[QUOTE=pumpjack hand;38323]Any floor hands reading along here? If you heard one driller say, “Our well control system can control any kick situation and save your life if we react and implement according to procedure,” and then also heard another driller say, “Our well control system can usually control any kick situation if the engineers and company men and pushers have done their job properly, trust them,” which driller would you want to go out with?
In this highly emotionally charged very verbose discussion here we may have lost sight of what the bottom line is in order to get back to work. Or am I not seeing the forest for the trees?[/QUOTE]
I’m not a floorhand but I spend a lot of time on the floor. I would trust the first driller - ie the well control system in place can control any kick situation and save life if we react and implement according to procedure IF AND ONLY IF, PROVIDED engineers and company men and pushers have done their job properly, like for example selecting a BOP with a Working Pressure rated to handle maximum anticipated well-bore pressures.
[QUOTE=pumpjack hand;38323]Any floor hands reading along here? If you heard one driller say, “Our well control system can control any kick situation and save your life if we react and implement according to procedure,” and then also heard another driller say, “Our well control system can usually control any kick situation if the engineers and company men and pushers have done their job properly, trust them,” which driller would you want to go out with?
In this highly emotionally charged very verbose discussion here we may have lost sight of what the bottom line is in order to get back to work. Or am I not seeing the forest for the trees?[/QUOTE]
Pumping jack, I agree with you r premise that No company is or could have expected to be prepared for a blowout of this magnitude. I agree that no matter how much testing, certification, regulation, & oversight we make, There is still a very small minute chance there will be a well control occurance. That is why & especially why in deep water drilling where the stakes are so high that these companies must do everything to avoid what happened to the DWH. I respect your input & opinion, but have heard you say that the other operators are just as bad at throwing caution to the wind in well design & cost cutting in cement design, etc. That is obviously not accurate. When one of the heads of the rest of the five families testified before congress. He was as honest as a man can be about it. He said no matter what you do or how many boats you have or how much boom, if there is an occurance like this its gonna catch you with your pants down. He further went on toi state that’s why prevention is the only way to focus. These guys all said they would have never allowed a well design like this to make it to the field. I have heardno one in the United States disagree. The only thing even the enemies of drilling can come up with is an inadequate spill response plan used by all the operators.
I have a feeling that is about to get updated, but the things the operators knew about which was prevention, are being done differently with a different attitude at the other operators. If it weren’t so some one like you know who or others would have posted some kind of experience or evidence by now. The truth is once again, Prevention is the only solution. If there is any doubt err on the side of caution, not the side of risk. In the grand scheme of things, was BP’s game plan of save a buck before anything else worth it to them? In their minds the big picture for them is possibly. If they survive, it means they were granted dispensation to contimue operation, which will be construed by their management as acceptable necessary risk. How do I know this? Look at their track record across the spectrum of their company.
The way WE get back to work is to quit blaming all the industry for the ingrained outlaw mentality of one & punish the one to the maximum of the law. That sends the message to any other possible outlaw regime that they will pay the price for not erring on the side of caution. When that message is conveyed to all, it will resonate for generations to come & there will never be another MC 252 Macondo #1.
The President and or the Congress have not yet defined what “the bottom line is in order to get back to work”. There is very real risk the US offshore oil industry is finished. The entire 100% !!! Congregational delegation has come out very publicly against any offshore drilling in the GOM. Today Louisiana and Mississippi are the only states pressing to reopen the Gulf. With Florida controlling most of the recent presidential elections every day we get closer to the election in 2012 the stronger the chance the GOM will remain closed until the next global crude oil shortage. Once the rigs sail to another part of the world it will take 10 years to reopen exploration. We have days to get the GOM open or lose it for this generation. You will also find some who position the GOM as a gigantic strategic oil reserve only to be used in a time of crisis.
This spring marked the last days of work for 1000’s in the GOM for 1000’s. How is your Portuguese and Chinese?
[QUOTE=pumpjack hand;38323]Any floor hands reading along here? If you heard one driller say, “Our well control system can control any kick situation and save your life if we react and implement according to procedure,” and then also heard another driller say, “Our well control system can usually control any kick situation if the engineers and company men and pushers have done their job properly, trust them,” which driller would you want to go out with?
In this highly emotionally charged very verbose discussion here we may have lost sight of what the bottom line is in order to get back to work. Or am I not seeing the forest for the trees?[/QUOTE]
Dear Charlie, re your post #4086, I was observing, a ROV, about 2 weeks ago, descend from the ship, to the ocean floor, and it was examing every joint on the riser. I noted it spent considerable time observing joint #18…<numbers marked ea joint, and were in descending order> >joint 18 - 21, , I noted a black wire, hanging from the riser,as if it was cut, insted of being connected, as it was above, on the riser, a part of the external aspect of the riser>. which my very limited knowledge, made me wonder if it controlled the hydralic fluid> it was about 2 inches in diameter. Any thoughts? If not I understand.,cause I am an ameteur.
