POTUS said we’d have Macondo 90% contained in a few weeks. Huh?? 90% of what??
CNN CHA CHING…bp agrees to a 3rd party fund, with Obama.
[QUOTE=New Orleans Lady;36547]Yes, General Russel Honore’…and he reported,he was just “waiting for the call”, and he was ready, and willing…CNN prob has his interview on their website.[/QUOTE]
Geez! I agree with you that this man could be the prefect guy for the job. He has a lot of respect from the local leaders who feel overwhelmed & wouldn’t hesitate a minute to make a call to give guys permission & direction. I can’t beleive his talents aren’t being used here.
[QUOTE=New Orleans Lady;36549]CNN CHA CHING…bp agrees to a 3rd party fund, with Obama.[/QUOTE]
Hold the phone on the Cha Ching part. It sounds as though it all stops with 20 billion. I’ve got a news flash. This has a ton of potential to go a lot higher than that.
And let’s just hope they don’t get the Ok to fund that 20 billion with bp stock certificates! On the other hand can you even imagine what a bunch of politicians could do with a $20 billion cash slush fund?
There is no cap on liability for this disaster for BP. This is a position that BP took early on, that they would wave the cap. (Hard not to think they did this when they figured out the company had acted with gross negligence) The fund is to have claims evaluated by a disinterested third party and paid out more quickly. That’s my understanding anyway.
Would anyone here mind explaining just what hot stabs are?
[QUOTE=tengineer;36486]Sorry, I guess I still remember them as British Petroleum. They can officially change their name to BP if they like but they are still headquartered in London and listed on their stock exchange. I guess if General Motors decided to officially change their name to GM it would make all the difference in the world. Now, all that aside there are plenty of US based investors in BP but the folks at the top of the food chain in the corporation are UK headquartered. The buck stops at the top.[/QUOTE]
Dream on!
Home made burger!
[QUOTE=john;36389]I agree with the Transocean part… every party (client, operator & MMS) should have well engineers that review the plan and ask hard questions when something is out of “norm”.
I don’t believe the Government should be responsible for anything but writing the rulebook and monitoring/investigating/penalizing noncompliance. But this is just how I tend to operate as a supervisor offshore… I gave my crew a long leash, how they do their job (as long as it’s safe) is their call, I verify their results, and I leave my door open for any (and all!) questions… but I yank in the leash hard if I find anyone lying or skirting the rules.[/QUOTE]
Thanks, Skipper. And if I may, everybody, here is an interesting article about who is in control of the rig (or in this case, who was NOT in control) where John is quoted:
John Konrad, a licensed captain who publishes the well-regarded maritime blog Gcaptain, and is consulting with Deepwater Horizon survivors, said oil rigs that constantly maneuver to maintain their station above a well should be under the command of a licensed sea captain.
Under Marshall Islands rules, the drilling manager was in command until the emergency struck. In practice, such dual command structures would not be accepted for U.S.-flagged operations like the Deepwater Horizon, experts say.
“Contrary to the generally recognized rules and traditions for this kind of vessel, on the Deepwater Horizon you had the guy who does the drilling plans able to make the call on safety,” Konrad said.
As the Deepwater Horizon captain testified to investigators last month, he conferred with the drilling manager before he attempted to disconnect the rig. By the time a crew member decided on his own to push the emergency disconnect, it was too late.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2012118639_oilcountries15.html
[QUOTE=dell;36489]I don’t think the airline metaphor holds–at all. Your industry seems too have a lot more inherent dangers and un- (or barely) controlled variables.
Airlines (absent aberrations like flocks of geese knocking out both engines on a 757) can be run, with care, in an inherently safe fashion. As for the unionization and financial aspects, I would point to an industry that I do know about: railroads, which are more unionized than airlines (and under the same labor statute and labor regulatory agency) and doing nicely from a financial perspective. Without care, without rules compliance, we’re potentially pretty dangerous too, hauling chemical trains through cities and see Chatsworth, CA; with care and with rules compliance, it is a different story.
I’m not sure, after watching all this, and reading this blog since Yves Smith (www.nakedcapitalism.com) referenced, actually, you (though she misunderstood your screen name), that there is a metaphor for what your industry is doing/attempting. It has sounded, on this blog, like North Sea care and practices (and regulatory regimes) are much sounder than what you are saying has been allowed to develop stateside, under the ‘care’ of MMS. (That’s why I am concerned about the regulatory aspect, BTW.)[/QUOTE]
Anyone studied pyysics. We are dealing with a hell of a lot more than air friction, crosswinds and engines that don conk out!
