolpusher who should have approached his [/QUOTE]
This gets done once or twice, once the plebs see their boss (Harrell) capitulate, the bar is set. Those that appreciate being employed know to keep their mouths shut.
[QUOTE=ExCompanyMan;40160]Rig Manager in town who should have given authority to shut the rig down if he concurred that the operational steps were unsafe.[/QUOTE]
As I related in my previous post. Harrell obviously thought very little of the BP plan that day.
[QUOTE=ExCompanyMan;40160] BP could have jumped up and down but the buck stopped with Transocean in this case. BP can not tell Transocean not to shut down, especially since the well was cased off.[/QUOTE]
BP can fire Transocean, and find a drilling contractor that [I]will.[/I]
[QUOTE=27182;40165]Absolutely!
This gets done once or twice, once the plebs see their boss (Harrell) capitulate, the bar is set. Those that appreciate being employed know to keep their mouths shut.
As I related in my previous post. Harrell obviously thought very little of the BP plan that day.
BP can fire Transocean, and find a drilling contractor that [I]will.[/I][/QUOTE]
This goes directly in to the category of “more than one thing can be true”, a concept people like Alcor have a hard time wrapping their head around.
My take:
“BP has [I]ultimate[/I] responsibility for this disaster since they planned it, were the ultimate authority, knew the risks and disregarded them, [I]despite[/I] TO’s authority to shutdown their own rig, and [I]despite[/I] MMS authority to disapprove their plan.”
Contrasted this with Alcor’s take:
"BP has [I]limited[/I] responsibility for this disaster [I]regardless of whether[/I] they planned it, were the ultimate authority, knew the risks and disregarded them, [I]because of[/I] TO’s authority to shutdown their own rig, and [I]because of[/I] MMS authority to disapprove their plan.
This may sound like semantics; it is anything but.
question : when a blowout is occurring, is there enough vibration going on, so that there is risk of the sheers, of being displaced along the riser, where the blades, are cutting thru a thick “joint”? there-by causing an incomplete ‘‘cut’’, on the riser?
[QUOTE=27182;40165]
Those that appreciate being employed know to keep their mouths shut.
BP can fire Transocean, and find a drilling contractor that [I]will.[/I][/QUOTE]
Cowboy Culture; just blew me away when reading it - root cause of incident? Sorry you guys have to work like that if it is prevalent (or was it just typical on BP rigs?). I can tell you it is (was) different elsewhere in the world.
[QUOTE=CPTdrillersails;40166]This goes directly in to the category of “more than one thing can be true”, a concept people like Alcor have a hard time wrapping their head around.
My take:
“BP has [I]ultimate[/I] responsibility for this disaster since they planned it, were the ultimate authority, knew the risks and disregarded them, [I]despite[/I] TO’s authority to shutdown their own rig, and [I]despite[/I] MMS authority to disapprove their plan.”
Contrasted this with Alcor’s take:
"BP has [I]limited[/I] responsibility for this disaster [I]regardless of whether[/I] they planned it, were the ultimate authority, knew the risks and disregarded them, [I]because of[/I] TO’s authority to shutdown their own rig, and [I]because of[/I] MMS authority to disapprove their plan.
This may sound like semantics; it is anything but.[/QUOTE]
Don’t misquote me.
This is your version or understanding of something I’ve written. It is completely inaccurate.
BP, are responsible contractually for any spill, and the cost of the clean-up. Their obligation is being met.
As to who is responsible for the blowout, it appears at this point to me that BP, TO and MMS have all had a hand in the demise of the DWH.
I realise many of you wish it was as simple as blaming BP exclusively, but this is not the case. In my opinion, Halliburton have nothing to answer for.
Also, BP are in partnership with two other investment partners, who cannot just expect the spoils when operations go awry.
But, there is so much more at stake. I believe that the ‘Cowboy Culture’ alive in the GOM has to change.
Gents, trying to catch the testimony videos from the last two days. Until the service tech comes out with my new modem, I am only getting 2 minute snippets. Overall there seems to be way too many “chiefs” and they are stumbling over each other, not professing who had ultimate responsibility. Somehow that seems unreal to me, and a product of coaching by counsel. How says you who have been there and done it. Is the responsibility chain as muddy as they are portraying? Is this their chosen technique to diffuse responsibility and hence guilt?