[QUOTE=rlanasa;38328]The President and or the Congress have not yet defined what “the bottom line is in order to get back to work”. There is very real risk the US offshore oil industry is finished. The entire 100% !!! Congregational delegation has come out very publicly against any offshore drilling in the GOM. Today Louisiana and Mississippi are the only states pressing to reopen the Gulf. With Florida controlling most of the recent presidential elections every day we get closer to the election in 2012 the stronger the chance the GOM will remain closed until the next global crude oil shortage. Once the rigs sail to another part of the world it will take 10 years to reopen exploration. We have days to get the GOM open or lose it for this generation. You will also find some who position the GOM as a gigantic strategic oil reserve only to be used in a time of crisis.
This spring marked the last days of work for 1000’s in the GOM for 1000’s. How is your Portuguese and Chinese?[/QUOTE]
I have been through the slowdowns of 83-86, 98-2000, & 09-? We were just coming out of an economic crisis when this disaster occured & will put us right back down to where we were. Of course their will be no bail out of the oil industry, because there is never a bail out of the oil industry. There wasn’t during Regan. There wasn’t during Clinton. There won’t be because of Obama. The oil industry has survived because of one thing. The overriding need to survive. The president can get up & act however he wishes, but when the rubber meets the road & gas goes back to $5 or more per gallon, I guarantee the rigs will go wherever it is most feasible to drill & produce. It is amazing how survival always wins out over politics. That is why for the survival of the GOM we can’t afford another disaster like this. That is why we need to get this thing done, punish the guilty, clean up the mess, & move on with a lesson learned. We can hold hands on a beach & that’s real sweet, but people start having to walk or ride bicycles everywhere & the cumbaya is going out the window quick.
[QUOTE=sutluc;38327]kwCharlie, what are they doing with that 2000+ lines of PLC code? Surely it can’t take that much to operate the BOP?[/QUOTE]
That’s lines of Statement Logic code NOT Ladder Logic. It takes 50 to maybe 200 lines of SL to make a Stop Light work right.
Oil spill begins washing on to Mississippi mainland
OCEAN SPRINGS, Miss. — Globs of gooey oil began washing ashore the Mississippi mainland for the first time Sunday morning, coating the shoreline near the Lake Mars landing in Gulf Park Estates.
Officials with state departments of marine resources and environmental quality closed the surrounding fishing waters and ordered numerous fishermen away from the area.
The next high tide is scheduled for today at 11:30 a.m
[QUOTE=New Orleans Lady;38330]Dear Charlie, re your post #4086, I was observing, a ROV, about 2 weeks ago, descend from the ship, to the ocean floor, and it was examing every joint on the riser. I noted it spent considerable time observing joint #18…<numbers marked ea joint, and were in descending order> >joint 18 - 21, , I noted a black wire, hanging from the riser,as if it was cut, insted of being connected, as it was above, on the riser, a part of the external aspect of the riser>. which my very limited knowledge, made me wonder if it controlled the hydralic fluid> it was about 2 inches in diameter. Any thoughts? If not I understand.,cause I am an ameteur.[/QUOTE]
No wires on the riser, all down 2, about a foot diameter yellow and blue tubes yards away from riser but going down parallel to it.
[QUOTE=Texanne;38331]I wonder what rhymes with rlanasa?[/QUOTE]
http://www.correntewire.com/oil_fail_next_acronym_lmrp_lower_marine_riser_package By okanogen on Sat, 05/29/2010 - 11:57am So spaketh bp. It has also been pointed out numerous times that when he/she throws in new and conflicting information that we would all be VERY happy to consider the information if given the source. Rlanasa has been asked numerous times to provide links or references regarding posts, but has not done so yet. On the up side though, some of the other forum members have spotted his/her exact words on other forums as part of posts by different individuals. . . . even if only the parts of the post which support his/her viewpoints were copied & pasted into this forum without being noted as being a direct quote from someone else.
[QUOTE=company man 1;38326]Pumping jack, I agree with you r premise that No company is or could have expected to be prepared for a blowout of this magnitude. I agree that no matter how much testing, certification, regulation, & oversight we make, There is still a very small minute chance there will be a well control occurance. That is why & especially why in deep water drilling where the stakes are so high that these companies must do everything to avoid what happened to the DWH. I respect your input & opinion, but have heard you say that the other operators are just as bad at throwing caution to the wind in well design & cost cutting in cement design, etc. That is obviously not accurate. When one of the heads of the rest of the five families testified before congress. He was as honest as a man can be about it. He said no matter what you do or how many boats you have or how much boom, if there is an occurance like this its gonna catch you with your pants down. He further went on toi state that’s why prevention is the only way to focus. These guys all said they would have never allowed a well design like this to make it to the field. I have heardno one in the United States disagree. The only thing even the enemies of drilling can come up with is an inadequate spill response plan used by all the operators.