[QUOTE=New Orleans Lady;36494]Just got home from work, and after reading all your posts,for past 2days, I can t help but wish our mms, and all the supervisors on our rigs, would have your intent, to just do the right thing. As of now , I would not want any of my loved ones to work for bp. I will never buy their gas again. I wonder what Queen Elizabeth thinks of all this. I read she is a major stockholder. Bless Ya’ll[/QUOTE]
All the Operators have been cutting corners. It is endemic.
[QUOTE=alcor;36558]Anyone studied pyysics. We are dealing with a hell of a lot more than air friction, crosswinds and engines that don conk out![/QUOTE]
Me. Your industry is far more complex than aviation so it’s hard to draw parallels. The only parallel I saw was the way human factors, or how to set up the interface between humans and techonolgy so that humans can succeed, is taken into consideration.
[QUOTE=New Orleans Lady;36547]Yes, General Russel Honore’…and he reported,he was just “waiting for the call”, and he was ready, and willing…CNN prob has his interview on their website.[/QUOTE]
Listening to him breaking down plan to attack the oil offshore. I get fired up just hearing him talk. He definitely has a plan including command & control. This guy would have everybody working together in about 6 hours?
[QUOTE=alcor;36559]All the Operators have been cutting corners. It is endemic.[/QUOTE] Would you mind providing proof of such allegations ?
[QUOTE=Alf;36521]
In fact where was he during the time from 8pm that night? he should have been outside somewhere at pits/shakers/gumbo box rig floor etc. Just what was he doing??[/QUOTE]
The companyman, Sr. Toolpusher, OIM, Capt, C/M and many other supervisors were at a meeting with the TOI and BP exects from 7-9 (or 9:30). In fact, in both the OIM and Sr. TP’s testimonies, they say they were too busy escorting the execs, working on plans for the next well, etc… to visit the rig floor AT ALL that afternoon.
[QUOTE=HellSD;36506]Well you’re both saying basically the same thing, albeit with slightly different emphasis. You both agree that BP needs to be completely hammered to the fullest extent of their liability (whatever that proves to be). And you also both agree that where there is guilt (whether in the MMS, TO personnel, etc.), be it negligence, willful disregard of safety and/or the drilling plan, or people making decisions they lacked the knowledge to make, there must be consequences. I agree that legally apportioning the blame should be left to the courts. However, the more minds that peruse the data and the more information pertaining to this disaster that is released, the better experts of all stripes will be able to inform the courts. Beyond owning shares of O’n’G companies (401k or other investments) most judges understandably know very little about such operations. Therefor it is imperative that as much information be released as possible so that an analysis of the information outside of BP’s own can be presented in future trials.
Of course, I think you two are mostly agreeing now because it is becoming so damn obvious that BP fucked up egregiously. It’s like a murder trial (and it may well become one): if you pulled the trigger, you’re guilty, it doesn’t matter if you had help from the MMS or whoever. Once we know who looked the other way and who kept quiet, then we can throw the book at them next.
Also, Alcor, I’ve seen you a couple of times state or imply that the junk shot/top kill/other comically named attempts to shut in the well were in some way the product of pressure from Obama or the public and that they may have been, in fact, ill-advised and may have compromised the integrity of the casing/well-bore. That seems like a hell of a stretch. BP suggested those courses of action, BP backed those courses of action as being the most likely to end this disaster, and BP was best equipped (especially given their refusal to release more than a trickle of technical information) to know of the risks and potential consequences of those procedures. That’s 100% of them. Of course they were under pressure: due (apparently) to their negligence there were 20,000+ bpd flowing into the gulf. It’s Obama’s job to shove his boot up BP’s and Hayward’s ass. Had BP prepared a well-specific disaster response plan, which it appears they instead copy and pasted from other artic drilling operations, then under pressure they might have been able to do something more effective and less destructive. Again, this just ends up more and more on BP’s shoulders. Although whoever gave the Macondo well project a categorical exemption from review at the MMS needs to be thrown to the wolves.
Anyways, thanks again for y’alls continued analysis and insight. I want to emphasize that my vitriol is directed only towards those who ascend to positions of responsibility who fail to appreciate the gravity of their responsibility. I know first hand that risky work is sometimes only bearable by making light of the risks, and that that can push the knowledge that lives literally depend on your responsibility out of your mind if you aren’t vigilant. But it’s no excuse: if you can’t handle the risk and you can’t be counted on to assess risks and remember that you are responsible for lives and livelihoods, then you should get the hell out of dangerous work. Without fail, those people will cause accidents and will ultimately get people killed. If an industry doesn’t do everything in its power to eject those people, then it is doomed to disaster.