[QUOTE=New Orleans Lady;40167]question : when a blowout is occurring, is there enough vibration going on, so that there is risk of the sheers, of being displaced along the riser, where the blades, are cutting thru a thick “joint”? there-by causing an incomplete ‘‘cut’’, on the riser?[/QUOTE]
Good question. A BOP Shear Ram is only designed to shear drill pipe. Care must be taken to ensure that collars, joints, tools, etc are not in the Shear Ram’s jaws.
A BOP is composed of several different kinds of rams. The Shear Ram is the last resort. But a BOP is not a magical fail-safe device.
27182 what is your experience with the O&G industry?
[QUOTE=New Orleans Lady;40173]27182 what is your experience with the O&G industry?[/QUOTE]
I grew up around it. I live on the Gulf Coast. I have friend and neighbors in it. Some in the GOM right now. I’ve worked in it (from oilfield services all the way to refineries) for a few years during and after college. I’ve never worked offshore, or on any rig floor. I got out of it (working in the oilpatch) because I didn’t like the way things were done. (and looking for greener pastures). Now I have some O&G clients, in a manner of speaking. So with my posts and everything else you read on the internets, read it with a skeptical eye.
[QUOTE=ExCompanyMan;40168]Cowboy Culture; just blew me away when reading it - root cause of incident? Sorry you guys have to work like that if it is prevalent (or was it just typical on BP rigs?). I can tell you it is (was) different elsewhere in the world.[/QUOTE]
Note this difference : On a rig offshore , an employee has the option to refuse an assignment or even quit, but he cannot “walk-off” site…available transport via boat or helo may be hours or even a day delayed. Thus despite even an immediate severe danger, he is [B]forced to remain in area and[/B] [B]at-risk[/B] . He must await transport that is not under his control.
Ashore, he usually can quit and leave the area within few minutes.
Ross Skidmore, subsea well supervisor,just came on the scene,so right there, his authority, is minimized, and his non agressive behavior, gives me the sense, he did not want to ruffle the feathers,and being the new kid on the block,he would tend to be “led”…Leadership, taking ownership really lacked on april 2oth… A plaque, with the names of the 11 men who died should be hung on every rig, as a reminder,"Have the balls , guys, to speak up, and protect your selves, and your fellow workers, even if you are just hired, to clean the toilets. We have become so darn, passive,scared,cowards!!! Shame , on US!!
Okay, so I’ll knock the shit out of the next englishman/ scotsman I see. Feel better now. Obviously those people have abandoned all moral responsibility for the love of money.
they do make good whiskey, tho. And I m half irish,so I m partial!!
would any of you mind if I referred, Anderson Cooper to you?
[QUOTE=alcor;40122]Remember,
Your fellow countrymen made all decisions regarding this well. How high up that goes, we’ll find out in time.
Meantime, ‘Cowboy Culture’ is apparent in the GOM, whereas, not internationally! It’s a bitter pill to swallow and digest, but ignore the warning at your peril!!!
Easier to put the blame on the high and mighty BP CEO!!!
Regarding, the well flowing or not, there’s an easy way to satisfy your anxiety. Run logging tools down the Relief Well and ‘listen’ for flow. I would imagine that BP have already done this, but you seem happier alarming the whole of the US citizens with your paranoid rantings.
Again, leave the assessment to the experts. Your amateur sensationalist style liken you to the very ‘cheap’ newspapers, constantly suggesting distorted truths.[/QUOTE]
The same experts who came up with the square dome or the ones who came up with pumping golf balls down the well to plug an 8 inch hole? You call these people experts that have caused the biggest fuck up in the history of the oilfield, the history, of the United States, the history of the corporate world, & I’m the one who’s dillusional? What kind of mushrooms are you guys eating over there? I have simply looked at the video which was posted on you tube & linked by this message board a couple of days ago & posted what another poster IM’d me about a couple of days before the admission of leaks regarding what everyone on that location already knows to be true. I know that sounds like paranoid ranting to someone who can’t deal with the reality that their retirement portfolio is about to be wiped out, but like I said, it is what it is. Deal with it asshole. At least that shit hole of a place you call home didn’t get screwed up any worse, if it’s possible it could be.
Static kill could begin with in 48 hrs,what is ya lls take on that? http://www.cnn.com/2010/us/07/21/gulf.oil.disaster/index.html?video=true?video=true&hpt=T1