I have a feeling that is about to get updated, but the things the operators knew about which was prevention, are being done differently with a different attitude at the other operators. If it weren’t so some one like you know who or others would have posted some kind of experience or evidence by now. The truth is once again, Prevention is the only solution. If there is any doubt err on the side of caution, not the side of risk. In the grand scheme of things, was BP’s game plan of save a buck before anything else worth it to them? In their minds the big picture for them is possibly. If they survive, it means they were granted dispensation to contimue operation, which will be construed by their management as acceptable necessary risk. How do I know this? Look at their track record across the spectrum of their company.
The way WE get back to work is to quit blaming all the industry for the ingrained outlaw mentality of one & punish the one to the maximum of the law. That sends the message to any other possible outlaw regime that they will pay the price for not erring on the side of caution. When that message is conveyed to all, it will resonate for generations to come & there will never be another MC 252 Macondo #1.[/QUOTE]
Along those same lines, compare the relative safety of the US Navy onboard nuclear power plants with those of the former Soviet Union. It appears that there has never been a serious accident with our guys, whereas the Ruskies have had accident after accident.
In his veto letter, the governor said the legislation would have hurt the state’s position in future litigation against BP PLC, the oil giant that leased the rig which exploded April 20 in the Gulf of Mexico, killing 11 workers and causing the disaster.
“This bill would allow BP and other parties with potential liability to the state to obtain information retained by any state agency responding to this tragic event,” Jindal wrote, saying such access could jeopardize the state’s position in seeking legal remedy for the spill’s damage.
Any litigants would have access to the records via discovery any way right? So is this position to prevent early access to these documents?
[QUOTE=OldHondoHand;38340]Along those same lines, compare the relative safety of the US Navy onboard nuclear power plants with those of the former Soviet Union. It appears that there has never been a serious accident with our guys, whereas the Ruskies have had accident after accident.
Attitude is everything.
I’m just sayin’.[/QUOTE]
Way back in post #4019 Pumpjack Hand copied in part of a document titled “The mechanics of blowouts and how to prevent them.” In this article it stated in part:
“GENERAL
Blowout prevention is not a matter of the number of valves in the preventer system, their arrangement, or the ability of people to operate them. Although these things — along with a number of techniques — are important, they are not the prime essential. Blowout prevention is a frame of mind existing throughout the drilling crew and supervisory staff. A determination on the part of the operator’s management to eliminate blowouts is far more valuable than the addition of several pieces of equipment to control blowouts.”
“… is a frame of mind existing throughout the … crew and supervisory staff.”
This is the perfect definition of a “Safety Culture.” I worked for the first 31 years of my working life for a company that embraced these policies, I thought that everyone worked that way, that it was Standard Operating Procedure. Then the market down turn came and the company decided we should see how things were done in the outside world. Since then I have had my eyes opened. One job I done did not have a “Safety Culture” in place. I did not want to quit but I was very thankful to be laid off before I had to witness somebody being killed.
Go back to your crews and develope a “Safety Culture” and maintain it!
The part of the document that Pumpjack Hand copied was interesting and informative, I wish I could get the entire document.
It applies to high-risk wells, which it defines as any offshore well within 200 miles of the US coast, including shallow water.
Cement bond logs required for all cement jobs.
BOPs must have 2 sets of blind shears and 2 sets of casing shear rams, spaced so that a tool or tool joint cannot obstruct both. Independent hydraulics and activation of each set of rams. ROV accessible control panels. Third party re-certification of the BOP every 6 months.
Real-time telemetry from the BOP control system to a secure location available to the Feds.
The well design must have 3 independently tested barriers across each flow path during completion or abandonment. 2 of the 3 barriers must be mechanical.
The CEO has to attest that
the BOP and other well control measures will prevent a blowout;
there is a spill response plan in case there is a blowout;
relief wells can start within 15 days and complete with 90 days when there is a blowout.
Civil penalties under the act up to $75,000 per day for failure to comply, rising to $150,000 per day in the case of “serious, irreperable or immediate” damage.
Criminal penalties for “knowing and willful” violation up to $10,000,000 and 10 years in prison for each day the violation persists.
Oh, and we are going to have a committee of independent scientists to make recommendations.