Alcor, you’ll probably say that’s the cowboy mentality that you’re talking about and CM1 you’ll probably call that the hazard of greed, but in this case, they’re two sides of the same coin. Anyways, I’ll quit rambling now as the oil and gas industry is totally outside of my area of expertise, so I want to ensure I don’t shove my foot too far into my mouth.[/QUOTE]
I suggested a long time ago that I thought the junk shot might work. No/one knew about glass plugs at that point.
I\m going to stick with this, the only way of killing this well is with a relief well to plug this gusher at source.
BP knew from the start that they had an issue and initially resorted to collection of oil. This has resumed although from a different trap.
MMS, knew that the only way to combat a blowout in the GOM was at source. The Government gave cleatrance for offshore operations to take place. That was Obama who signed up to it.
I hope he doesn overdo his power by bullying others to admint to his part in this disaster. He granted the Operators freedom to operate as they liked by not having a responsible MMS in place to oversee operations on the American Continental Shelf.
BP, will join him.
[QUOTE=alcor;36559]All the Operators have been cutting corners. It is endemic.[/QUOTE]
I don’t think it’s as much cutting corners as being over their heads. The problem is that deepwater is expanding at such an incredible rate that experience is being diluted. The DWH was luck in that most of the hands had been around a while, but I do know the Assistant Driller on Jason’s crew had been sent to Korea 2 weeks before and everyone below him were promoted. This means[B][I] the entire drill crew from Asst. Driller down were working at a level above their experience[/I][/B].
And it’s not just the rigs. People at BP, ABS, DNV, MI, HAL, SLB (just to name a few) have all been promoted so fast in the last 3 years that no one has the level of experience they use to. Listen, it use to take 30 years of offshore experience to become an OIM (Jimmy Harrell is an example of this) but right now I can think of a few deepwater OIM’s that are in their early 30’s… hell I know rig managers, companymen and BP office types this age too. THIS IS A PROBLEM.
It’s been happening for years, the best and brightest get pulled to the newbuilds in Singapore and Korea leaving the rest of us dealing with people that struggle with the basic competencies of their jobs.
[QUOTE=Corky;36473]It doesn’t seem that long ago that the sight of an inbound chopper carrying the MMS inspector had everyone worried about whether any INCs (Incidents Of non-Compliance) would be written and how much money the associated fines would be. I haven’t even heard anyone discussing INCs in the last few years.[/QUOTE]
This makes me laugh and cringe at myself. Years ago, I had the job of Dispatcher on a drilling/production Rig in the Pacific. I was very young and inexperienced in the Patch and when I got the call from an inbound USGS chopper that was headed our way to land, I told them, sorry, the helipad is occupied at the time. They were welcome to sit down on a nearby facility until we cleared the deck. Boy, when the Supe found out what I did, he all but blew a neck vein, and had to do some serious damage control with the guys from the agency. I wasn’t run off, but from then on, I ALWAYS gave priority to their flights.
[QUOTE=company man 1;36536]I have a polling question for fellow posters. Was anyone else as disappointed to extremely disappointed as I was in the POTUS talk last night ? [/QUOTE]
I started a new post with a poll asking forum members to: Rate Obama’s Oil Spill Speech
[QUOTE=cmjeff;36565]I don’t think it’s as much cutting corners as being over their heads. The problem is that deepwater is expanding at such an incredible rate that experience is being diluted. The DWH was luck in that most of the hands had been around a while, but I do know the Assistant Driller on Jason’s crew had been sent to Korea 2 weeks before and everyone below him were promoted. This means[B][I] the entire drill crew from Asst. Driller down were working at a level above their experience[/I][/B].
And it’s not just the rigs. People at BP, ABS, DNV, MI, HAL, SLB (just to name a few) have all been promoted so fast in the last 3 years that no one has the level of experience they use to. Listen, it use to take 30 years of offshore experience to become an OIM (Jimmy Harrell is an example of this) but right now I can think of a few deepwater OIM’s that are in their early 30’s… hell I know rig managers, companymen and BP office types this age too. THIS IS A PROBLEM.
It’s been happening for years, the best and brightest get pulled to the newbuilds in Singapore and Korea leaving the rest of us dealing with people that struggle with the basic competencies of their jobs.[/QUOTE]
Could that be because overseas, these guys have a lot more on rig decision making to do as opposed to this end do as your told because mother ship allways knows best?
Prob because these young MMS folks, had delusions of grandeur, while their palms were getting greased with “gifts, and the such… I dare to mention”